greengoblinrulz

why ANYONE tries the 3/4month rest/rehab baffles me as I dont believe its worked for anyone. Aroldis Vizcaino of ATL was able to put it off a yr or so in 2010 & is considered a success story before he needed TJ this yr. I dont think there is a success story of rehab, is there???

major league player

RPig......again, not really argueing against your last post but only 1 stuck in 10 yrs??? MN definately ran into some bad luck with Kubel/Liriano that necessitated the demotion, so that counts also. You still think you'ld have had more than 1 in 10 yrs that stuck while DET had Avila, Porcello, Jackson, Zumaya & CHI had Sale, Reed, Beckham, Danks. Funny lookin thru players that Verlander didnt stick (2 July starts in 05 before stickin in 06). Just personally dont think this front office/manager are ok with younger players (prob most mgrs arent) & I dont have confidence that this team can rebuild that way.....prefer the Carroll/Zumaya/Marquis/Willy/Doumit way of rebuilding. Afraid that could turn MN back into 96-98 style team

Not argueing against ya Pig, just continueing my own arguement, but defintately thought about the fact that MN contended over that decade...but were they the only club to contend & not develop young players?? On Delmon....in 05/06 he played 147 AAA gms & hit .303/.325/.476 AFTER bein promoted in 05 from AA were in 84gms he hit .336/.386/.582. What more did he have to do in the minors??? He hit .290 that first yr in MN (.284 & .298 next 2)....I think he is what he is....but others say it was the MN system that stopped his power development. He played RF in Tampa (pretty good org) & never an inning there here to see if he was more confortable??? They thought so little of their own 23 yr old Denard Span that in 07, they didnt promote him in Sept of that year (was on 40 man roster already), dealt for another CF that winter but found out he was the better player all along. WHY...cause they dont give their own young guys a chance. IF anyone is criticizing DET/CHI for rushing prospects, those 2 are the role models of teams in this division this past decade, not MN, as they've also made multiple playoff appearances & ***gasp****World Series appearances. They have contended and won & also had young players, that stuck, make a difference....(Avila, Zumaya, Porcello, AJackson for DET) (Danks, Bekcham, Sale, Reed, Quintana for Sox)

I initially posted this in the Liriano trade thread..but the more I think of it, the more it bothers/interests me. Since Gardy took over in 2002 (10ys) there have been ONLY 10 players to make their MLB debut at age 23 & under.....NOT including Sept callups for their debuts. Kevin Slowey 23....Scott Baker 23...Anthony Swarzak 23....Adam Johnson 23....Matt Garza 22....Justin Morneau 22....Wilson Ramos 22.....Alex Burnett 22....Jessie Crain 21....Joe Mauer 20 Sept callups 23 & under Glen Perkins 23....Chris Parmellee 23...Joe Benson 23...Jose MiJares 23...Rob Bowen 23....Michael Restovich 23.....Jason Kubel 22....JD Durbin 22.....Liam Hendriks 22....Ben Revere 22....Francisco Liriano 21....Alexi Casilla 21 EVERY single one of these 22 guys (except Joe Mauer) was then optioned back to the minors eventually. I undestand that a majortity of players dont stick after their initial debut....but 21 of 22 didnt?? Isnt that incredibly low to you?? Now, with only 10 guys......we have obtained 5 players from other organizations in trades who made their debuts 23 & under.....CGomez, DYoung, LOliveras, EEscobar & PHernandez. We have supposedy one of the better farm systems in baseball over the past 10yrs, but we consider other teams prospects, 3 of 5 were 'fringe', better than our own??? Escobar & Hernandez (obtained from what Baseball America has as the 30th ranked farm system) are now the 2 of the 3 youngest players (w/Liam Hendriks) on the ROC roster. Tom Kelly had a reputation as bein terrible with young players & had several highly rated prospects flame out on him while developing very few. Gardy learned under this system & just isnt fond of young players either. If we are gonna rebuild with youth, a different organizational mindset is gonna be needed. Is Gardy the right guy for this?

