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TheLeviathan

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Everything posted by TheLeviathan

  1. TheLeviathan
    At least in that one, for me, I thoroughly hate one team so much more it allows me to root for the other a bit. The problem with the rest of the matchups is I really don't like all of them about equally.
  2. TheLeviathan
    Chiefs are pretty much the only team I can stomach rooting for also. If it's Patriots-Cowboys in the Super Bowl that is going to be excruciating to watch. I might root for the apocalypse making a timely appearance instead.
  3. TheLeviathan
    I think you're being stubborn as a mule in your interpretation of that phrase........
  4. TheLeviathan
    Storen 1 year and 3M makes me sad. We should've doubled that.
  5. TheLeviathan
    It should be. Along with a lot of other probabilities about the future. We're trying to build a winner and that's going to require risk taking on upside. They'll have ample time, if they fail here, to show that it wasn't on them. I can still judge the non-trade of Dozier as a failure for this offseason. To me, it is the number one priority by a mile.
  6. TheLeviathan
    Well, I wasn't offering it as a solution so much as a range of possibilities for why this fell apart. I won't speculate on why it didn't happen, but I will judge the outcome as a failure. (And I'll do that without holding it against our new FO)
  7. TheLeviathan
    So everything then?
  8. TheLeviathan
    I would hope we could just conclude "things didn't work out" and not go into respective camps defending or attacking them. That isn't going to happen, however. I'll say this now, I don't need to know what was on the table to think any non-trade is a failure at some level. These guys need to find a way to make this happen either by convincing the Dodgers to give up more or taking a good offer when it's on the table. For our chances to succeed we have to find a way to make this happen.
  9. TheLeviathan
    Perhaps, if one takes your analogy as indicative of our condition, you would seem to have answered the question a bit from your end. And perhaps not the way in which you intended? Maybe we are adolescents. Like adolescents we're volatile and emotional and we think the world is the worst (or best, depends on the day. Well, maybe the minute) and we lack perspective on how far we've come and we struggle to visualize the path forward. But let's stop and think what an adolescent is: We're no longer learning to crawl, or walk, or talk, or add, or subtract, or feed ourselves, or....well, the list could go on and on. Sure, we have a lot to learn, but that shouldn't let us lose sight of how far we've come. We have grown. Just think about how much science is a part of our culture more than at any other time and what a wonderous thing that is. So, yeah, some of that growth has complicated life and created new complications, but it's still much further along the path to adulthood than when we couldn't feed ourselves. So what do we, as adults and parents try to do for adolescents? We try to guide them on the right path towards maturity and to help them keep perspective on where they've been, where they are, and where they are going so they set the right path forward. I'd caution all the concerns you might be compelled to feel make right now worse are the sort of reactions you might find in, I don't know.....a teenager
  10. TheLeviathan
    I would say worrying about probabilities about future value is very prudent. Your judgment about the current deal being "lesser" should be informed by that thinking. And maybe it is, that might be why we're still here.
  11. TheLeviathan
    Where we are is "looking at a lesser return", regardless of his performance if history is any indication.
  12. TheLeviathan
    What if, overall, the answer to all those questions has grown positively towards yes? As in, more humans throughout the world are willing to answer positively about these questions more than at any time in our history? We tend to think our most immediate issues are the worst and fail to keep perspective. And that perspective is important because it informs us of what we can do and have already succeeded at.
  13. TheLeviathan
    Some of this is talking past each other, your proposed offer you'd accept isn't that far off from what most of us would take also. No one is asking for DeLeon and a couple of scrubs. Where the disagreement comes in is how some are framing the outcomes of this situation. You're framing your case based on the worst case scenario of the trade and make no mention of the worst case in your scenario. Dozier has shown a propensity to go long stretches being a total pumpkin. A "you should consider benching this guy" level of ineptitude. Last year it was for two months. The previous year it was closer to three months. There is a decent chance (like 15% you suggested let's say) that in addition to the value he is guaranteed to lose in terms of his age and team control, that he could lose heaping piles of value by being more Slump Dozier than Ruth Dozier. So not trading Dozier relies on the hope that we can deal him at the deadline (bucking a decade long trend that has already been established) or next offseason (when he is older and only signed for one year) for an equal package. That's unlikely. More unlikely than you seem to care to acknowledge. But you readily acknowledge DeLeon's downside. Could DeLeon and all the guys we acquire bust? Yes, they could. Which has better odds of helping this team though? That's what matters and I do think that path is pretty clear. It's evident our front office agrees or we wouldn't even have this thread.
