Dman

I don't think it makes negotiations tougher lets be honest the owners hold all the cards here. They can hold out forever and move to use MiLB players. The players are not going to risk losing all that money over a strike. It won't work and the owners will come out ahead one way or another. Players will start to cave one by one. There is too much at stake especially for the highest paid players. Personally I am pissed at the players union and hope their lawyer has to choke on his proposal. He doesn't have the best interests of baseball in mind. If I was a revenue sharing team I would propose major league baseball buy me out for market value and take 1 billion in salary off the books for all of baseball and see what kind of win the players get. Let them lose hundreds of jobs and lose millions of fans because his proposal does half of the teams no good. They might as well not exist and if he thinks less competition for players is a good thing then he has to be one of the biggest fools alive. If he wanted to make the players look bad he has done an excellent job. No one in their right mind could come to the conclusion that what the players are proposing is good for the teams or the players. This guy is dumber than a rock. If the players association lawyer was trying to find a way to make the game more competitive for all that is something I could get behind as a fan but personally I hope he chokes on this proposal. He has me on the side of the owners right now and I hope most baseball fans see him for the clown he is.

I don't love the owners either and I agree with you that this is about money for both sides. To me it looks like the players union is cozying up to the richer more powerful teams owners as this proposal benefits them as it weakens their competition and strengthens their pocket book. The owners of the top 10 to 15 revenue generating teams have nothing to fear in this proposal absolutely nothing. The bottom 10 teams have much more to lose. As a fan of actually one the better lower end teams it stinks that we can't compete in the FA market. How many revenue sharing teams came out with the winning bid for one of the big FA signings this year? Any? I can't think of one. Things are skewed enough as it is and they expect us as fans to hang onto hope every year? The players association wants to make my team even less competitive? Yeah they will never have me on their side with proposals like this, never.

In my mind Manfred isn't completely wrong. If that is what the Players union truly wants I would counter propose contracting all teams that currently need revenue sharing to be competitive. That would allow the other 20 teams to be closer in revenue and then compete at a closer revenue level which would allow for what the Players union wants in terms of player movement and flexibility. All teams would have close to the same amount of money to compete for FA's so there wouldn't be as large a disparity. Granted the players would lose around 300 jobs but they can gain the flexibility they require. Otherwise the players union needs to understand there needs to be a cap of some kind and greater revenue sharing to allow teams to compete in the FA market fairly. So for me yeah what the players union is proposing is likely the death of my team maybe not right away but most likely eventually. It would strengthen the larger revenue teams and those fans would be happy. It would also cost the players lots of jobs but increased pay for the ones who remain. With less revenue sharing and a shorter path to free agency teams like Tampa, Oakland, Pittsburgh, and Miami really shouldn't be included in MLB anymore. It would take a miner miracle for them to compete. They are able to now only because they control players just long enough to make a run and or can sometimes trade their way back to relevancy. What the Players union is proposing is their certain death. So to me yeah I think Manfred is right their proposal will help the rich teams get richer and the poor teams get poorer. Eventually teams won't be able to draw fans when all their good players move on after 3 or 4 years to teams that can pay them more in free agency. I just don't see how this works without more revenue sharing and a cap or contraction to keep spending at a fairer level. IMO I don't think it will be good for baseball but who knows maybe getting rid of the weaker teams will make the sport stronger?

While I agree in principal I am not so certain reality wouldn't be different. I remember the NFL strike and the replacement players. People still watched and some cities came out ahead because instead of having a bad team suddenly they were competitive. Fans root for their home team. If the product is all MiLB players for every team then that is the pool. Would some fans leave and never come back sure but I am not certain enough of them to make a large enough difference and over time I think it would even out. Might take a while like the last strike but MLB will still be there the machine is just too big. Comparing MLB tickets\games to MiLB is disingenuous. Most MiLB sites are in smaller cities, the players don't stay there long as they move up levels, they don't have a TV presence\advertising or the marketing the MLB clubs enjoy. MiLB serves a completely different purpose as that talent bubbles up to MLB which is promoted as the best of the best so that is the league that becomes the most important to fans. If the MLB players were locked out indefinitely then the best MiLB players would now be the best of the best that fans would watch. I don't see that the players have a ton of leverage here. I think they should focus on service time issues as I think that is something fans can get behind. I agree that players should get at least 50% of the pie revenue speaking and I don't like that we don't get to see the teams books because to me that means they are hiding things. Things that would most likely show them in a bad light. I am not for either side really but probably on the players side more given what I know. The issue is there is only so much they can do if the owners don't open the books. If they could get that then maybe public outrage would be enough to change things but until then what MLB is offering is likely the best they are going to get.

