DocBauer

Buxton really showing something. (And this is good news, he needs the developmental time and is taking advantage of it). Kepler really coming around. Makes me giddy for a month or so from now in the midst of such a morose season. The rotation at Ft Myers is kick ass! I'm just not worried about promotions yet. I say that because I really feel it's only a couple more starts before we see it. I know we get impatient, but really, a coupleading more starts for Gonsalves and Stewart, and they are still at AA to begin June. That's still 3 months at Chattanooga.

Not going to disagree with you in principal. But there are many ways to construct a team, and a lineup. Sometimes a team has a lesser bat at a specific position, but have a stronger bat at a position that is well above average. Just an example, but when Puckett was a dominant offensive CF, most/many teams were still employing defensive, poorer hitting players at the same position. Mauer himself, in his prime, was WELL ABOVE the norm as a hitter at the catcher position. While 1B does, typically, have a more potent bat than Mauer, I have seen such All Star players as Grace, Joyner and Hernandez make major contributions without being a typical power threat. And this goes to a point made previously by Vanimal46 concerning waiting too long to move Joe elsewhere, what if Mauer had been moved to 1B sooner? What if he had been moved a year or two before his concussions and further physical battering behind the plate? (NOTE: it's probably pretty hard to move a Gold Glove, All Star, batting champ catcher from behind the plate) IF Mauer was at 1B, still hitting .300+ with a top OB%, 35+ doubles and 10-12 HR, he would still be a HUGE asset, even not being a true power threat. The problem isn't him playing 1B, it's just that, sadly, he isn't close to the hitter he once was.

First, can not LIKE Riverbrian's post enough! Not just for his comments, but for the thought and effort that went in to it. Sticking with the theme of the thread, I had my own ideas, though I will not be as detailed as River was. First, as stated previously by someone else, training camp invites are nothing to get bent about. Everyone makes them. Most never make it. Some help out at AAA, and occasionally you strike gold. But I will say I didn't understand the Quentin signing. Based on 2015, the readiness, or lack thereof initially, of prospects, the bullpen, and some OF issues, and catching depth, it seemed to me necessary moves were obvious. 1} I liked the idea of Hicks as a possible OF in some capacity; 4th OF, possible platoon partner with Arcia and/or Rosario. The Trae for Murphy surprised me, but didn't displease me. My solution was to sign a vet FA for 2016, or make a somewhat bigger move than Hicks/Murphh, possibly including Hicks. Murphy could still turn out OK, and I'm not going to bash the move at this point. Soto was one of the guys I had my eye on. 2} I didn't really get the Park move. But I was impressed by the initiative shown and the boldness of the move. While there were questions, I can't argue with adding talent overall. 3} I like Plouffe overall, and I get keeping him with questions about Park, but I still would have traded him, or packaged him, for a solid, experienced RHRP and inserted Sano at 3B. It's his position, he's the future, it's his time. 4} I was OK with the Abad signing. I was even OK with giving Fien another shot as a bounce back candidate that didn't cost much. But even with the aforementioned trade for a solid RHRP, I would have persued a pair of quality arms for the pen elsewhere. Some of the names include Storen, Clipard, and if I recall correctly, Soriano was out there and the guy I probably wanted most. When Bastardo dropped his demands down to 2 years, I would have jumped! (There were a couple other LHP available with questions I COULD have considered) These 2 FA signings, along with a trade acquisition, would deepen and solidify my pen and allow May to be a SP again. I wasn't worried about a couple 2 year contracts as they wouldn't kill payroll at all, and could lead to possible mid-season trade options if/when any of the kids proved ready. 5} I say again, trading Hicks was something I wasn't opposed to, I just would have signed a veteran catcher and included Hicks in a different deal. But in any scenario, with Hicks gone, Davis was perfect, to me, to play CF. At worst, he was depth whenever Buxton was proved ready. (Also tradeable) Next, I felt there several solid, veteran RH OF options available for depth and even platoon situations. Most were about 30-34. Some were coming off solid seasons. Some were solid players/hitters coming off a down year. But there were several options that wouldn't have cost a fortune by any means. 6} I would have traded Nolasco anyway, anyhow. Pick up a bunch of salary, include a decent lower level prospect, whatever. It was time for both parties to move on. 1 bullpen arm via trade, 2 via FA, 1 catcher-probably a FA, and 2 FA OF. This would have deepened the pen, shorn up the catcher spot, and created some depth and various platoon/rotation possibilities. Any and all of these could be traded at any point when a prospect was ready to take their place. INITIAL OF: Rosario, Davis, Arcia and FA. Santana would be a super utility. Buxton and Kepler in Rochester to begin the year. Again, Hicks COULD have been an option here. INITIAL INFIELD: Sano, Escobar, Dozier, Mauer, Park and Nunez. Vargas would have been a 1B/DH option initially. He got off to a poor start this season, but has looked better as of late. Arcia also could be a DH option. INITIAL CATCHER: Suzuki and the FA we signed. INITIAL ROTATION: Santana, Hughes, Gibson, Duffey and May. AAA would have Berrios, Meyer, Rogers, Wheeler and Dean all available. (No more fodder) INITIAL BULLPEN: Perkins, FARHRP, FALHRP, trade RHRP, Jepsen, Abad, Pressly-Tonkin-Fien. World beaters? No. But a team that made sense, IMO, augmenting the team that finished 2015 with a winning record. A team that could play, compete and win. Injuries and downright poor performance would still not make this a winning team. But I dare say it would have been a more complete, deeper roster than what we have at this point.