  14. TheLeviathan
    Well, no one wants a "bad trade", but where we define that differs as jimmer pointed out. I think there are some too far on the "keep Dozier" side that are overvaluing Dozier (especially relative to his ability to help the Twins win) and understating how badly we need to find upside pitching and how few our options are to do that.
  15. TheLeviathan
    No one wants a DeLeon for Dozier swap. The discussion about WAR is more to show just how useless Dozier is likely to be for this team and how garnering any significant contribution from a pitcher in the deal is likely to be a net win. So the floor for this trade is very high and the upside is as well. That's the kind of deal you need to find a way to make. They need to add secondary pieces for sure, but the "keep Dozier" crowd lacks perspective on our situation and that line of argument was meant to show it.
  16. TheLeviathan
    It's a fair take. I'd caution sometimes the issues abroad find their way ashore. I'm also all for what you suggest, but I think sometimes that message gets lost when we overstate how bad things are, relatively speaking. I'd like to think the more powerful way to phrase it is "Look how far we've come! But we can, and should, and need to do more"
  17. TheLeviathan
    No, it doesn't make him worthless, but it should reframe your perspective. Whatever value Dozier has around the league is probably at it's peak. Even in the worst case scenario and DeLeon is a bust, you're still talking about having a decent chance the move is a net gain. If he succeeds it's a game changer. Plus whatever else comes back in the deal. Hanging on to Dozier, paying out the rest of his deal, and enjoying whatever meaningless number of HRs he hits while we lose 90 games does nothing to get us to where we need to go. And where we need to go will only be accomplished by adding more high upside arms. I'm all ears on a better way to do that than trading Dozier right now.
  18. TheLeviathan
    I don't think we're anywhere near that perception though....are we?
  19. TheLeviathan
    I know this is a common phrase, but globally, are we really at a point where the rich are the richest and the poor are the poorest? I can't help but feel the tone of your argument is one of those "first world problems" sorts of things. We say this but is there really any truth to it? But I'm open to hearing what you base this on - are we really at our lowpoint relative to what has come before?
  20. TheLeviathan
    If you can get the signed players to agree to that to let you work out your roster....so be it. What's the alternative? Forcing teams to immediately file paperwork the nano-second terms are agreed on? How would you even enforce that?
  21. TheLeviathan
    I think Brock's post refutes that first paragraph. Plus, this whole conversation assumes if DeLeon doesn't live up so we are talking worst case scenarios and you can still argue it's a net gain. If he becomes a high end starter it is a huge win. I think it'd important to keep this framed realistically and prudently.
  22. TheLeviathan
    It would be a failure based on reasonable expectation, but it'd still be an overall net gain. We should aim for higher, but I really think some of you underestimate how little good Dozier I'd for us until we get some damn pitching.
  23. TheLeviathan
    If DeLeon is a solid major league starter he'll more than return the value for the organization than retaining Dozier would. You, and many others, are struggling to put into context how useless Dozier is likely to be for us in terms of competing. Resigning him would be an almost certain disaster and the pitching doesn't look to be worthy of competing for at least a season if not much longer. So would I accept it 1:1? No, there isn't enough to mitigate the risk there if DeLeon implodes, but a couple other solid pieces and I'm sold.
  24. TheLeviathan
    All true, but jorgen's point is valuable for how we evaluate the deal in the aftermath. Getting Deleon alone is probably a coup value-wise, everything else is gravy. But we should be looking for extra helpings of gravy too.
  25. TheLeviathan
    I get that, but I would suggest all teams hold equal ability to do what the Dodgers are doing, it's not an unfair advantage.
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