DocBauer

You know, it's funny to me when I read this because about a year, or so, ago I wrote a piece that was partially tongue-in-cheek but more than half serious, about the demise of the Twins winning teams after the departure of Hunter. Mostly, it detailed how his loss to the Angels in FA created a chain reaction to various moves made by the Twins to compensate and replace him in the lineup and field. Actually, patting myself on the back, some of my arguements held some validity. But it was never about his locker room presence. I have a very hard time believing a lack of Hunter's presence is causing the downfal, of the 2016 Twins, mostly because the 2015 Twins, in truth, we're about a .500 team with the exception of the month of May. Still, who wouldn't take a .500 club at this point? BUT, I do think your arguement does have some validity to it, whether it is a "Hunter" factor or not. I do believe the construction of a team is more than just pure physical talent and coaching. Sometimes, thereally is a chemistry and/or attitude factor than can make a difference. Sometimes it is a work ethic created to get guys to go the extra mile. Sometimes it's as simple as keeping guys loose game to game so they don't too wrapped up in W-L records and maintain an even keel approach. I will neither exalt nor demean Hunter's presence on the 2015 team, nor his lack of presence on this year's team. But when you stop for a moment to examine the Twins WS teams and additional winning/playoff teams, there did seem to be a strong head man in charge, Kelly and Gardy, and guys on the team that had a sense of of bulldog, competitiveness and leadership in them. I'm just not sure this team has that right now. I don't know if it's Molitor, the players themselves, or poor roster construction, but there seems to be an "it" factor missing that gives a competitive team an edge.

Late the party here as I clicked on the radio to hear Berrios was gone after 2/3 of an inning and the Twins were down a couple runs. (Cough) I immediately turned the station after a few choice adult words. I decided to check the scoreboard, as there is definitely a masochistic part of me, to see how bad t really was, and to see if, at the very least, SOMEONE had done something good tonight. I tuned in just in time to see Park score the 8th Twins run to tie the game. A couple points: * I like the lineup construction better tonight, though I have a hard time not seeing Polanco back in the lineup tonight. * Hats off to the team for not giving up and fighting back. * Dean...WOW...that was actually a quality performance from a rookie in a tough situation. But I would like to apologize to everyone out there in Twins land ands my tuning in to watch the remainder of the game obviously resulted in the pair of solo HR that will inevitably lose the game for us. I'm sorry. A final note, was the umpiring that bad the entire game?

As would I. However, missing a couple days with the shoulder fatigue and the way he sat on the bench in Minnesota before getting a short night in his start, (after the Twins announced there was no pitch limit on him), I'd rather see him get a few starts in Rochester and get in a groove again and then come up.

Good for Herrmann. He was a guy I always had high hopes for. No telling how good he could have been, but I always thought he was hurt by riding that Rochester - Twins train too often. There needs to be some serious pitching prospect promotions come June 1st, if not earlier.

Yes to trading Plouffe. I'm still not certain on Dozier, but I've been warming to it. The problem with your middle infield is were still not sure what we have in Polanco. I really like his potential, he needs to play, and he should be playing. If he could actually play SS, that would be great. Further, if he moves to 2B, we still have Escobar and Nunez for SS and utility, (also Santana to fit in here and there) I'm just nervous about trading Dozier until we actually get to see more of Polanco at the ML level. If Ryan doesn't retire, or get "urged" to retire, I like the idea of a baseball executive above him to oversee things. Which is why I wouldn't fire any coaches right away. Let this overseer make those decisions. But I'm not sure I see this happening. I think it would be more likely the Twins ownership would dismiss TR, or urge his stepping down, rather than place someone above him.

The value of what we have to sell is yet to be determined based on their individual productions, as well as other team's needs or unforseen urgencies. But I would think a decent catching prospect, or possibly even a solid veteran bench catcher to supplant Suzuki wouldn't be the worst idea in the world. Especially if he can hit from the left side. Nothing wrong with another quality bullpen arm that is proven or a strong up and comer. Again, especially if he throws from the left side. Why not just a good, solid, all around spare part OF that hits righty to help the bench?

Great article...which I stated in the original blog posting...and some great points made here. I also agree Arcia should be kept. I also like Rosario going down for a while. It's best for he and the Twins both in the long run. Dozier has been hitting better. Dozier is a really nice ballplayer despite some streaky-ness. (there have been endless debates here on TD about how pronounced his split seasons have truly been-don't need to rehash) And I don't know that trading Dozier is part of the solution. But then again, if he could bring in, or help bring in, a ballplayer of value, and with Polanco's potential, I could see doing it. What stinks is, despite some losing and disappointing seasons, despite this horrific start to this season, we really need patience right now. We need patience for Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Meyer, Chargois, etc to get some more time in. I like July 1st as a good target date for promotions. However, the FO has to eat some money, toss in a lower level prospect or two, but do what is necessary to create the roster openings for these youngsters.

