mikelink45

We are well positioned for the future, but not the present. Who besides Polanco is MLB ready now. Marwin is a great utility player and good at many positions, but he is not a MLB ss.

This set of notes really emphasizes how Sano has fallen in the estimation of the fan base. I do not want us to give up early like we did with David Arias - Ortiz. The narrative is hard to change and Sano has to change it, and I hope he does.

Who are our managers and who was the best? I have to say that I have a lot of questions about how to judge managers. They are given a roster to work with, they do not sign players or create the roster, they work with the GM and the GM is not judged like the manager. Right now we play in a lousy division which gives us 19 games a year versus the Royals, White Sox and Tigers plus the best team in the division is far below what the other division leaders do. What would our records be if we were in the East? Our Managers began with Cookie Lavagetto, but he was replaced within the 1961 year in Minnesota so I cannot consider him to top this list. Sam Mele 1961 – 1967. He had a world series and lost to Sandy Koufax in game seven. The record during his reign was 522 – 431 .546 Cal Ermer 1967 – 1968 145 – 129 .529 Billy Martin 1969 97 – 65 .599, playoffs and lost in three straight. Self-destructed off the field with players, marshmallow salesmen… Bill Rigney 1970-72 208-184 .531, one playoff and lost in three straight. Frank Quilici 1972 – 1975 280 – 287 .494 Gene Mauch 1976-1980 378-394 .490 Johnny Goryl 34 – 38 .472 Billy Gardner 1981-1985 268-353 .278 Ray Miller 1985-1986 109-130 .456 Tom Kelly 1986 – 2001 1140-1244 .478 2 World Series 16 – 8 playoff record Ron Gardenhire 1068 – 1039 507 playoff record 6 – 21 Paul Molitor 2015 – 2018 305-343 471 TOP FIVE IN WINS 1. Tom Kelly 1140 2. Ron Gardenhire 1039 3. Sam Mele 522 4. Gene Mauch 378 5. Paul Molitor 305 TOP FIVE IN PCT 1. Billy Martin 599 2. Sam Mele 546 3. Cal Ermer 529 4. Bill Rigney 531 5. Ron Gardenhire 507 Best Average finish during their career span – I will eliminate the one year managers (Martin). The average comes from Baseball Reference: 1. Ron Gardenhire 2.7 2. Molitor 2.8 3. Rigney 3.0 4. Mele 3.2 5. Quilici 3.3 6. Mauch 3.6 7. Kelly 3.8 World Series has only Mele and Kelly Most playoffs – Gardenhire (there were none around for Mele - he only had the WS and went to it.) So who was the best? What a challenge. In recent times Tom Kelly has been sainted despite an overall .478 winning percentage. I wish I could say who got the most out of their talent level, but I do not have that data. I know the current Molitor haters would not like it that in the future, Molitor might look quire good in these rankings. Of Course Ray Miller and Billy Gardner are easy to rank the worst. Certainly, for one year I would take Billy Martin, then Sam Mele, and then you can duke it out – was Kelly that good or was Gardenhire the guy that Twins fans got tired or over rated and the stats don’t count? Player reports for Twins History https://twinsdaily.com/blogs/entry/11397-best-relief-pitcher-in-twins-history/ https://twinsdaily.com/blogs/entry/11393-best-starting-pitchers-twins/ https://twinsdaily.com/blogs/entry/11390-%7B%3F%7D/ https://twinsdaily.com/blogs/entry/11392-%7B%3F%7D/ https://twinsdaily.com/blogs/entry/11388-%7B%3F%7D/ https://twinsdaily.com/blogs/entry/11386-the-twins-best-left-fielder-in-history/ https://twinsdaily.com/blogs/entry/11380-the-best-third-baseman-in-minnesota-twins-history/ https://twinsdaily.com/blogs/entry/11367-the-best-first-baseman-in-twins-history/ https://twinsdaily.com/blogs/entry/11377-the-best-ss-in-twins-history/ https://twinsdaily.com/blogs/entry/11371-%7B%3F%7D/ https://twinsdaily.com/blogs/entry/11365-the-best-catcher-in-twins-history/

Excellent - I remember Mike Marshall - here is a quote from Cooperstown Confidential that describes Marshall well - "during the offseason, studied the science of kinesiology, exhibited an endurance level matched by few other relief pitchers in the game’s history, and, even after his playing days, continued to espouse unconventional pitching mechanics that contradict existing baseball wisdom." Today we would look on his ideas with more open mindedness, but after his career he was essentially blackballed. https://tht.fangraphs.com/cooperstown-confidential-the-unofficial-ban-of-mike-marshall/ I loved that he actually had a season in 1974 where he was in 106 games. Appeared in 179 innings and had a 2.66 ERA. To put that in perspective - Gibson and Berrios were the only pitchers last year to exceed his total in relief and they had 192 and 196 innings - as starters. Boy have things changed.

