Major League Ready

When they first signed Pelfey I have to admit I wondered why the heck they did not get a TO for 2014. Then, after considering it from Pelfrey's agent point of view. Why would you give a TO, especially at Pelfrey's age. If he does not perform the Twins don't resign him. If he continues on the path he is on for the rest of the year, someone will give him 2-3 years and a pretty nice payday. This was the perfect landing spot for him. Our rotation was so poor he was very likely to get every opportunity to make it. I would not mind having the Pelfrey we are watching now for a couple more years. Hopefully, he really does want to be here. You have to wonder if he wanted to be here or just realized this was a perfect situation. We don't have nearly enough information to have an insight to this question. Let's hope he is part of the solution.

Just a guess because I have never seen him play but you have to suspect the inconsistency is a product of poor plate discipline. He has a very low walk rate and a guy with that kind of power is going to be pitched carefully. How good might he be with an improved approach. (see Carlos Gomez)

And it's not in bad form to continue to blast the FO after all the moves people here insisted were obviously better and Ryan must be incompetent. If Ryan would have signed Colon this board would have erupted with criticsm but now he is a fool for not having signed guys that were longshots. There is a basic presumption here on the part of many here that they are qualified to judged TR and the rest of the coaching staff without even being present. One, I serious doubt anyone here has the credentials to presume they are better equipped to make these decisions than the people making them. Two, even if they were qualified, to presume to be sable to do so without directly being directly involved is beyond rude. There is a ridiculous unwillingness to except this is a business and that there are 29 other teams competing for free agents. Half of them have more revenue than the Twins. A few of them have far more revenue than the Twins. There is also a lot of generalizations about how the FO did not try. If you want to have a reasonable discussion, let's talk specifically about what could have been done. When you talk specifics, Ryan would have needed a crystal ball. Was it really unreasonable to expect Diamond and Worley to be solid SPs? Was it reasonable to believe Willingham and Morneau would stink? Had these guys just performed to a reasonable expectation, this would be a much beter team than last year. Where is all of the hate fo rthe guys that are not performing. How is this all on the FO? Just because TR is not here to defend himself does not make all the childish ranting less rude.

I can relate with your last paragraph but impatient is not the word I would chose. While I appreciate your efforts here, you should put the criticism in perspective. The same group that basically said Ryan was an idiot if he could not see Marcum, McCarthy, Blanton, Baker, etc were superior choices (like they could) are still complaining and expousing their superior wisdom today. They also seem to know exactly what went on even though they have absolutely no direct knowledge whatsover. Apparently, he should have had a crystal ball too so he could have seen that Colon and a couple other long shots were going to have a big year. That same crystal ball could have predicted Worley and Diamond tanking. The Grienke argument is ridiculous. We can't outbid the biggest teams. More to the point, even if we could have signed him, it would have been a terrible idea to take on that contract at this particular time. We would have $50M invested in two aging players at the exact time the payroll flexibiity could make us contenders. There is not a GM in baseball that would have signed Grienke but Ryan is not doing his job because he did what any other GM would have done in this situation. Worley, Diamond Correia should have been a good core. We don't know what they were thinking for sure but it seem reasonable they wanted one spot available for Gibson. So, if they were thinking that between Pelfrey, Deduno, Hendricks and others they had a significantly better starting rotation, that seems reasonable to me.

Hopefully, our rookies and minor leauge talent that looks so promising will become a very solid core. If that happens, my first hope is that the organization follows the Ray's model and lock them up early. Then, with that core in place, I hope the FO will use FA to fill any holes necessary to have a true contender. Until then, I don't want to see any long-term deals until we know what holes to plug. Dempster type contracts are a good strategy. Of course, those successful guys who are aging are going to be attracted to Boston, NY, LA, Texas, etc but it's not impossible.

There are plenty of moves I have not liked but letting Cuddyer and Kubel go are not among them. Kubel was a decent player but his retention was not all that important to this team. He had a good year last year but he is batting 241 with an OPS of 682. That’s not worth 7.5M/yr. Last year moving Cuddyer and bringing in Willingham looked genius. They got better production for considerably less money and Berrios in the compensation round. Thos year the tables have turned. Regardless, at the time, Willingham looked equivalent to Cuddyer and we acquired an important draft pick. To be fair, they might get a Berrios equivalent today if they still had Cuddeyer but it was still the right thing to do at the time.