Smart post. As usual. Going to disagree with a few of your points, however. I would play Arcia, absolutely. The problem is playing him simultaneously with Sano in the OF. Ugh! But we are way past the point of "what the FO SHOULD HAVE DONE in the offseason". But I don't know that I'd trade him. Let's say by August we have Buxton, Kepler and maybe Rosario in the OF. You have 3 young, talented OF who can play all 3 OF spots, and potentially, offer good to excellent defense. (I know Rosario is struggling, but it doesn't diminish he ability or potential) There is still room for a successful Arcia as a corner OF/DH. I wouldn't trade Polanco either. I don't know if there is a prospect in the Twins system that has been more poorly handled than Polanco. This kid has some tremendous potential as a hitter, and the athleticism to play quality defense SOMEWHERE, even if it's not at SS. But milb errors are not always an indication of ability or potential. He should be playing EVERY SINGLE DAY at SS or 2B. Let him learn, grow, and see what you have. I'm not advocating a trade of Dozief, who I like a ton, has started to rebound, and I believe is still a quality ballplayer. But maybe, his trade could be smart for the future of the team with Polanco taking over if he just can't handle SS daily. Rosario should go down for a time. But what are your options at this time if you are smart and give Buxton and Kepler at Rochester for another month or so? (Which you should do) You start Arcia and Sano and Santana with Mastroianni off the bench? Do you put Nunez in the OF? Or Polanco, which would be a huge mistake? Ugh! I do think Meyer and Chargois should be brought up. But, getting real for a moment, no matter how talented Shaggy is, or how good he's looked thus far, he's missed almost two full seasons before this one. I think you just have to give him some AAA time before you bring him up. Meyer? OMG, the second worse treated prospect in the system. He absolutely should have had a 2014 September promotion. (Not sure it would have affected his disappointing 2015 season or not) But after a really nice and encouragING start to the season, the Twins have handled him horribly with his splinter bench time and quick hook in his only start after bringing out the tweezers. I have even advocated a 6 man rotation, including May, and how it could be done, but at this point, he needs to be allowed to succeed at Rochester again. Lastly, Hughes to the bullpen and Nolasco gone via any way possible. (Unless you would move him to the pen as well) What really stinks is, Hughes and Nolasco to the bullpen would be a huge waste of tied up contracts...BUT...if the two of them would embrace the opportunity, they could both, potentially, do very well there. Oh, put Sano at 3B permanently! Let him grow, learn and adjust. He CAN play the position. And he will only get better. He doesn't have to be a Gold Glover to be an asset there.

Wow! Totally forgot about Brad Havens. Probably with good reason. Lol

An interesting idea to take a poor season, step back for a moment from all the other more immediate discussions, to offer up a darkly interesting and somewhat humorous post. Being 50, and a Twins follower for 45 years, I will have to reflect back and possibly offer up some aditiiona options, but two come to mind immediately: I know you said no RP at this point, but Ron Davis in 1984 with 14 blown saves would have to be the choice there...probably. Terry Felton, in 1982, WAS a SP, but got pulled from the rotation and was moved to the bulpen. So I'm not sure exactly how you would qualify his 0-13 record...SP or RP.

