TheLeviathan

I think New York Times sports readers are both about as intelligent as you'll find and as likely to support labor over capital as you'll find in any cross-section of sports fans and they were still predominantly (overwhelmingly) on the side opposed to the union's arguments. If you have a better data set for determining the public's sentiments I would appreciate seeing it.

So....by tradition. I'm not sure how someone posts those two sentences back to back and thinks they've somehow avoided that fallacy. The MLBPA has no good reason to oppose it other than tradition and "nuh uh, I don't wanna". As you just demonstrated in 7 paragraphs. Just stick my shorter version, it'll save us all time. I will say this before I go back to just ignoring your posts: Most reasonable folks see plenty of reasons for change. That's not even an opinion, you can go check out the fan survey on The Athletic. The MLBPA lacks any good counter argument. They re;y entirely on fallacies and petulance....which is going to lose over time. Whether they lose the negotiations or lose the sport market share...the cost will be paid at some point. I'll keep rooting for them to get their bag, but if the sport isn't healthy it won't matter.

You started with the argument that the MLBPA won't listen because this has been their stance for "generations". I don't care. That's a dumb reason to reject anything. It's the fallacy of tradition. We also used outhouses for generations, I didn't reject indoor plumbing on that basis. Put simply: You claim, falsely, that a salary cap would reduce their earnings. I just proved that untrue. There are many, many iterations in which they make much, much more money AND have a cap. You, much like the MLBPA, is not holding a rational position with rational arguments. Stating that (your words) "all" salary cap benefits are easily dismissed is plainly wrong and stubbornly irrational. Denying a conversation about the framework when so much more money could be made based on the fallacy of tradition is stubbornly irrational. (By definition, since you are relying on a fallacy) The vast majority of MLB fans will not side with the group behaving that way. Not when they see it working well in the other three major sports.

"We've always done it this way" is not a valid argument and it's basically the only one you've got for the point I made. I proposed something that would lead to the players fleecing the owners and there being a cap. You rejected it on nothing more than "nuh uh, we haven't ever done that". That is the MLBPA's stance and it is as dumb as it sounds.

This is the dumbest fallacy that humans are attached to. Congrats on holding that view I guess.

The embarrassing string of articles on TD about how great the deadline was, how there are no more half measures, how we should celebrate this new era of Twins baseball! The diehards were bought off with two solid relievers and a sub .500 record. That's all it took. Why would the Pohlads try harder when such minimal effort leads to gushing praise from their most loyal customers?

Personally I only have them in the mix as placeholders until someone like Marek Houston or another prospect is ready to take their place. At least with Lewis and Wallner there might be some sliver of hope they can find it again rather than Bell or Caratini. I'd probably rather find some OF version of Kyle Harrison and buy low, give them playing time, and see if we can get lucky. I'm in the same boat on Jeffers - I'm locking him up because I can't think of a better way to spend the money and he can hold down the fort until Lackey is ready.

There are many, many ways for the players to get their bag AND have a salary cap/floor. The fact we can't even begin that conversation rests solely with the players. Seriously, they could come out tomorrow and demand a 300 million dollar floor AND insist on every single dollar of that going to major league salaries and allow for a cap of $500 million. Tomorrow. Hell, right now! This is well within their rights to demand as a starting point. Instead - intractable on a position that most fans feel the opposite of them on. Like it or not, politics or your thoughts about labor/capital aside, it's straight up foolish to be intractable on that position given the nature of professional sports.

Seems like only yesterday we had 10 articles lauding the "no half measures!" Pohlads and battle-crying about playoffs. Didn't even make it to September 1st.

I wish I could agree with you but I can't. This team didn't set themselves up for that timetable. I think next year is the equivalent of the 2000 Twins. Time to turn it over to a new generation and let them play. This team, unfortunately, whiffed on trading Lopez, Ryan, Jeffers, Larnach, and others that could have really put some nice pieces around the 2028 Twins. Think about how much better we'd feel with Tolle and Arias on that team. With a reliever we got back for Jeffers. For whatever Lopez would've fetched in the offseason. They're not ready to contend. They are ready, however, to start the window of a new generation of talent. Time to stop short-term thinking and start building around that.