Wow, You guys just intpret the information in whatever way satisfies your position. The contracts of Lackey, Lowe, and Burnett when evaluated over the duration of the contract were all poor deals that did not have the intended impact. All performed poorly and/or were injured for prolonged periods. How about our own Johan Sanana. He had a couple great years but that huge investment has not paid off so well. How about Sabathia. He is already falling off and he is signed through 2017. The argument what would it hure completely ignores the timing of the investment. Now is not the time. Why in the world would you risk the investment now on a team that clearly need 2-3 more years to be a serious contender and have that contract which will be much more likely to fail in the couple years when this team could be a contender? The argument about not exploring all avenues is similarly flawed. Top tier SPs are all but impossible to land if you are not in the top 10 markets in terms of revenue. How complicated is it that those teams can simply outbid the Twins? How about trades. Who were we going to trade. The only plater that would have brought front of the rotation guys is Mauer. I actually would be OK with that trade but I suspect most would not. Should we have given up Buxton or Sano because they are the only prospects that would have brought the kind of SP prospects we need. And, we still have not touched on the most fundamental flaw and that would be that now is not the time. KC was premature in their move and they are a couple years ahead of the Twins in terms of rebuilding. Some of you may also need to come to grips with the fact this is a business.

Because the SPs that could make a difference command long-term deals where they are likely to perform significantly below their current level. Any 5-6 year deals right now would have us relying on these Sps in their declining years just when the Twins should be serious contenders again. Go back and look at these deals. Sure, some of the really elite guys have worked out. Those guys gone to a handful of teams with significantly greater revenue than the twins. All in all, the track record for these SPs has been more bad than good, especially in the later years. Go back 5 years and look at the 2008 FA Sps. John Lackey 2010 4.40 ERA / 215 innings 2011 6.41 ERA / 160 innings 2012 out 2013 Rebounded nicely so far with a2.95 ERA AJ Burnett 5yrs / $82M / 4.80ERA over the 5 years Derek Lowe 4 yrs / $60M / 4.67 ERA over the 4 years

I have to agree. Ploufee will be a valuabale trade chip if he continues to improve his defense. His plate discipline has been getting better but still inconsistent. He could be a lot more valuable in a year. If not, he would be valuable as a DH / Utility player once Sano makes the big club. How nice would it be in Collabello came up and played well. He could be a good bridge player for the next couple years or a trade chip. I am expecting him to drop-off just like Parmalee did but we can all hope. Refining Arcia's approach is really important too. He could really be great or he could be Delmon 2.0. Yuk. Delmon drove me nuts. Arcia will be a stud if he makes pitchers throw it over the plate. Next, give Albers a shot and hopefully get Worley in decent form. Let's see if Albers is crafty enough to pitch at the ML level. Now is the time find out. #1 goal / hope is that we get something decent for Morneau and a haul for Perkins.

I really like Perk but I also really hope someone makes an offer Ryan Can't refuse. We still need more top of the rotation prospects. A high ceiling SS would be an option too but I am not as inclined as others to oust Florimon. He is fun to watch play defense. A little better approach at the plate and his offense should be very acceptable given what he adds defensively.

I am not trying to take sides here but I thought it was not just aggressive but short-sighted because they only had Shileds for 1+ an option year. I could see taking your shot if the players you were getting back were going to provide benefit for three or four years but that was no tthe case. Giving up a top 10 prospect and others for a pitcher under control for 2 years is steep? (They have a club option in 2014, right?) None of their core was going anywhere for a few years. They could have waited until their young players proved they were ready to make a playoff run. This was a high risk / impatient move.

Ozzie is the last thing we need.

Me too! He might not be an ace be he would look like one at Target field compared to what we have been stuck with the past couple years.

Great idea if Hughes could be extended. I would not mind seeing that one come to fruition. However, I have this feeling that Pelfey is going to get back to top form and we might be able to retain him. How many guys do you want to add when hopefully Meyer and may are close and who knows what is going to happen with Alex Wimmers.

It sounds to me like alot of reading between the lines in general. The disagreement in this thread is that a lot of fans are not willing to sacrifice anything now to build a contender later. My perspective is that long-term success is a product of managing assets. Selling high is generally a good idea. In this case, we have a player who's contract will expire by he time a closer is a key piece. He will also very likely be past his prime. That's why there have been articles with a theme of trading Perkins makes too much sense. However, some fans are always going to be against trading away a good player if it means delayed gratification. Some would also mention the risk with prospects but that's a two-way street.