A very interesting article. To be honest, no offense Seth, but the comments left here are even more interesting and pointed than the article itself. And I believe Seth is correct, and I don't think he is correct with any sort of excuses or Twins optomism. He clearly states in the last line that the plan hasn't worked to this point. Bingo. IMO, Ryan's plan began with two key points: 1} Try to keep the team afloat, if possible, by trying to maintain some of the Metrodome days. That is, try to assemble a team that could compete on a budget. Some call it dumpster diving. But point #2...which I will get to in a moment...was going to take time. In the meantime, he was hoping for some short term and limited contracts to assemble teams that wouldn't stink, and offer at least some optomism for the fans and put butts in the Target Field seats. And if we're being totally honest, in years past, TR did find some nice pieces to help make teams work. Of course, this plan failed pretty miserably with 4 90 loss seasons. But again, to be fair, and I know it's an old and tired refrain, but one season was washed out due to injury, and the next was a tweaked roster that most felt had a run in it. 2} Ryan was clearly looking to rebuild the milb system, as Seth stated, and is so clearly obvious that we all know it to be true. NOTE: I am not referencing questionable use of young players coming up and not playing, or sticking around long enough. And for the most part, this has been successful. The Twins have a deep and talented farm system. There has been a change to power arms, and some interesting statistics from last year...no, I don't have them readily available...was that virtually all 4 full season milb pitching staffs ranked at or near the top of their leagues in SO and quality starts, along with other quality numbers/rankings. But the problem is, no matter how badly we all want these young prospects up and playing, they absolutely need milb time and experience to hone their skills until they are ready. And even then, it's not unexpected to see growing pains. And while it is not an excuse, when your top two prospects, two of the best in all of baseball, miss a full season or most of one, it sets the timetable back. Where the mistake was made, again in IMO, was banking too quickly on these youngsters. The prime examples being CF and the bullpen. Hicks may have been an athletic talent that was never going to work, we may never know, but to bank on him jumping from AA as a still raw talent straight to the ML was a huge miss of the dartboard. Worse, there was no other viable option. And this error has continued for 3 seasons now! Same with the pen, for the past 2 seasons, where Ryan tried to get cute, find needles in the haystack...which he had done in the past...and bank on his young RP power arms to begin to contribute. But again, it was a short-sighted and long shot gamble. I don't know if he was impatient or out foxed himself, but again, incorrect and short-sighted. It would be trite and somewhat inaccurate to simply say, "better late than never" in regard to the recent moves to shuffle the roster. The experiences of 2014 and 2015 should have brought about a plan of attack that, right now, just looks like a hot mess: * No return of the talented May to the rotation to see what he could truly be capable of because... * No quality bullpen acquisitions to allow May to move, and protect against Perkins and Jepsen regressing. * No CF option as a fall back to allow Buxton more time. * No decent, veteran OF signed...and there many possibilities available...to work with Arcia, protect regression from Rosario, and offer up options for the Sano OF experiment, especially since he has shown he can play 3B. So now we have a team that simply doesn't mesh or work well together. This team is a mix of youth and experience to be sure. And what is so damn frustrating is that, for the most part, neither the young players or the veterans are performing. This team for 2016 was not expected to be world beaters. And there were gross mistakes of inactivity that did/didn't take place. Even still, this team just shouldn't be this bad! As Linus stated early in this thread, any age factor is overblown. A quality, competitive team is desired. And if this team was 10 games over .500 with a primary core of 30-33 yo players, nobody would care, and we'd have a whole lot less to talk about. No, the problem isn't age. The problem is getting from point A to point B...or 1 to 2...without a stable, planned bridge to get there. Right now, the Twins are crossing over a vine and rotted wood bridge that you would see in an Indiana Jones movie.

I really like this. It's a frustrated, but really smart post. I suppose it's easy to say the smart plans are the ones that work. But there is truth as well as fiction involved. Having a plan and following it is great, and will hopefully pay off in the long run. Having no plan almost guarantees no success. But not every plan works for every team, to state the obvious. Some teams simply have more money to work with and can augment their rosters with big FA signings, extensions, taking on trade dollars, etc. Much like the Cubs example mentioned here, or the Yankees, who actually achieved success when they finally kept and promoted their own and supplemented with big paydays. (Sort of like the Cubs example) I am not defending Ryan, though at times I believe I see where he is going and what plan he has, but I feel that if he is guilty of anything, it's not making a strong enough commitment in any one direction. Given a chance to spend real money, he's made unprecedented moves in the FA pool to augment the team, try to keep them winning, to some degree, rather than embrace all out "rebuild", a word and option we know he dislikes. Part of me gets that, understands it, and even appreciates it as a fan. But even as you try to play the FA game, to keep your head above water, and put a better product on the field while waiting for the youngsters to come up, you also can't ignore short comings on the roster, and gamble that these players will leapfrog AAA and leap directly to the majors to provide a boost. CF for three years and the bullpen for two are prime examples. Nolasco didn't really work out. It happens. Santana and Hughes weren't bad signings, nor was Suzuki. But extending Hughes and Suzuki were big mistakes. Not adding an OF or two to bridge the gap, or adding to the bullpen with pieces that wouldn't break you, and could maybe later be traded, we're also big mistakes. I think he's allowed himself to be caught between trying to be competitive and the dreaded "R" word, and now the Twins are flailing and failing this season somewhere in between.

