jokin

So, the fans should just shut up and take it?, when year after year in the last decade, it was obvious that the club was more than happy to try and clean up with an artificially inflated win total in a clearly inferior division- likely many years the worst in baseball- and it was also obvious that the Twins would be repeatedly embarrassed in the postseason by this lack of dynamic thinking? Oh, and when did the A's and Rays intentionally try to get themselves contracted or get themselves a new stadium?

I'm not sure what "praise as a model franchise" should have been deserved for: trying to get yourself contracted out of baseball for profit, going 2-15 in the postseason since 2003 in 5 playoff series, not making any legitimate attempt at improving or changing philosophical approach in direct response to continued negative postseason outcomes since 2002, letting star-value & above-replacement players walk away for nothing or traded away for practically nothing, year-after-year failure at recognizing franchise blind spots in developmental flaws within the organization and demonstrated continued inability to scout, identify and sign prospects and veterans for positions of weakness (especially when they were in unfavorable draft position- Levi Michael, Ben Revere...?), failure to acknowledge and understand that the windows have closed on past market inefficiencies in player worth- and openly mocking proven modern valuation techniques, failure to have in place a legitimate Plan A and Plan B for building a ballpark to match the personnel strengths and putting up the white flags of surrender at the first sign of said failure, while still in the transition phase to the new stadium.

Yeah, because the side that wants a change in philosophy is all-about, and only about, $300M FA contracts and trading away big-time prospects for marginal 2-year FA upgrades.

Ah, to the chance to get a do-over in 2013. Are we going back in time, then? I suspect they will attempt to re-sign Pelfrey and look to deal one of Correia, Worley and Hendriks. Deduno and Walters will likely still be hanging around on the depth chart in some capacity next spring (2014).

Just wondering....Do you get overtime for: moderating the forum, consulting and reposting the comment policy and then pithily putting us pissants back in our places after midnight?

What' No one mentioned Eartha Kitt?

Don't get your hopes up unless you really like PJ Walters' long-term chances. Same age, similar stat line, 10th round/11th round draft picks. With the difference that Walters is a 6-time AAA pitcher and Albers has been coming back from arm troubles for 3 years.

Good article. The Gibson summation is pretty comprehensive. On Slowey though, I'm not sure. The Marlins started him on short rest on Wednesday night (after his marathon performance in relief in the marathon game on Saturday night), and he left that game with a pulled muscle. The Marlins have another young arm available and want to get him out there- that's what rebuilding teams are supposed to do. Plus, they are going to shut down another youngster and will be sellers coming up soon. Ricky Nolasco gets them another nice haul and Slowey either moves back into the rotation or gets traded to a contender himself. I stand by my earlier prediction on Trevor May. He gets the call-up in August or September after the trades and/or shutdowns.

Sorry to hear about Mejia, but I'm afraid that that was what I expected. I would agree that most of the rest of the roster doesn't project well, but I would hold out some hope for Vargas along with Jones. I'm awaiting your next report when the reinforcements arrive from Cedar Rapids.

FWIW- Halle won the 2004 Razzie for her alleged "portrayal" of CW.

Absolutely nothing...

Fixed it for you...

Newsflash to diehards everywhere, I posted this factual information yesterday when Wil Myers was officially promoted. The clock is now ticking. We're all waiting for even more consistency. It's part of "the plan." Being the 2nd best-rated FIP pitcher and being a very good, to lights-out effective starter in 7 of your last 10 starts in AAA is simply not enough. Let's gather even more information about guys who have close to Zero Percent chance of being here when the games mean something again, cause that's what rebuilding teams are supposed to do (according to the plan? What plan?)

Which all can be adjusted for at the major league level. Pitch counts remedy this concern completely. If he is going to need to be afforded this level of babying over his slider issues than he really isn't a major league SP prospect anymore. Sounds like you're nominating Gibson to a permanent place on the Red Wings.

Spot on, simply pithily on point. Why is this so hard for those to understand that finding those innings at the small expense of fringe starters losing those innings is most beneficial to a club in "rebuilding" mode? And, what ever happened to "no more scholarships." Did the "plan" change when I wasn't looking?

Your last paragraph attempt at humor was Death Valley dry. And my last paragraph had admittedly conflated thoughts, but I closed the paragraph by saying that Gibson would have been given the chance to pitch to be a significant SP contributor this year on at least half the teams in the majors. And he would be a solid contributor to the Orioles, at minimum, in the sense that Gausman's body of work thus far can be considered contributory. Let's not pick "dry as dust", nits, shall we? On Walters, I believe I was the first one on TD (still waiting for my prize winnings- I'll take either Jarts or a Zip Wing Rocket Glider) to call for, and predict that PJ would get the first call-up over Gibson. He still shouldn't be part of the long-term plan, nothing suggests any screaming that he's a long-term necessity- nothing. And I'll counter your second dry and wry comment with this: The Twins aren't willing to push younger guys because they won't- because they're very, very...er... frugal. And who said it's either Walters or Gibson? Generally, your best guys who project to the future should be given priority in pitching opportunities, especially when you're presumably "rebuilding". The guy with the second best FIP in the IL doesn't deserve a chance? Really? Oh, BTW, Gibson's numbers are better than Walter's numbers at Roc. This doesn't have to be either Walters or Gibson. If they truly are building for the future, then Gibson has to be in the rotation to get his baptism of fire out of the way and help both him and the team make more informed decisions about how to proceed with his career path. The Twins are carrying 13 pitchers, how about a 6 man rotation, or how about giving Gibson 4-5 innings and one of the other SP guys not part of the future the other 4-5. This can be done in a way that makes everyone a winner. It might even be considered, "a plan."