The fact that both players are the youngest on the ROC roster is a joke in itself. They were 2 lowly rated prospects from a team that Baseball America rated as the worst farm sytsem in MLB starting the year. Why arent OUR players at that age in AAA??? MN rated 18th by BA starting the season. MN just refuses to promote its own guys & makes players play multiple years at a level when they no longer need to & stagnate them.

someone should have to answer to the thought process in this.....have the surgery in April & be ready for next year. If rest works, you're back in late July/Aug & pitch only a handful of innings & still dont know if it worked

Definately one of the top strikeout pitchers in the organizaton right now & someone to keep an eye on

Ive got the actual handbook.....guess the website could be different.Noticed on some websites that as soon as the player loses rookie status, they are taken off the prospcts list. Simon Castro at #3 was acquired with Hernandez in the CQuentin deal & wasnt w/Sox yet in the book....so that probably knocked Escobar down to 11th. Casto was 14th for SD but 3rd for CHI, showing how lacking the Sox system was as BA had SOX ranked last & SD 8th(again in the book).

manship is out of options this winter & we've seen 4 yrs of his work in relief. I wouldnt mind seein him get some starts & see if his good work this yr in ROC was a mirage or if he's better suited to start Dont want him turning into another teams Sam Deduno or PJ Walters next yr if we dont give him a chance.

Gardy coulda moved Butera to be Deduno's C after havin him last Sun in KC, but Mauer showing last nite it wasnt Drew.....there is no reason for him to be on this team (if there is, no reason for him to EVER start a game with our 2 current Cs).

Do believe Twins want Benson/Tosoni back in ROC, but only Benson has played well enough to get the promotion. Problem is, the organization will not release a guy to open up a spot for someon.....they've never operated this way. With Carson, Thomas & Ramirez there (none to be with team next year), none are playing bad enought to be released, so MN is probably hopin one of em gets hurt to open up a spot.

DFAd Steve Pearce last wk.....guy who was starting for em in left field.......grasping at straws

Escobar is just a week of ABs (24 I believe) away from not bein a prospect anymore. So he was dealt for Matt Tolbert and Jeff Manship

grrrrrrrrrrr........how is it that the Twins are the ONLY peole who didnt see this coming?????

nice

At least if we trade Span, we have multiple OFs in the system just about ready. There isnt a pitcher in sight anywhere (tho I like Hendriks alot still)

Have we heard who is called up from ROC......Oliveras is my guess for now.

Who plays SS in ROC now....Escobar a great field, no hit player or Pedro Florimon a great field no hit player????

John, you missed it. Escobar was 10th by Baseball America entering the 2012 season. He was also 5th for the Sox entering the 2011 season He was also 19th entering the 2010 season. Still suxx no matter where he was listed Dont we already have this guy, just names Pedro Florimon in AAA??

Drew was single handidly responsible for getting us the 2 C level prospects......Thank you Drew As if I coldnt respect you more!!!

Kevin Slowey was 23....Scott Baker was 23....Anthony Swarzak was 23.....Adam Johnson was 23....Jose MiJares was 23 (Sept) ...Rob Bowen was 23 (Sept) ....Michael Restovich was 23 (Sept).....Matt Garza was 22....Wilson Ramos was 22......Jason Kubel was 22 (Sept).....JD Durbin was 22 (Sept).....Jessie Crain was 21.....Francisco Liriano was 21 (Sept)All I found in the Gardy era Non Sept debuts.....10 players in 10 years in Gardy era made their debuts with him at 23 yrs old or younger.

@ RochesterLuke French was 23 in his debut w/SEA, Eric Hurley was 22 w/TEX, Shairon Martis was 21 w/Wash, Sean Burroughs was 21 w/SD......so its not always a good thing

Just an observation.... MN seems to be more likely to trade for a player w/MLB experience than bring up their own How often have the Twins called up a player to make their debut @ 23 or younger (not including Sept callups).....not often Both players obtained today @ 23 made their MLB debuts this year Delmon, CGomez both made their debuts with another team @ 21...Lester Oliveras was 23 w/DET Of this roster....Mauer is one @ 21, Alex Burnett was 22, Liam Hendriks was 22 (Sept) , Perk was 23 (Sept..4gms) Alexi was 21 (Sept), Justin 22, Revere 22 (Sept), Benson/Parmellee (both 23 & Sept callups).

With this trade, the Capps resigning (no draft pick), & not dafting the highest guys available (LBard).....can we surmize Terry Ryan isnt a great fan of sandwich picks