I agree with the first part of the sentiment, but not the second portion. I absolutely agree that it is time, or will email time, to bring in new blood and new ideas. The Target corporation example is a great one. After a time, not necessarily through the fault of anyone, ideas and approachespecially become stale. Much like with the manager or head coach of any pro franchise, no matter how successful, eventually ideas become outmoded and voices become more difficult to listen to. Just as players themselves need to be replaced at times, so do coaches or FO personnel. Back in the day, the previously mentioned Andy McPhail was a tremendous example of this for the Twins. So I agree with new blood. I don't know, necessarily, if that is in the GM spot or president of operations. And I also agree with said new blood making various decisions as to who stays and who goes, who fits, and who doesnt. But, IMO, it's overreaction to call for a complete house cleaning just for the sake thereof. St Peter and Antony are prime examples. I've never seen the ad with the cancer patient, and I strongly disagreed with his comments in regard to the 25th man on the roster comment, as well as his "the Twins Way was a media creation" comments. Both were limited in thought and rather assanine, I thought. All roster spots are important, and the proverbial "Twins Way" was about smart and well-rounded baseball. But I can't look at past successes and Target Field and say he needs to automatically go. Same with Antony. He seems respected and knowledgeable in his daily functiomns, but that doesn't mean he should be a strong GM. He was acting GM previously for a few months. A poor performing team at that time shouldn't define whether or not he's a capable assistant. It seems our past few drafts have brought high quality. There has been a noticeable shift in the organization in a more power pitching approach. The last couple of seasons, most of the Twins milb clubs have ranked near the top of their respective divisions in quality starts, SO's, etc. Just because the vast majority of the Twins top 30-ish prospects haven't reached the majors yet shouldn't be an indictment to the scouting department or those running the milb show. We've all been impatient and extremely eager to see the kids reach the Show. Some of them have, some have had cups of coffee, some are getting really close to debuting or "sticking", some appear ready or close to AAA and AA advancement. We can argue about rate of promotion, or some sitting on the Twins bench, and with sound reasoning, but to just "wish" them al, to the ML at a super quick pace is not practical. In short, new blood is a definate, but cleaning house for the sake of doing so is baby out with the bathwater IMO.

I've got to say, and it's just a hunch and no condemnation to Turner or his potential, but I also have had a feeling that Garver would be the best overall player of the two and become the starter.

No matter how terrible, disappointing or gut - wrenching this season has been, I still keep envisioning an Aug. 1st lineup with Buxton in CF, Kepler in RF, Sano at 3B, Arcia/Rosario in LF, Polanco in the middle infield, Murphy as the primary C after his AAA success and promotion, and Berrios starting the game.

I agree 100%. And part of that process is to let guys like Buxton and Kepler every single game and AB they can at Rochester. It's also the reason I wasn't too upset by the Mastroianni promotion. It's not the option I'd like to have, and I don't think I'd be starting him, but, I'd rather him in the short term. But the other part of making this happen is opportunity. And that comes from doing things differently than before. We can lament all we want about past business, or this offseason...and with good reason in some instances. ..but whats important is how business is done going forward. Some of the recent options and waiver wire moved allow for said change. Will it be maintained? It has to for the team to move forward. That's going to mean a few tradex, the eating or partial eating of some contracts, and possibly the inclusion of some lower level prospects as well. But it's the only way you make room for Berrios and Duffey, or May, etc., plus maybe acquire another C or RP. BTW...I still want May in the rotation as well. But the way things are set up at the moment, Meyer off to a good start and minting it is probably the more likely option.

I don't get the whole Herrmann for Palka deal. Palka is no baby, but he's also not old or some milb journeyman. It appears he can hit, hit with power, and run some too. And he's traded for an athletic backup catcher who just never seemed to get over the hump?

Agree it's a very well thought out point of view. But I also disagree on Murphy. He's talented enough and young enough that I don't think he should be so easily dismissed. I don't think he's been handled right. (Surprise!) How do you trade for a young catcher and then not play him? Suzuki is not part of the future, offers no potential, and is almost certainly gone after this year. Does he really offer so much for a struggling team that he has to play daily over Murphy? Despite no obvious option at AAA, thank you TR for that, I'd rather see Murphy play every day at Rochester for a time to find himself again. Play him or help him! Keep starting Berrios and Duffey. Move Nolasco for SOMETHING, even if you trade money and a low level prospect to do so. Make room! Fien and Milone is a good first start. If you can't find a market for Plouffe, or Plouffe and a prospect, then give him, and Mauer and Park, an OF glove and find someone who can play a less than horrible RF so Sano can concentrate on 3B primarily. Whether he ever turns in to a good/great 3B is irrelevant. He's solid there. Repeating myself, lose Nolasco to make room, and by mid season at the latest, prepare to run with Buxton, Kepler, Polanco, maybe Meyer, and a couple young RP like Chargois and maybe even Boshers. (?) There is a nucleus in place. Build on it!

