NYCTK

I, frankly, don't care about that at all. But I'm a local kid that left so that makes sense. But even so, I basically think his upside is the other Minnesotan Glen Perkins. Which is a good nice career. Something he should be really proud of, obviously, but ultimately for naught. He was a darn good relief pitcher on really bad teams. If given the chance, the Twins would have been foolish not to go back in time and trade him in 2011 for two of another organization's top ten prospects and try to bet on some actual upside. I expect Roden to be about 6 WAR over the next 3-4 seasons and Rojas to be anywhere from a -2 to +10 WAR player over that same period. It's a good gamble for someone that is, at the end of the day, a good relief pitcher. I am more optimistic on Roden than most anyone else here, but that's only to say I think he is a step or two above Martin due to the fact that he has shown SOME power and has shown SOME defensive competency in the OF. Rojas seems like he must be Rule 5 eligible, explaining why Toronto was more willing to trade him away. Easy enough for the Twins to keep him on there all next season with no expectation he'd get a call-up. Seems he should start the season in AAA and maybe he eventually makes it up. Any maybe he's even someone, especially with that youth and the fact that he's not ever lasted a long season, that is best suited for the Crochet career path: coming into the bullpen initially with the plans of stretching him out as he gains strength and experience. 2026 will be filled with patchwork solutions, and if things break right they can compete, but the Twins really shouldn't force players up just because there's a hole. Make sure they've proven themselves worthy. "Current" 2027 Depth Chart - C: ?, ? IF: Royce, Culpepper, Keaschall, ?, Lee, Eeles OF: Buxton, Jenkins, Rodriguez, Roden, Mendez DH: Wallner, Gonzalez SP: Ryan, Lopez, Matthews, Bradley, Festa, Ober, Abel, Rojas, Woods Richardson, Gallagher, Prielipp RP: whatever failed starters the Twins decide, truly no one should be overly concerned So the catching is a huge question mark, and the IF is looking iffy. There's enough depth in the OF and the top prospects being exciting enough that I think it will be fine and the pitching looks deep.

I don't know what the hell that's supposed to mean, as a confessed Mets (and Twins) fan. I'm glad you feel you treated your employees well. Did they get equity in your business? This is all just to say, work isn't all there is to life. Which is perhaps why Buxton doesn't care to leave.

Why is this clear? Why do people keep saying this? Just because payroll is lower? Payroll SHOULD be lower if you're not trying to compete.

I don't get how that follows. So just because a roster has players that other teams expect to perform well that means they have performed well? The Twins also traded away 4 offensive players. Does that mean the offense was performing well? I look at the bullpen as a whole and I actually see a unit that has been about 20th in every results oriented metric. And while I certainly don't expect that to improve this season, I don't really have concern that the team can't rebuild a bullpen in 2 seasons time that can replicate that "success".

Was the bullpen actually a strength this year? I keep hearing that it was, but I take a look at the numbers and I'm not convinced.

Point being, that team was obviously a good, up and coming team, as shown by the 90 win season that immediately followed (not to mention the second World Series victory). No one was looking at this roster and thinking that. They were given 3 seasons as a mostly intact core to prove they might be, and they showed through their play that that wasn't the case. And even so, as this post says, the team hasn't been completely torn down. Only the bullpen has been, as of yet.

Rangers won 90 games. The 2004-2005 Cardinals each had 100 wins. That was a dynasty or sorts, not some miracle season. That 87 Twins were a bit of a miracle, but proved it winning 90 games 3 of the next 5 years. If you're not even sniffing a 90 win season, then you're not a contender. Counting on sneaking into the playoffs with 84 wins and crossing your fingers is not a winning mentality and not a franchise that is any fun to watch.

I don't agree the Twins got better return, but this board wouldn't have been satisfied with an 18 year old prospect many years away from the bigs. My favorite is that fans insisting that the Varland was an intentional Eff You to fans. Yes, I'm sure Falvey and/or ownership really cares about your personal feelings about one specific relief pitcher just because he happens to be born in Minnesota. They were smoking cigars and discussing how best to piss you, specifically, off.

Who?

Keirsey tracker: He has been the worst (non-pitcher) hitter in Minnesota Twins history with at least 90 PAs, by wOBA.