You have to believe Carroll will be traded to a contender before the deadline. There are a lot of pieces to fit together and movement expected on the ML roster very soon.

I am surprised Adam Walker did not move up with Bigley going to New Britain

I have to conceed that I did not specifically limit this to starting pitching but that was the intent if you look at the context of the post. You are also talking about retention of existing players vs acquiring free agents. This is common. Milwaukee retained Braun but let Grienke go and there are many other examples including Mauer and Santana. The point remains that many of you continue to complain about free agent pitching the fact is that the majority of those deals did not work out at all. And, historically, more of those deals have failed than have succeeded. Had Ryan done what most of you wished he just would have flushed the dollars.

Some of these points were no doubt made by others. I did not read the entire thread. I read three pages and it was all I could take. Tier 1 free agents require long-term contracts. Signing long-term deals at this point in the rebuild, especially for team with middle of the pack revenue would be grossly incompetent and I would bet every GM in MLB would agree. The vast majority of the Free agent SP that many of you are complaining we did not go after are performing very poorly this year. In other words, Ryan was right, those of you who continue to complain we did not go after SPs were wrong. Yet, you continue to complain even after it has become evident that those pitchers were not the answer. Could the FO do better you bet. Sure, I would take the Rays FO over ours in a heartbeat. We only had one good year at Target field. The Pohlads spent the money and retained Joe Mauer. Some of you forget this fact. St. Louis who has similar revenue to the Twins was not willing to do that with Pujols. This team or any other team with equivalent revenue is not going to land SPs in free agency on the level of Sabathia, Grienke, Lee, etc. Too many other teams simply have way more to spend and this team really can’t afford the risk. There are many examples of failures with very high dollar free agent SPs, including Johan Santana. That was not a complete bust for the Mets but it was not good either.

The Red Sox revenue is $120M more than the twins.

Good point. The twins have suffered through a long spell of mediocre or worse MI defense. You would have to believe they would be inclined to stay with this combo if Rosario could net a good SP prospect.

I have to agree with you completely. Meyer and May were a good start but it would be hard to argue they fixed the situation. Worley did not look like part of the long-term solution even before he tanked. I was hoping Morneau, Willingham, and Doumit would have big years and return something at the deadline. As much as I hate to see Perkins go, he is now the only chance of bringing on another quality SP prospect. I understand where you are coming from now.

Is there a guarantee with a different approach?

I think the FO has made their share of mistakes but that is pretty easy to say with the benefit of hindsight. However, there are a lot more example of FA starting pitchers that failed then there are that have been great successes. The top half-dozen or so teams in terms of revenue can take those chances because a bust won’t completely cripple them. What should the twins have done? Grienke – No way that was ever going to happen. And, no way would it have made sense for the twins to commit to 6/$147M at this stage of the rebuild. Sanchez – Doubt there was any way we were getting him away from the Tigers. And, it does not make sense to commit 5 years to a pitcher at this point in the rebuild. 3 years from now a player with the exact same profile might make perfect sense. Peavy – Two years makes sense. He was a reasonable target but once again it’s hard to get a player away from their current team when that team is willing to match your offer. Jackson – Many Twins fans wanted Jackson. He is 6-10 w a 5.11 ERA and entering his declining years. We will have to wait 3 ½ more years but I think he would have been a colossal mistake. Kuroda – Were we going to steal him for NY? Would we have wanted him? McCarthy – I thought he was a better option than Correa but he is 2-4 w/5.00 ERA Marcum who many preferred is 1-10. Dempster at 2yrs / 26.5M with a 4.24 ERA. He was a good target too but he has hardly been a difference maker. Apparently we took a hard run at him but it’s a tough sell with a guy toward the end of his career when the other bidder is a contender. Harren is 4-10 / 5.61 Blanton 2-12 / 5.53 Baker is out. Most of the options that were supported by posters have been a bust. Some of them for a lot more money. That is absolutely completely ignored by some but I think we need to at least acknowledge this is a business. It's easy to say I don't care what it costs. Try that when managing a payroll for someone else and you will be looking for work. We also need to be fair in what has transpired. Was it reasonable for the twins to assume Worley & Diamond would be solid performers? Had Worley and Diamond performed within reasonable expectations, a rotation of Worley / Diamond / Deduno / Correa & Gibson would give us a very good chance of winning most nights.

I thinked you summed it up nicely here. I can appreciate that many don't want to see one of the few players who has really performed well be traded. However, that's what it takes to build a dominant team from the position we are in right now.