old nurse

Jairo Perez? Romero? From your free agent list there would be a clue to say there is no competition out there.

There is a reason Collabello has only played a few games at 3b and none for an organization that really needs one. Expected miracles abound on Christmas.

Open your eyed up some more. What front line pitcher has ever signed with a mid market last place team. Write all the articles you want bemoaning the spending. The reality you choose to ignore is that it takes two willing parties to make a contract. Sanchez used the Cubs to get the contract out of Detroit. The trade for Shields by KC is something the Twins could not pull of because they do not have the major league ready prospects to deal that KC did. Considering the Twin's needs this did not set up to be a good free agent class. No free agent help for the MI (Steven Drew as a defensive player was a negative, .250 as a hitter, 10 mill) What free agent pitcher other than Grienke was actually a number one starter? Sanchez and Dempster were used as number two. Marcum a three. The depth of the free agency this year was in bottom of the order starters. Precisely what you are complaining about them spending money on. see any of the thousand comments on Correia. Look back through the historical free agent signing. Top of the rotation pitchers do not sign with losing mid market teams they have no connection to. So is it that you expect a miracle to happen or what?

You are reaching on your comments on how the other teams improved. Detroit essentially moved Young for Hunter. Temporary upgrade. Chicago signs a gut after a career year, resigns their own players, lose their almost all star catcher. That is improvement? Scott Kazmir was not even the best pitcher on his indi team league last year. Wade Davis was repeatedly tried as a starter by Tampa. Ended up back in the bullpen. Bankers want a return on their investment. The big dogs of free agency are not going to a last place team. (Jackson is another 3-4 starter, look back and see how teams have used him) The mediocre are not really worth the money unless you are trying to fill out a roster.

With the money the Cubs have to spend, the results should be better. Every year a new bad team.

[TABLE=width: 100%] [TR=class: ysptblthbody1] [TD=class: yspdetailttl, align: left] Date[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl, align: left]Opponent[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl, align: left]Score[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl]Dec[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl]IP[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl]H[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl]R[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl]ER[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl]HR[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl]BB[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl]K[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl]W[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl]L[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl]SV[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl]BS[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl]HLD[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl]IP[/TD] [TD=class: yspdetailttl]ERA[/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: ysprow1] [TD=class: yspscores, align: left] Sep 26[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores, align: left]NYY[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores, align: left]L 2-8[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]-[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]1.2[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]2[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]2[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores] [/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]6[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]5[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]79.0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]4.44[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores] [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: ysprow2] [TD=class: yspscores, align: left] Sep 22[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores, align: left]@ DET[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores, align: left]L 0-8[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]L[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]2.1[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]7[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]7[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]7[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]2[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]3[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]1[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores] [/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]6[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]5[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]77.1[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]4.54[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores] [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: ysprow1] [TD=class: yspscores, align: left] Sep 15[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores, align: left]CHW[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores, align: left]L 3-5[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]L[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]4.0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]3[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]4[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]4[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]1[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]5[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]6[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores] [/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]6[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]4[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]75.0[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores]3.84[/TD] [TD=class: yspscores] [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: ysprow2] [TD=class: yspscores, align: left] Deduno's last three major league starts. Don't read about him tearing up winterball either.[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]

Since the thread was on pitching. Fangraphs defines a good to great pitcher as one with a WAR above 3. There was only 35 of them last year in the majors, 46 the year before. A solid starter as one with a WAR of 2-3. There was only 36 of those last year, 21 the year before. Given those numbers are from fangraphs they should meet your standard. Random clicking on the names on the solid range of players reveals that either these pitchers are really inconsistent as their WAR score fluctuates widely, or there is an issue with the metric.

Jay, as bad as people want to quantify things, some things you can't without subjectivity. When there is subjectivity, there is error.

Ninth year will be the charm? He has been working on pitching for 9 years between the majors and the minors.

I believe that Heyman used the numbers posted on fangraphs. Having a problem with the inaccuracies of WAR?

To me, the concept of WAR is not bad, the method of the computation is the problem. Heyman had to say this on WAR Jamey Carroll has a better WAR than Derek Jeter, 2.6 to 2.5. That's absurd. And Denard Span has a better WAR than Josh Hamilton, 4.0 to 3.7. Even more ridiculous. And Heymen supports the concept

I think it is a nice idea except for the fact that there isn't a correlation between WAR and actual wins.

Is a good free agent pitcher one who has won more games than they lost? Pitches every 5th day for 6 innings? Or is the sole determinant of a good pitcher their ERA or xfip? Fangraphs calls a good player one with a WAR above three. For pitchers that would have been Sachez and Grienke. Neither were going to come here. Sanchez used the Cubs to get his deal with Detroit. There is no middle infield help that qualifies as a good player. So is your definition of good one that is average?

Maybe Terry Ryan was fooled. He thought by offering good contracts to players they would sign them. The nabobs of negativity on this board really have no idea what the dynamic is between the free agents and the teams. Blame the GM. What near all star player or better has ever signed with a mid to small market, almost devoid of talent, team as an free agent with no prior connection to the team? That is the hard part of rebuilding.

The tepid market for Jackson could be due to being on a very good team he was still only a .500 pitcher, whip 1.4, ERA of 4 in the national league, and averaged only 6 innings a game.

Now that hte high end has been set, the dominoes will fall.

If Hermsen adds MPH there should be steroid testing done. It will be interesting what develops from last year's pitching selections from the draft as they get a full year under their belt. Can Bard start. Is Baxendale a legit starter. Can any of the drafted relievers become starters.

To prove that it was framing that caused the ball or strike call there would have to be consistency in calling pitches by the umpires. I don't think you can prove that.

If you don't think they could be a 3 or better you probably don't sign any of them to much more than a minimum contract. Incentive deal for Jurrgens, maybe Karstens. Gorzelanny as a lefty insurance starter in Rochester so Duensing can stay in the pen would be a very wise investment

The number of players the Twins picked up from other organizations were not scouted by the Twins when they traded for them? That they traded for someone else's minor leaguer is no sin. BTW I think Knoublauch had to play second because there was a better SS named Gagne ahead of him.

"Maybe the Marlins didn't want anyone in the Twins system or the Twins might not have been offering some of their top prospects." Ding Ding Ding. Maybe you nailed it. What do the Twins have for highly rated prospects above the low A level? On the multiple threads about this trade the sad fact is the Twins don't have much to trade. If the 2012 draft selections pan out they will have trade chips. Not now, they have nothing to offer other than what they do not want to trade.

Do you forget that they trade a lot of their players for prospects. Gio Gonzales, Bailey and Dan Haren brought them a haul of prospects that took them to the playoffs this year?

You have a very short memory. I in the past have responded to Thyrloss with fact. What would call what you posted in response to Thryloss on Baker? If you want Thyrlos thrown off for posting inaccuracies then clean your own house first.

Then they would also have to remove you for all the garbage you posted