Secondhand quotes, in that Ryan didn't want to be pinned down specifically to an exact number in a quote. What was asked of him after he said they were going to limit Gibson's innings, was something to the effect of: "Limit his innings? So less than 150 but more than 125?" Ryan responded: "Yep." There's your second-hand quote, just as legitimate as a first-hand quote, if you choose to take the blinders off. The other quotes played off of what was initially reported from- and directly attributed to- Terry Ryan, as the source for the innings-limitation ground rules that were set. This isn't that hard, unless you're willfully refusing to see it. Terry Ryan is playing it smart, especially after he saw the reprecussions from the PR disaster with Strasburg last season. Your last two paragraphs are a grumbling admission to playing with semantics and succeeds in missing the big picture completely- Gibson has been down in AAA for too long, the Twins FO has laid out a myriad of excuses, reasons and "plans" that FAIL in any way to make sense for him not being called up--- except for one thing---extending his indentured servitude for the club's financial benefit is a bigger priority than promoting and developing Gibson's career at a quicker rate.

The examples you cited were why the Orioles were willing to push the younger guys through. You see, they want to objectively determine what they have- at the major league level- with Bundy, Gausman, et al. They are sick of having to trot out Hammel, Britton and Garcia if they find out--- by using actual major league results-- that they don't have to do so. And that's the point. The Orioles are quick to find out just where their truly quality prospect players are at relative to making a solid and CONSISTENT contribution at the major league level. RB, you're much better than your last throwaway paragraph. If Gausman has been given the rope that he's been given, Gibson- with similar numbers to Gausman's AA numbers, but at the next level higher, AAA- would clearly have been given the exact same opportunity to pitch with the big club......so yeah, it's a safe bet that Gibson would have been given the chance to be a solid contributor with the Orioles.

Which, if true, directly contradicts what was said by TR in the spring about "easing" up on Gibson in April and May and looking for ways to fit him in their major league plans in "June, July and August." That last line about August is pretty indicative that they were intent on shutting him down early for the year from the get-go. At this point, if your "fresh start" scenario plays out, I would think that Gibson's agent will have been provided grounds for filing a grievance.

Yeah, that's why Twins fans often forget that other teams actually put a premium on selecting, developing and maintaining a decent depth chart worth of potential quality SP options.

It all depends on how much the Reds end up really needing Perkins now. They are on unfamiliar ground for Twins fans, their starting pitching depth is good enough to absorb losing a top prospect. Although, as I proposed earlier in this thread, they would seem unlikely to dump a more sure thing in Cingrani,- Stephenson is probably it, and might be well worth considering for the Twins, as this type of dice-rolling seems to be the only viable way they would consider pursuing a potential future ace.

You say "vague", I see specific numbers being specifically attributed to the GM as the source. You say "what is the plan?" I say, "what is the plan?" RE: the second quote of mine that you question goes back to cause. Since Ryan said the Medlen option was on the table, what do you see in their alleged "plan" that has included "easing Gibson in as we go in to April and May"? He's pitched multiple complete games in Roc. and has pretty much used up 60% of his available innings during his "ease up" period, they aren't exactly following through with the "having him available" for very much time in June, July and August, now, are they Jay?

Plus, if the TD posters who either blindly back the front office or "don't care" because it "doesn't matter", would argue that we aren't going to be competitive until 2015, no wait, 2016, so, "there's no rush, look at how well the Deduno Timeline has worked out, let's EASE Gibson in at age 28. We simply first HAVE to see what we have in Walters, Hernandez, Hendriks, Hermsen, Albers, Vasquez......"

"Don't know exactly what the plan is?" Yes "Vague?" Not so much Earlier this offseason, GM Terry Ryan said he expects Gibson to be limited to 140 innings in 2013. Source: ESPN 1500 Twin Cities It was reported earlier this offseason that the Twins plan to limit Gibson to between 130-140 innings as he works his way back from Tommy John surgery, so the move would allow the 25-year-old right-hander to get to the big leagues as soon as possible. Twins GM Terry Ryan indicated that they may use Gibson similar to how the Braves used Kris Medlen last season, where he began the year in the bullpen, and then transitioned to the rotation after the all-star break. Source: 1500 ESPN Twin Cities "I think we'll probably ease it in as we go into April and May, then hopefully have him available for how we want to use him in June, July and August," GM Terry Ryan said. "We've got to monitor him closely." Source: 1500 ESPN Twin Cities Baseball America's Jim Shonerd says Kyle Gibson could be an option for the Twins if he continues to string together a few more dominant starts at Triple-A Rochester. The Twins are usually on the conservative end of promotions, but Gibson would provide an immediate upgrade to a starting rotation that currently lacks any viable starters. In six Triple-A starts, Gibson has a 4.26 ERA with a 7.7 SO/9 and 1.29 WHIP. After missing most of 2012 due to Tommy John surgery, Gibson is expected to be on a 130-140 innings limit this season. Source: Baseball America May 4 - 8:39 AM

Dylan Bundy, Manny Machado and Kevin Gausman got thrust into the major leagues. Machado's and Gausman's minor league numbers ranged from mediocre to crappy and Bundy was good, not great, and he was only 19, but they were "rewarded" because they were the best options in making their organization better for the long-term. For all the ridiculous rationalizations I've seen written about this topic in this thread, it's a fairly safe bet that Kyle Gibson would be a solid contributor in the Orioles rotation right now, as in today. And at age 26, look around the league, he'd at least have been given the chance to be a contributor for at least half of the teams, contenders and non-contenders alike.