While it's an interesting topic, and one that I believe is worth considering, as has been stated, there is still way too much season to play to make a real determination. I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility, despite negative naysayer opinions, that Ryan could decide it's time to move on. (Possibly nudged by Jim Pohlad, if he cares and is paying attention to general populous opinion, press, fans, etc, concerning the handling of the team this year, and the total losing 5 out of 6 seasons) This would obviously play a huge factor. That being said, we're I to speculate at this time, I would suspect Plouffe is gone, unless Mauer steps aside. (I still think Plouffe is traded this year) Sano is just not on OF. He has shown he can play 3B, at least adequately, and it's where he should be. I would suspect the Twins will do what they should have done this off season, and sign an actual, decent, viable ML OF for depth and insurance. Somehow, someway, Nolasco will be gone. Santana and Hughes could simply prove too difficult to trade, though Santana probably does posses some actual value. Right nkw, Hughes doesnt. You are stuck with him and his contract, either as a starter or reliever, unless you just suck it up and eat his contract. NOTE: Shold the Twins actually be so bold as to eat any contracts, said replacements would be making minimum salaries for the first few seasons. Let us also assume the Twins, in a lost season, DO promote and play all the kids come July, or August 1st at the latest. OF: Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, FA, possibly Arcia INF: Sano, Escobar, Dozier, Park/Mauer with Nunez and Polanco. C: FA, Murphy or Centeno SP: Santana, Gibson, Duffey, Berrios, Hughes RP: Chargois, Perkins, Abad, May, and 3 more that is almost impossible to predict that could include Tonkin, Pressly, maybe Hughes here instead, maybe Burdi, and whoever else you want to audition. Call me crazy if you will, but I'd almost rather trade Dozier and keep Santana for what he should be, an OK utility guy.

I agree it's a lot of money. But he's also made gobs of money to this point. From my general understanding, he's never been on to live high on the hog. I'm sure he's set for life. When I refer to health, it seems that no longer being behind the plate should help prevent additional aches and pains. But I am referring to his concussion issues. With Koski and Morneau we've seen concussions happen just from playing the game in a normal fashion. With a young family, financially set, a third year of disappointing performance, possibly regressing further...that is yet to be determined...I don't think to absurd to think he would decide to walk away. Especially if the Twins did something to offset any financial "loss" he would incure. And let's be realistic simply from a baseball sense, Mauer's value is to the Twins and the Twins alone. We're he, in theory, suddenly on the market via trade or an outright release, no longer an All Star or Gold Glove catcher, what team would be willing to pick him up as a poor hitting no power 1B?

I don't think the Twins would ever flat out cut Mauer. But I have maintained that after the past two seasons, should he perform the same this year, or further regress, he may simply decide it's time to move on with his life and his family and hopefully continued good health, (no further injuries or concussions) There is a lot of pride in a top athlete. But failure to perform as you have in the past, as you wish you still could, can wear on a player. Not all players hold on and scratch and claw until it's over. I wonder, would the Twins nudge him that direction as well? I have maintained he could be offered deffered money, or a role with the organization...say a personal services contract...that would offset any lost income from retiring. I know he's still got a couple big financial years ahead, but he's also made a bunch, is set for life, has a young family, and there is the whole pride issue of "I can't do it any more". I was hopeful he would rebound in his 3rd year post concussion. He's turned in to a solid 1B, and he's a veteran LH bat in a lineup that leans right. If he could recapture even some of his past ability, hit .280 ish with a quality OB%, doubles, a few HR and some clutch hitting. Maybe he still will. But sadly, it's just not looking that way right now.

Precisely. And lest we forget, while he has been mostly lights and dominant, he missed 2 full seasons due to injury and recovery, yes? He may be a natural, but he's also really just getting his feet wet in pro ball. Really, he's pretty much on the fast track right now. I'm not going to slam the Twins on this one.