I am a prospect lover but after watching pitcher after pitcher go down last year it is harder to keep faith in those up and coming pitching prospects. I tend to agree with you Duran and Canterino seem in danger of arm issues and I personally don't count on either one staying a starter. They both threw limited innings last year so their ability to help the team this year seems unlikely. Sands had his own stops and starts last year but his stats are as good as Winders and Balazovic wasn't exactly dominant last year. Winder looked pretty good until he got hit with a baseball but still only 72 innings last year. Strotman threw the most innings (101) but his WHIP is currently so high he won't make it as a starter. I know they all were coming off a year layoff and injuries seemed up league wide but really we only have 3 legit guys that might be ready this year as starters and even then unlikely to make it the entire season. So yeah I agree with you that if they truly are depending entirely on the young arms we are sunk. Still I hope we get and arm or two to work out and I hope Duran and Canterino can prove more durable in 2022. The tough thing is the offense could be pretty good this coming year so if we have the pitching we probably could compete. Still with all the best FA pitchers off the board they will have to get lucky with the leftovers to help the pitching staff. I think we are in for another tough year.

Yeah I hear you on the manipulating money to show what you want part.

That is an interesting viewpoint for me having no real life experience on this issue. I guess I never thought about the fact that owners don't have to start the sport up again. You are right they are billionaires and will be fine no matter what. So that is quite a bit of power they hold. I think the hard part about this for me is how much are the owners really making? We have Oakland and Tampa with very low payrolls and no owner wants to supplement another owner so there have to be limits to what the owners are making. Whether that is too much or too little is hard to say since we don't get to see the books. However, all indications are they all are doing well as all teams are in tact and there is no contraction talk. There is no sport with exception of maybe Soccer where players make more money so baseball players do quite well. I certainly think the players deserve their fair share and should have more power to market their skills at a younger age but it is hard to know what that should look like.

I guess I am misunderstanding. Sorry. I guess I thought a lockout only lasted so long but it really is a matter of who goes first. Players or Owners. So yes what I had to say is confusing. I mainly meant that any stoppage over a full season would make it tough to come back that was the gist of my rant.

While lot's of owners did complain ours did go the extra mile during the pandemic. Mr. Pohlad also was willing to spend coming out of the pandemic a year where revenue was down or in the red the year before. So when player like Nelson Cruz say Minnesota is a top notch organization I think we have proof to back that up. A strike could cost owners revenue moving forward as fans get frustrated and move on to different pastimes.

Yeah I think I got that notion on this board. I don't know then he likely has quite a hill to climb to make it. We'll see if he stays on the 40 man.

I think Winder has a chance depending on what they do in free agency other than him for pitchers pretty much no one. I think it will be last year all over again pretty much. Enough vets to cover the start of the season and as they get injured or fail then fill in from there. I expect it will fail just as it did last year and then the younger players will get their chance. If the guys they get perform well then great we should have decent team but I am not banking on that. They are already counting on two young (rookie) pitchers (Ober and Ryan) Jax has a shot to make the pen. Winder could end up in the mix with a good spring and or AAA dominance. Moran might have a shot at pen spot or injury replacement. Same with Sands. They might not start the season with those guys but they are likely an injury away from being called up. So the rotation likely looks young already. They have Strotman, Balazovich and maybe SWR in the wings as well if they start off well in AAA they could be callups. Duran, Vallimont, Canterino, Moran could all be pen options if needed. There are a lot of young (rookie) guys they could funnel through IMO depending on how they perform this year. Given how the FA pitching market shook out I don't see what the Twins can do to meaningfully improve their pitching other than depend on some younger talent or work out a trade. That is just my opinion though.