Nice reflections. It is fun to look back.

I had liked Worthington back in the sixties, but when I did this look back I was amazed by the innings he pitched and the consistency he had. They did not worry about saves and specialists in those days.

I would like to see him do well. I liked the tools he brought to the team and it was sad to see him hit by injuries.

Relief pitchers This is the hardest section for me to do an analysis. Is it the closer, is it the person who is in the most games? How do we define this role? There is a different role before saves became the negotiation tool, and now there is, finally, a change in perception of what makes a great reliever. In 1961 Pedro Ramos was in 53 games and started 34, Ray Moore was in 46 games and started none, Jim Kaat was in 47 games and started 29 and Bill Pleis was in 37 and started none. Looking at the all time lists the leaders in saves is: 1. Joe Nathan 260 2. Rick Aguilera 254 3. Glen Perkins 120 4. Eddie Guardado 116 5. Ron Davis 108 6. Jeff Reardon 104 Senator 7. Firpo Marberry 94 8. Al Worthington 88 9. Ron Perranoski 76 10. Mike Marshall 54 If we look at who finishes games: 1. Rick Aguilera 434 2. Joe Nathan 394 3. Eddie Guardado 258 Senator 4. Firpo Marberry 251 5. Ron Davis 249 6. Glen Perkins 228 7. Al Worthington 213 8. Jeff Reardon 177 9. Bill Campbell 171 10. Ron Perranoski 167 Poor Ray Moore with a team leading 14 saves and Billy Pleis with 3 do not appear on these lists, but they were representative of their era. In 1962 Moore was 8 – 3 with 9 saves in 49 games. Dick Stigman was 12 – 5, 3.66 era, and 3 saves in 40 games and 142 innings with a number of starts. 1963 Bill Dailey had a 1.99 era, 6 -3 record, 66 games and 108.2 innings. Ray Moore was 37 games and pitched 50 innings. In 1964 Al Worthington had 1.37 era, 5 – 6, 14 saves, and 72 innings in 41 games. That same year Johnny Klippstein had joined Al with a 1.97 ERA, 2 saves and 45 innings in 33 appearances! Neither of them would accumulate saves, but how do you do better than this? In 1965 they combine to go 19 – 10, 2.15 ERA, 156 innings in 118 games. In 1966 these two were 37 and 38 years old and still doing great. But Worthington was the lead with a 6-3 record, 2.46 era, 16 saves, and 91 innings in 65 games. Al Worthington 6 years 2.62 era 327 games 473 innings 88 saves and 10.1 WAR while Klippstein was only 3 years and 3.8 WAR. Together they dominated out bullpen and deserve more credit than they have gotten. Jim Perry split starting and relieving in 1967 with Worthington in the lead. In 1968 Worthington was finishing up and Ron Perranoski stepped up to take the Klippstein role. In 1969 had 31 saves and 119 innings in 75 games – I loved real pitchers – and Worthington still pitched in 46 games and 61 innings. Perranoski had 76 saves in 4 years, 244 games, 360 innings, 4.8 WAR. Stan Williams was the second arm in the bullpen in 70 and 71. The big change was 1972 with Wayne Granger and Dave LaRoche in the BP. 1973 Ray Corbin, Bill Hands, Dave Goltz were primary relievers, but also starters. It wasn’t until 1974 that we got a real BP closer in Bill Campbell who was 8 – 7, 2.62 era, 63 games, 19 saves, 120 innings. He had 121 innings in 47 games in 1975, but the closer was considered to be Tom Burgmeier. In 1976 Campbell was 17 – 5, 3.01 era, 78 games, 167 innings! A reliever, no starts and as much as many of today’s starters. Bill Campbell, 4 years, 3,13, 216 games, 460 innings, 7.6 WAR. Mike Marshall was our next work horse. In 1978 he was 10 – 12 with 2.45 era, 21 saves, and 99 innings in 54 games. 