He was my top choice for a minor league player to "click" this season. I felt he'd be in Rochester all season...barring something unusual...and would get a chance to play every day and really get back in form. Right now, I'm looking a little less stupid daily.

So what happens if Verlander, suddenly much put out, uncorks a wild pitch and Rosario scores from the uncovered, unprotected base he just stole? It would only be one more run...but still...at the time you don't know what is going to happen. Does it ignite the team? Does Rosario then become an aggressive hero for a day?

If this continues, my gut says he may just walk away on his own. Three straight seasons where he is a shell of himself? Plus his young family and future health to consider? It also wouldn't surprise me if the Twins FO "took care" of him with some deferred money or spot with the organization in some capacity.

First...same as everyone else, why aren't the kids playing when up? What...we're going to win something??? Second, I'm still wondering why Berrios didn't just stay up for another 2 starts before Gibson comes back. (theoretically)

Another question....and yes, I'm being serious....could Vargas be a DH next year with Park as the 1B? What about Mauer you ask? After the past 2 seasons and the onset of May, that is a very, very interesting question no doubt.

LeBlanc needs to be packing for Ft Myers.

IMO, if I were an executive pospect, I would view the Twins job as an exciting opportunity. I would be coming over to run a team that had one of the best facilities in all of baseball, one of the stronger milb systems around, and one of the best milb/ST facilities in Ft Myers.

No excuse for a poor season, wild AB and missed plays in the OF or a really bad day today. But to yank him for being aggressive in this situation is ridiculous. He has excellent spa Eed and there was nobody covering 3B. What if Verlander threw the balL away? What if they changed the shift? What if Verlander got frustrated and uncorked a wild pitch? Yes, the Twins lost yet again. And one more run wou,don't have ultimately done anything for the final outcome. But who knew that at the time? It actually sounds like a smart play to me.

I won't dismiss this thought at all. You're right, of course, there is still a math situation in regard to budgeting, whether said budget is $120M or $200M. But there is almost an obsession that his contract single-handedly handcuffs the team, and I just think that's true. I wrote before the season that I wondered if Mauer had another season like the past two, or even regreased further, considering pride, age, his family, lack of effectiveness, if he himse,f might just decide it was time to walk away. Especially if the Twins made it worthwhile by deferring some money, or signing him a personal services contract or something of that nature.

At this point, the Twins either have to DL him to build up his shoulder, or just accept his current limitations and move him to the pen. He has some experience and past success there. He won't have to pitch near as many innings, and as such, perhaps his velocity will uptick slightly. This could also lead to May being stretched back out for the rotation.

The issue is still not Mauer's contract! The unfortunate, almost comedic, tragedy is Mauer's FA season came after the best year of his career. But let's say that season was more like his traditional production seasons and gold glove defense and he signed for $17-18M instead. It would still be considered a bad contract in today's debates. But who had a fully functional crystal ball that could see injury and especially concussions suddenly reducing his game the way it has and forcing him from behind the plate? Anyone? The Twins have been absolutely blasted for letting Mauer walk even if he had a "normal" season. If he was hitting the way he has the past couple of seasons while still playing a quality catcher position, he might still be considered overpaid, but at least we wouldn't have a hole behind the plate, and his production would still be better than most. We're talking about unfortunate circumstances bordering on a baseball "tragedy" for lack of a better term. The point should be, what happens next?

In the long run this is probably best for him at this time, IMO. He showed natural hitting ability and talent throughout his milb career, including part of a season at AA. Then game the disappointing 2014 season after his suspension, which I'm sure threward off his year. He pretty much bypassed AAA completely, save for a few games, before his promotion to the Twins last year. He really had a pretty great season offensively and defensively, and obviously flashed some big potential. Despite some possible regression this year, I really thought he'd also grow in a few areas. Never a walk machine, hetc hit well in the minors and his OB% was never bad. But things have obviously not worked out this season thus far. I reflect on Seth's recent plan that included this very thing happening, and I really hope the Twins have similar thoughts; get Rosario, Buxton and Kepler, along with ktners, then bring them up enmasse.