I am really high on Canterino but am guessing that with so few innings last year and not on the 40 man that he likely doesn't make a difference this year. If he dominates like he has been they could bring him up and use him out of the pen but seems like a long shot. Duran is scary isn't he? It feels like maybe that arm won't hold up to a starters load. Also he has been more hittable than I would like to see. This is another big year for him and they could try and work him out of the MLB pen if he looks good but unlikely given so few innings last year and likely protecting his arm. I have Strotman all over the place from starter to reliever to not making it all. I just really like what I saw on the screen and hope he develops.

Totally agree on Vallimont and Jax. Jax did well the first time through lineups has a good pitch mix and decent control. He has a chance to succeed in the pen. Vallimont doesn't have enough control to be a starter and at this point appears to be who he is. Again the pen makes the most sense as he has a great K rate and his stuff should play up in the pen. If he gains control he could be an elite pen arm. I just don't see him as a starter. I like Strotman as a potential starter better than you at least at this time. He has a solid mix and I don't know if you caught him on MiLB at all but a smooth delivery. Not sure why he gives up so much contact and doesn't miss enough bats but he feels like a tweek away from being ready to me. But to your point yes he wouldn't be a bad pen arm either and likely a good one if he can find a way to miss more bats.

Yeah it seems like the way it is stacking up that they expect the young talent to carry this team and or at least gain valuable experience. As far as Bundy is concerned I think Winder is a better choice with his 94 to 95 MPH fastball and his Plus slider. I think Strotman likely has more potential than Bundy so I guess they signed him as an experienced depth piece waiting for the younger guys to supplant him? The Twins have a lot of somewhat wasted 40 man space if they can't get those young pitchers to contribute. They would have Duran, Balazovich, Winder, Sands, Strotman, Enlow, Vallimont, Cotton, and technically Jax as guys not able to help the big club unless they improve or are given the chance. Way, way too many young guys they can't rely on to help next year that are protected. So to your point yeah it does seem like this is the year they try to Cleveland their way to a young pitching staff. Given all the young talent weighing down the 40 man they almost have no choice. Some of those guys need to step up this year and contribute or it is going to be very hard to keep them. If I am Cotton, Jax or Vallimont and likely Strotman as well I would want to have a good year or likely not going to make the cut next year. The rest might have a little more leeway. So yeah I think they will be leaning on their young talent this year as well. That being said I expect them to grab another starter or two and find a shortstop. I just don't expect them to grab a high end piece unless they can work out a trade.

I never had much hope for Coloumbe or Megill but I did kind of like what Minaya showed last year. Not that he was elite or anything but he looked like someone who could work. I am sure they can find better arms out there than all three and the lack of options for Coloumbe and Minaya make it tough to roster them. I guess they are hoping that as teams trim that Megill will get lost in the wash and they can get him through and work with him at AAA. Would be nice if that worked out but I guess we will have to wait and see what happens to these guys. Well for the moment that is three more open spots. Roster management is a tough business but most all of these players will have a chance to prove themselves again next year just most likely in the minors instead of the majors.

I just take issue with you calling it "clever" lol when no brainer is what it has been for months now and they proved that by doing it over a guy who likely won't even make the the 40 man. Not sure how I can be bashing the FO when they did the expected. Sure I felt they could have done it sooner but what they have done so far has been fine. Although I would say clever is overselling it the opposite direction.

If you can call clever keeping a guy with a 541 OPs last year clever then sure.

Surprise, surprise Cave cleared waivers hard to believe (bites toungue). Nobody else wanted him either? Well he gets a chance to rebuild himself at AAA at least. Why the Twins were so worried about losing him makes me wonder about their player evaluation ability. Heck 80 percent of this board could see he wasn't worth rostering this year not sure what took them so long. Megill looks a lot like Vallimont part 2 only he is exclusively a reliever. Maybe they think that with the success they had with Ober they can tame another giant. Hard to say but odds are they drop him and hope he clears waivers for them. They need 40 man room for actual real starting pitchers so I don't think taking on Megill at the MLB level is an option.