1979 Marshall was 10 – 15, 90 games, 142 innings, 2.65 era. 1980 Marshall was in only 18 games and Doug Corbett 73. Mike Marshall 3 years 21 – 20 2.99 era, 162 games, 274 innings, 6.9 WAR Corbett was the primary RP in 1981 with 54 games, 87 innings and 2.57 ERA in 1981. Then in 1982 we put Ron Davis in the Closer position. He was 3 – 9 with a 4.42 era and 22 saves. In 1983 he got his ERA down to 3.34 and saved 30. 1984 his era went back up to 4.55. He was 7 – 11 with 29 saves. 1985 his era was 3.48 and he had 25 saves. Then he imploded in 1986 with a 9.08 ERA. Keith Atherton was the closer. Ron Davis, 5 years, 4.51 era 286 appearances and 381 innings, 108 innings and 0.1 WAR – he is definitely not one of the best. The World Series Year saw Jeff Reardon take over and do it well. 8 – 8, 4.48 era (too high), 63 games and 80 innings. In 1988 his era dropped to 2.47 and Juan Berenguer stepped up to be his second and that continued in 1989. Jeff Reardon, 3 years, 3.70 era, 191 games 226 innings 104 saves, 4.2 WAR. Rick Aquilera moved to the pen in 1990, with Berenguer still second. Aquilera and Bedrosian in 1991, Aguilera and Carl Willis in 1992, Aguilera and Trombley in 1993, same group in 1994, Aquilera, Mahomes, Guardado in 1995. Rick Aquilera, 11 years, 254 saves, 3.50 era, 15.5 WAR. In 1996 Eddie Guardado was in 83 games with only 3 saves and 73 innings. In 1997 Aquilar had the saves, Guardado was in the most games 69 (not quite every day). Same two in 1998, Guardado 79 games. Trombley took over the closer position in 1999. LaTroy Hawkings closed in 2000 and Guardado was in 70 games, but Bob Wells was in 76! LaTroy 28 saves in 2001, Guardado the most games 70, 66 innings. LaTroy 62 games, 51 innings. Not like the early days! 2002 Eddie takes over at closer and saves 45 games. Eddie Guardado 12 years, 116 saves, 37 – 38 4.53 ERA, 648 games 704 innings. 9.5 WAR 2004 Joe Nathan 1.62 era, 44 saves! 73 games 72 innings – the modern era of closers. Nathan would continue as our closer through 2011. Joe Nathan 7 years, 24 – 13 2.16 era, 260 saves 460 games, 463 innings 18.4 WAR 2011 Matt Capps was the closer with a 4.25 ERA, Glen Perkins was in 65 games with a 2.48 ERA. Perkins saved 16 as our closer in 2012. Perkins would keep the closer position through 2017. Glen Perkins 35 – 25, 3.88, 120 saves, 409 games 624 innings (he was a starter for a while) and 8.8 WAR. Who to choose for the best? Well we have a bullpen full of names. Here are my choices (stats are Twins not career numbers): 1. Joe Nathan 7 years, 24 – 13 2.16 era, 260 saves 460 games, 463 innings 18.4 WAR 2. Rick Aquilera, 11 years, 254 saves, 3.50 era, 15.5 WAR. 3. Al Worthington 6 years 2.62 era 327 games 473 innings 88 saves and 10.1 WAR 4. Bill Campbell, 4 years, 3,13, 216 games, 460 innings, 7.6 WAR. 5. Mike Marshall 3 years 21 – 20 2.99 era, 162 games, 274 innings, 6.9 WAR 6. Eddie Guardado 12 years, 116 saves, 37 – 38 4.53 ERA, 648 games 704 innings. 9.5 WAR 7. Glen Perkins 35 – 25, 3.88, 120 saves, 409 games 624 innings (he was a starter for a while) and 8.8 WAR. 8. Perranoski had 76 saves in 4 years, 244 games, 360 innings, 4.8 WAR. 9. Jeff Reardon, 3 years, 3.70 era, 191 games 226 innings 104 saves, 4.2 WAR. I know that I did not go in order by WAR – I valued Worthington’s innings pitched above saves. Marshall and Campbell had less WAR than every day Eddie, but they also played in 1/3 the years.