The extension for Hughes, IMO, wasn't/isn't really the issue. Its really more the timing of it. He has long been a highly respected talent with a lot of potential. In his days with the Yankees, he certainly had his ups and downs with consistency. When he got the Twins, it seemed as though talent and potential were coming together, and seemingly at the right age, And the way he pitched, he certainly was deserving of the new contract. The problem is the new contract was based on the one "change of scenery" year in Minnesota, and not his career. The Twins sold themselves high on Hughes.l

I can't count how many likes I clicked in this thread, and on both sides of the arguement. There really are 2 completely different sides to Berrios and his going down at this time. And honestlu, each side has very valid points. I'm, late to the party on this thread despite the day off. I'm sick and tired of the way the youngsters have been jersey around and yo-yo'd this season, as well as how they've been handled when they have been up. I know that at the ML level you are attempting to win, but in a lost season, does a game or two really matter that much in future context of player development when a prospect is up? Couldn't Kepler, when he was up, Polanco up again, even if they don't perform overly well, take something back with them to AAA as a further learning experience when they come back again? That being said, Berrios clearly has the talent to succeed. He made some nice pitches and he got something called a "strikeout" that I'm not overly familiar with. (I kid....I kid) But I do think he may be pressing. His control in ST was not good. His control in his milb starts wasn't all that great, not has it been all that great in his ML starts. I honestly do get sending him back down temporarily to get in a groove. But there are bound to be growing pains! I would have let him know that bad days happen, (they've happened a lot this season), and I would have given him another start, at least, possibly with an extra day, before I sent him down. It's great that Dean, or Rogers gets a turn, but what does that ultimately do for the future of the franchise? Nothing. They would be much better served giving Berrios another start or two to see how he responded.

I respect your opinion. Part of my post was the fact that we all share different ideas and perspectives for different reasons. Also, living geographically closer to the situation offers different information and perspective as to the owners, who they are, their care and process, etc. You are correct, if I interpret your post correctly, that a franchise owner could still make money...most of the time probably...without really caring about his product. However, I would argue a pair of counter points, while knowing nothing of the Pohlad's really. 1} For a family worth billions, (still, right?), the Twins are not going to be some huge golden investment in comparison to their other wealth. Apathy could be an issue, but I don't see them, or any other modern day sports owner, hitching his financial wagon to his team and deliberately penny pinching every dollar for his huge assets. 2} Even if it WAS the goal of the Pohlad's to milk the franchise for profit, wouldn't a better team, a better more exciting product bring a better return than a boring, losing one in which there was much negative publicity and dwindling attendance and merchandise sales? I think the biggest problem with the Pohlad's not making changes would be one of fear. Fear of change and fear of the unknown. "We've always done it this way" thinking.

My take is this, I think this is a better version of the Murphy signing. While I am not saying I like it or not, or that it's smart or not, it should not take away from Buxton, Walker, Kepler or even Vargas getting AB. 3 OF spots, 1B and DH are all available. This could be an attempt to find another option, that hopefully doesn't completely suck, in order for a Rosario demotion to get AAA time with Buxton and Kepler and get himself right. I don't know that he's even capable, or not, OT to what degree, of actually helping the Twins in any way. BUT, if your plan is to at least temporarily play Rosario, Buxton and Kepler at Rochester before coming back up in the next month or so. Look, we're already losing and having a bad season. I don't like it either. But if a month or two of Arcia getting consistent playing time, Mastroianni, Santana all over the place, Grossman, and Sano in the OF until a permanent move back to 3B would actually be part of a plan until moving the youngsters back up in mass, it might not be the world's worst idea.

While there is concern as to actually having a ML future with the Twins, (maybe if Mauer does regress and retire to be with family?), Vargas was my top milb player to click this season. After his poor start, he has been much better as of late. There is still a lot of season left. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he ends up with some impressive numbers.

I read Seth's post twice now, everyone's rebuttles, and Seth's counter rebuttles, and mulled everything over in my head. And Platoon's post sort of sums up a lot of sentiments being expressed here. To reiterate: 1} You can throw everyone out there to play, take their lumps, hope they don't get overwhelmed or lose confidence or lose mechanics because they are overwhelmed and trying too hard. This practice has been done successfully, or somewhat successfully, before, though not always. 2} Platoon is also right that what the Twins are doing now is an odd my and match of youth and veterans, some/many of whom don't fit in the teams long term plans, and brining up kids to sit. This clearly is not working. 3} You can do what Seth suggests and take a step back, take a pause, and make sure the youngsters are playing daily at Rochester, (not saying there aren't AA promotions that shouldn't take place and fringe roster guys to move there either), get guys in a successful groove before bringing them up, probably in several bulk moves. August 1st doesn't have to be the deadline, it's just an example of a deadline. Hopefully, some of the struggling veteran players will play at least well enough to assist in some trade value. Others, you may to just ditch and eat their contracts entirely. Is Seth's proposed plan ideal? He himself states he doesn't know. But it IS a plan. There IS a logic behind it, and a destination of events; building up the kids, many of whom have limited AAA still, as well as providing opportunity to formulate some exit strategies for the veterans that have to go. All things being equal in a lost season, I'd be in favor of this plan because, again, at least it is a plan. Taking the emotion out of it, it is a plan with a calculation behind it because right now, that's a hell of a lot more than what is currently taking place.