I don't completely disagree but I think they will try to sign Pineda and at least one more bounce back arm. They still might trade for another pitcher as well but hard to say if they will be able to find the right deal or not. I do tend to agree though that they are hoping one or two of Winder, Sands, Strotman, Balazovich, Duran, Canterino and maybe SWR can work their way up. So yeah once again they need some of those young guys to step up here's hoping they do.

I think the Twins have too many outfielders on the 40 man as it is and they are going to need to make room for pitching at some point. I have been a Jake Cave backer in the past but it feels like his time has come. Gordon would be a more versatile player who can play center and bat left handed if Buxton goes down. If they want a righty then Celestino is close and for as bad as was at the plate honestly Cave wasn't much better last year. With Buxton signed Cave seems more like a logical cut than someone to sub for Buxton. They could use Martin or Lewis there if Buxton went down but I would say the odds are low unless Martins bat just looks too good and they give him a try. Kepler I don't see playing center. He grades out OK there but he also seems to get injured in center I think they leave him and his good defense in right. I do hope Martin or Lewis show something next year so we have better options there but we will have to wait and see.

This is great, great news. It is a big risk given his injury history but he also could be a top 5 to top 10 player in all of baseball and if he does manage that then this deal is a steal for the Twins. There really is no one who can replace him with the speed, power and defensive combo he posses. I am a happy Twins fan today. Thank you Byron Buxton for staying with the team I love and the fans who love watching you play.

A little surprised on Vallimont but I guess the K rate was just too good to ignore. With the control problems where he isn't even close to the strike zone he remains a wild card and I think the pen is his best chance for success. Personally I would have went with Contraras over Cave but I guess they feel with that with Mark's age and limited upside they were less likely to lose him via rule V. Still he is an above average defender who can play all three outfield positions and showed some power last year. He would be cheaper than Cave and an equal or better defender who can't be any worse than Cave was with the bat last year. I would not be surprised to see Shulfer and Gore picked in rule V. Both had good K rates but they are older and Gore is not that experienced so who knows. I think a bottom team should pick Palacios. The bat look close to ready and defense is good enough to hold down the position. I would at least take a look if I were another team. The Twins have literally nothing at short and leaving the one player who could possibly step in there seems odd to me. If they are not believers and I am Palacios I say it is time to try another team. I don't see Severino as the next Baddoo mainly because he doesn't have his plate discipline I think he would be a pretty massive reach in the Rule V draft. I think they picked the right guys to protect but I still think we could lose some guys again as well.

If that is what it would have taken to extend Berrios they should have done it. He has been one of the most durable pitchers in baseball and pretty consistent the last few years as well. He has had his end of the season swoons but overall he is about as rock solid as you are going to get. That is a hard commodity to find in a ML Baseball pitcher. I think the Blue Jays helped themselves a lot with this deal. The FO better be sure that they develop the pitching they need and there will be major pressure for SWR to work out now. He needs to be a younger version of Jose to make that deal work IMO. I know they got a fairly sure thing in Martin but losing pitching for hitting doesn't make sense given their current situation. 20M per year seems pretty reasonable and keeping your home grown guy seems even better. If he was looking for 25 or more I could see having no choice but to make a trade, but I think 20M was the sweet spot and the Jays got it done. Kind of bummed about that trade now.

That is some good stuff. I think Colome will bounce back next year. He won't be elite or anything but he won't be as bad as last year either. Still glad the Twins let him go. It just wasn't going to be a good fit.

I was surprised he passed through to be honest as there are some pretty poor pitching teams that could have used him. I guess as you said the price was not right until the CBA is settled I guess there will be more of these types of deals. Teams will still have a chance to grab him in FA so I bet things work out for him once the CBA is settled.