Don't disagree with any of that. Just comparing, in the wake of the fire sale, how people are talking about him versus how people are taking about Roden, who is, I'd argue, the much better bet.

Just like Kirby Puckett... Fans need to stop acting as though they know someone because of their public persona. Buxton MAY be the world's greatest guy, but not one of us actually knows him.

It is pretty funny how biased people here are towards Martin. And it makes sense for two reasons: He's been in the system for 5 years now so they've grown attached to him as well as and this sunk cost fallacy. Fans want to feel like they won the Berrios trade (which they arguably already did). And he looks like a good athlete, a proper ballplayer. Just like the scouts in Moneyball, people have a hard time looking at players objectively.

I don't think anyone should really feel bad for him because his baseball team stinks. He has the chance to change that and actively chooses not to. And you can just as much make the argument that he (or rather his porcelain body) has failed the Twins. We'll see if he gets to 500 trips to the plate but it's looking less likely, and that would be 8 straight seasons. If he was good and healthy in 2023 or 2024 would the front office have pushed some chips in and tried to make a splash? We'll never know. Anyways, loyalty to an employer is always stupid. They don't care about you. Whether you work for McDonald's or the Minnesota Twins.

The hope for 2026 before the teardown was just as, if not more, foolish. These hot prospects will almost certainly be burdens more than benefits next year. That's as true now as it was last week. So where was the hope for 2026 otherwise? An older Correa? A healthier Buxton?

I've said as much that he doesn't really excite me. But I am still significantly higher on him than Austin Martin, and that is likely not an opinion that is shared by many people on this website.

The only one that the Twins should (and have) given up on is Miranda. He's a bust. 1000 chances and he just wasn't good enough. Larnach, similarly, has been given the chances and while fine, has shown he's not good enough to put in any near or long term plans but decent enough to just hang around if it works out. Wallner...I'm tempted to say the same but still leaving some hope there that he just becomes the DH or maybe 1B and contributes, but I have nowhere near enough confidence to consider him part of the plans either.

Yes, but I disagree on soon. Obviously this season is lost and all these players should be able to rest assured their performance doesn't really matter for the following days lineup. But I would mostly say that's true of next year too. Not completely, of course, you're resetting the standings, and crazier things have happened than a team you expect to be bad playing well, but no crazy moves are happening with the intention of competing in 2026. This team is learning and building towards 2027.

The Twins are currently in the unenviable position where they can allow young players to just flounder for week long stretches. The community here is often completely contradictory. People seemingly both want the Twins young players given the chance to fail at the major league level so they can learn and grow (as if Trevor Larnach's 1500 PAs haven't told us much of his abilities) but also want to give up on players as soon as they have a 1-20 stretch. Which is it!? This prevalent idea that Roden's 100+ plate appearances have proven he is a bust is just wild to me. Give him another 100 this season, and at least another 300 next season (I promise you there's enough playing time to go around). Then we can talk about how he fits into the 2027 picture.

Are we giving up on Lee too? He has more than 4x as many PAs as Roden and about 2x as many as Martin. He's barely been given fewer chances than Julien (823 v 527) and has actually hit significantly worse.

I wasn't around then!

He didn't impress you in 12 innings, so he's out of chances in your mind?

Well then people had terrible expectations of what sort of caliber of MLB ready talent the Twins could receive in return for trade deadline moves.

Fair. But I also keep hearing from people on this very website that you need to let the kids play and fail to learn and grow. His strikeout issues are a bit weird in the bigs because he's had very good K and BB rates in the minors, including AAA. As for his defense, it's significantly superior to Larnach and Wallner as well as last year's Austin Martin, but that hasn't stopped fans from insisting all year that Austin Martin should get another chance in the bigs (which I now agree with since the immediate goals of the team have changed). Player A Player B Age 25.6 26.4 AAA K% 12.6 14.5 AAA BB% 11.9 16.4 AAA ISO 0.185 0.109 AAA OPS 0.917 0.816 Minors OPS 0.866 0.764 OF JUMP 33.2 32.0 LF OAA 2 -3 Arm Strength 88.6 87.0 Sprint Speed 27.9 28.3