Is Kody Clemens the guy that we've seen in April and August or the guy from May-July? Hitting him cleanup is an instant "Welp, lottery team" feel for me. I would much rather do the following: 1B - Keaschall CF - Jenkins DH - Buxton (Mixing him in the field as well, but we're at the stage where this is primarily his spot) C - Jeffers (You just need to pony up. You blew it at the deadline, letting him walk is compounding the mistake) 3B - Lee SS - Culpepper LF - Erod RF - Mendez? Wallner? Roden? FA splash? Trade? 2B - Lewis? FA guy who can play defense? Clemens worst case? I'm all done fielding low ceiling guys, who can't hit or can't field or both. This team needs to embrace being young next year and building for the future.

It probably is the best spot for a guy that simply can't throw. He could have some gritty/Dougie M vibes over there if he takes to the coaching. (He'll never be that good, but he won't be the slugger type)

Great to see a start like that from Zebby.

I do think Buxton forced himself off the IL/rushed his way back/pushed to return/whatever you want to call it. However, I think he did it for the team and wanted to help. It was also a clearly wrong decision for his health and performance, which sadly also worked against what he was trying to accomplish.

You're going to get your three guys who make some middling, after-thought amount of money in free agency like 10 million, play passionately mediocre baseball at best, and clog the 40 man.........and like it. Time honored Twins tradition.

They should have brought him up sooner. Along with Wallner, Culpepper, Erod, etc. when they realized back in July that they were pretenders. We're going to need to sober up on what this team is. It's too late for the front office to make the right moves, but we as fans don't have to stay delusional about some magical moves that would've kept this team in it. They weren't going to keep hitting like Tony Gwynn with runners on which was the only thing keeping them alive in a terrible AL. It was also highly unlikely that everyone else was going to stay terrible. All we got is this team regressing to what their run differential has been telling us since April: They're not good. They should be building for the future. That's why Jenkins should be up. Playoffs or contention was always a bad basis for decision making this year.

Ok...let's accept what you say is true. How's that working out?

Whew....glad those last 15 didnt!

There are those that are going to bristle hard at my earlier diehards remark, but posts like that are what I mean. They were bought off with two relievers. That's all it took. Two relievers for a team that has been over .500 for a total time better measured in minutes than days.

If this team fails to make the playoffs they'll have gambled on the 2026 team and lost the following: *A hot catcher market and Ryan Jeffers healthy and available. Even 50% of what the O's got for Adley Rutschman could've been a huge help to a future Twins team. Instead we have gotten a .665 OPS from a player missing a quarter to a third of games as a catcher. *A hot market for starting pitching with the last chance to get a premium value on Joe Ryan. Instead we got a couple hideous starts and an IL trip. *Trevor Larnach was at peak value. Enough that one GM was going to trade a reliever who has been lights out for months. Instead he's got a .553 OPS to go with his terrible defense. * We won't know if any of the prospects we dealt will hurt in the long run, that's TBD. The values weren't bad, but in a wasted effort anything they become only adds to the negatives. *We could have sold on Josh Bell (whose been good in August, full credit to him), Gomez (who has gone pumpkin on us), or even Ober if there was a market. Instead we got nothing. *We could have called up Jenkins and Erod long before this on a roster with playing time to give. Throw Wallner and Sabato on that list too if you want. All of this in service to an investment in a bad team. Casuals have not streamed in the gates of Target Field in appreciation of the deadline. Only diehards feel thankful in this move and diehards are called diehards for a reason. Each and every one of you who thinks that was a needle mover would tune in to Twins baseball tomorrow if they played Lew Ford at catcher. Your loyalty is already achieved. The lost assets above and missed opportunities won't come back and we will have worse than nothing to show for it....we'll also lack more resources to build around the core we might be calling up now too little, too late. On goes the grind of mediocrity. I hope those fleeting feelings of happiness were worth it.

Ah the time honored tradition of everyone in baseball being morons who can't get out of their own way.

You must be new here. It'll be labor day at the soonest before they even consider the IL!!!

Happy to see it, wish it hadn't taken another Buxton injury to get here, but better than dragging this out for another week.

For the record, I agree and thought there would be a greater disparity. Unfortunately there is no reliable way to differentiate paid vs. actually there.