TheLeviathan
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Everything posted by TheLeviathan
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Hey! We all know how to play softball alright?
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Why out of curiosity? I thought Shaw and his crew made a really terrible foil and dragged the movie down.
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I would be thrilled to get Javier Vasquez back as the centerpiece of a deal.
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I thoroughly disliked First Class and was ok with DoFP. Without Fassbender I'd put both of those movies in the "bleh" pile personally.
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The Xmen franchise is due a film that doesn't suck. (Deadpool doesn't count, he's basically his own brand)
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Start with DeLeon....we'll work on the toppings later. (No nuts....)
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C'mon, you know that characterization isn't fair. They aren't choosing to "have the least talent", they're choosing to save their best chips to acquire either a better player, or acquire a need later in the year rather than unload for a guy that they have legitimate reasons to doubt. Plus, the playoffs are a crap shoot, they have every reason to believe they are a playoff team without Dozier. (Because...they were) They can save all their best assets for July and go for it then. Us? Our pitching sucks and we know it. And short of moving Dozier our ability to acquire high upside pitching is...what exactly? So which one is a bigger need seems easy to me - one is looking for the cherry on top of the sundae, we're trying to figure out where the hell we can even find some ice cream to start ours.
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If you look at Dozier and see upward trend....you are a GM I would try to trade with all the time.
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Could not disagree more. The Dodgers lost to the eventual Champ in 6 games with Chase Utley at 2B. They can find an equivalent to Utley for far less cost and look for a bigger patch later if they choose and still be one of the top teams in the NL. We lost 103 games because our pitching is the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked. We need pitching way more than the Dodgers need a 2B.
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I guess I just see that article as the point at which all reports got fuzzy. I can't tell what's incestuous reposting/rephrasing of his article and what is independently confirmed.
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Maybe. We've heard the extremes, we haven't heard the middle ground. Most of that "off the table" talk was based on LEN's poorly written article.
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Well you are admittedly down on JDL. Which is a fair stance, there are red flags for sure. But I tend to think a top 30 pitching prospect being added over Hughes/Meija is a rather sizable upgrade in upside.
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No one really seems to know. We know the Twins asked for Bellinger and DeLeon. We can assume the Dodgers countered with DeLeon and something else. (I give the only DeLeon offer almost no credibility) What middle ground, if any, has been established is the issue.
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If we dealt for DeLeon I'd like to see this rotation: Berrios-DeLeon-Gibson-Santana-Santiago with Meija and May in the mix for the fifth spot as well. I'd probably prefer May. I also hope Santana is dealt in July.
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If you are trading Sano and Berrios for Quintana (something I would bet you are in the vast minority in favor of doing) then you need to take Berrios out of your plans for the rotation. You should read up on what was being asked for around the league for him. It rivaled Sale. I do appreciate you being open abuot this though. Most people who toss out the "we should just fix it" aren't brave enough it seems to face the reality of what it would take. Though I don't get why we'd wince at trading Dozier and then leap at trading Sano and Berrios. I can't get behind that. As for our second point, I'm not underestimating those player's upside, I'm being realistic about what to expect from them in 2017. For at least half of those young guys they may not even pitch in the big leagues while Dozier is a Twin and if they do they are probably rookies when they do. I wouldn't expect much, that's something we frequently do unfairly here - expect rookies to hit their ceiling right away. And DeLeon is in the rotation because I highly, highly doubt Phil Hughes is a capable SP out of spring training. And we may not want him there anyway.
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So you'd take DeLeon and Buehler, give or take. That's fine. That's fair. That's what most all of us on the pro-trade bandwagon are arguing for too.
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What about the other half of the issue?Dozier's profile, do you unload your best trade chips for a guy with what looks like one outlier season without serious doubts about what you are getting in return? Perhaps you do. As you said, you'd give up Berrios. They're giving up DeLeon, so that makes you equal. Now consider, that you're one of the more reasonable people on this. There are people who are demanding something akin to Kepler and Berrios. Do you do that? What else do you part with, along with your best chip (Berrios) for a guy like Dozier?
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Wouldn't you have doubts how huge the upgrade actually is? And, if you reasonably did and still offered Berrios, isn't that a helluva starting point regardless or the rest of the package? We all agree there should be something else in the deal, but the delta seems to be akin to the difference between Kepler and Palka.
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This. We were offered the best available SP prospect on the market (or at least one of a very small handful) and people are scoffing at it. Meanwhile the Twins are asking for the equivalent of Berrios and Kepler for Dozier. Sorry RB, but throwing out the "anything can happen" is a lazy argument. It ignores real probabilities in favor of some empty platitude that sounds like an argument, but isn't. I feel so much of this discussion has revolved around similar problems. I repeat again, if after 2015 someone was offering us a 30 year old coming off a spiked season that looks like a career outlier and that team wanted Kepler and Berrios for him we'd have near unanimous agreement to scoff at such a notion. And yet, in the reverse, we're complaining we can "only" get Berrios and a few others for him. Perspective people.
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Do you have any idea what the price tag is on Quintana? Think: Sale. That ain't happening. So you think we build a contending rotation out of "giving a shot" to Santiago, Hughes, and May and then hoping two or three young guys figure it out? I'm amazed anyone could type this plan and feel reassured it would work. For that I give you kudos, but there is enormous risk here (young pitchers, injuries, or unprovens all over) and very little upside. This plan's ceiling is "doesn't totally suck". No thanks.
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If I'm them I am much more concerned about if he transitions well to the NL. Many hitters have seemed to struggle for a year adjusting to new parks and pitchers.
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I would also like to hear this. Mostly I seem to recall hearing "they have to be creative" which is, pretty much, a non-answer. I also would expect it to be pretty low risk (somehow) since that also appears to be a criticism.
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No, I agree, that's why the 2nd and 3rd pieces should be there. I'm just not bent out of shape if they are elite arms or anything. I want good to solid prospects, but I need nothing close to Bellinger to make it happen. Perhaps there was a feeling of insult from both sides with the offers thrown out. At that point, I agree, perhaps both sides acted poorly at the outset and there is no saving this thing. It's a failure, but one I hope we learned from if so.
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And I think drjim has easily the most reasonable position opposite mine and yours jimmer, but I think it's worth pointing out that if you inherently believe pitching is more risky (not at all an unfair thing to think) then you are going to have to pull the trigger sometimes on upside even if you feel you may lose on value in the short run. It just makes the need for good assessment and scouting important to try and mitigate that risk. It doesn't mean you don't try to add pitching because there is inherently more risk. You just have to make sure you go after the right ones. And for that we have to trust our FO.