Looking past my disappointment, bordering on disgust at this point that we didn't either acquire another strong arm for the pen last year, or this off season, whereby May could stick in the rotation, at this point he should get a shot to close. He has the best stuff and potential in the pen at this point. Maybe he isn't built for it and won't embrace it, but at this point, really, what do you have to lose? Let's either admit the mistake of removing a potentially solid SP arm from the rotation and send him down to stretch out as we remove Milone, and potentially/eventually Nolasco and...fingers crossed somebody else named Hughes or Santana, (unless Hughes goes to the pen )...or let him audition for the closer job.

The top five starting pitchers? ☺

Yes it was. His first couple of starts, as I recall, weren't very impressive, though his last couple were much better. And he followed it up next season with a few so-so starts before getting better and better before he got moved to the pen since we had nobody else. (UGH!) Gibson also didn't look very good initially. Then he had a pretty solid "rookie" season the next year. And an even better 2015. Berrios's first start was pretty mediocre. And guess what? He was better in his second start and actually got his first ML win. Viola was average at best to start his career. Johan Santana was a rule 5 stash player and bullpen option initially before he finally won a full time SP gig. Just saying.

Nice comments on Centeno. He did show flashes in ST. He is off to a solid start in Rochester. And he may be able to contribute at some point as he is now the Twins 3rd catcher, probably. But I don't think it divides the handling and loss of Hicks. I really wasn't sure what to expect from Park. In truth, I don't think anyone did. But we were all hopeful. There will be streaks I'm sure. But I've been impressed. I think he belongs and has been mostly impressive.

Chief, I agree he'll warrant another shot. I'd even bet on it. So I agree with you there. But I am going to respectfully disagree, for now, on Meyer's future. Really, any young pitcher will struggle with his stuff and command at various points. That's why the grow, learn and advance through the minors. And the simple truth is, longer, taller pitchers have seemingly always had a bit more of a struggle finding proper repitition. Despite a few lapses in control, Meyer made steady progress in his milb career, was considered a top 100 prospect just as recently as the conclusion of the 2014 season. And we all remember the raging debates as the Twins handling of him the second half, and late, in that season. The arguements raged back and forth from the Twins stating he needed to tweak his control a bit more, and the other side of the equation that he was ready and needed ML service time to continue to grow and develop. I am NOT rehashing this old arguement, just stating how highly he was regarded a year ago. Ish. Distracted, hurt, disappointed, grieving, whatever the issue (s) Meyer had a rough and very disappointing 2015, (despite a few solid stretches in the pen). Fast forward to this new year in which he got off to a strong start at Rochester, SSS or not, before coming up...then sitting on the bench when he probably could have gotten at least one more AAA start...before getting his first ML start, with splinters in his backside, and getting pulled with 2 outs when the Twins said he wasn't on any pitch count. He is not the first top prospect to have a disappointing season. He wouldn't be the first top prospect to learn, grow and rebound from such an experience. And I hope he does. And I hope he doesn't take this p**s poor handling recently in a negative fashion. I hope, if anything, it helps light a stronger fire under him. But with his previous track record, his ability and potential, his solid start to 2016, I simply can't view him as a RP candidate at this point.

That might be me you are referring to. And I think it's an important point. I'm not saying empty the minor leagues and just promote everyone. I think the time for an Astros-like move to do so, or what the Twins did in '82, is gone at this point. Part of the young nucleus has already arrived, and been arriving, for a couple of years now. But a 40 man roster doesn't mean you get to promote all your top prospects, while keeping your veterans, and suddenly get to play with a 40 man roster. Berrios is ready. Duffey too is probably ready, despite his rough ST. Meyer, hopefully, will take this latest cup of coffee as a learning experience, be even more determined to get back, and continue at Rochester where he left off. You arent, and cant, run with a 7 or 8 man rotation. So moves to the pen, eating some contract money, sweetening a trade with another player, whatever, you are going to have move out today for tomorrow.

Pretty much this. I did a nicely responded to, but somewhat quickly faded post referencing "blowing up" the roster, and when it should take place this season. And I feel we're making a lot of the same points again on here. Points that seem simplistic in the rather obviousness of their nature. If the team is not going to contend...and right now we're not even overly confident about a winning record...then the FO needs to make room for the future of this team. Nolasco and Milone, for example, are NOT part of the future of this team. It's not personal, it's just a fact. And at this point, or at some point this season, Meyer, Duffey and Berrios, for instance, will be pounding on and kicking in the door that they are ready, (or ready again) for their opportunity. Whether it means taking back a lower level, marginal prospect, throwing in some of the remaining contract dollars or something similar, guys have to be moved. You can't build up a milb system that is one of the best in baseball, keep them, (as in not trade them), and just never promote them.