tony&rodney

Cool that you added Cesar. He was such an exciting player and can easily be left off of an all time team and utility players have always been critical components of great teams. Tovar belongs, for sure.

Nash, I appreciate your (and others) efforts to keep the content going on Twins Daily; the posts are admirable in the face of the disappointing lack of moves by Falvey. I find it increasingly difficult to engage. The Baltimore Orioles have much better pitching prospects than the Minnesota Twins at this time. Do we wish to emulate the Orioles? The Detroit Tigers and Kansas City have blended in a number of pitchers in the last few years, all of whom were much more highly rated than any of the Twins pitching prospects. The Tigers did not put forth their prospects solo. It is quite confusing how anyone can believe that using just our pitching prospects can bring a positive result. Currently, the Twins have only Dylan Bundy slated for their starting rotation. Can anyone point to a rotation that had anything resembling this and managed to avoid 90-110+ losses? Not to be a downer, but the Pohlad family has made a fortune on the Twins alone, and I don't care about that except if they abuse the public trust made when Target Field was built with tax dollars. A budget of less than $120-160 million is an abuse of that trust. This leaves a single option for after the entire CBA debacle is settled. The Twins will need to frantically find a way to sign and trade for three starting pitchers, a shortstop, and a relief pitcher. The names mentioned all work for less than the money available: Story, Rodon, Pineda, etc. via the free agent market and some folks like Bassitt, Manaea, Montas, etc. via the trades. Some combination of players (some unnamed) will need to be added to fill the holes. A rebuild isn't necessary for financial reasons by any calculus and a rebuild due to a failure to sign or trade any decent players would be be nothing short of illuminating an epic weakness in management. I remain hopeful and supportive that the FO will be able to accomplish the moves needed to roster a competitive team and hope everyone has a positive holidays as we all wait for the renewal of the conversations needed to negotiate an end to the impasse between MLB owners and the MLBPA.

Ok, you don't like Buxton or his new contract. Ok, no problem. Now, I think you need to specifically tell the readers of this post what you believe the team's budget will be for 2022. Will you use $75 M? $100 M? $150 M? What do you think? Subsequently, show us what players, specifically, make up your roster. Who exactly will you sign? This will help others, like myself, try to understand your views. Until you put forth a specific roster it is really hard to see your point. Perhaps the Twins go with a $80 million or lower roster next year and beyond and then everyone else who believes in Buxton would need to reconsider how their rosters were composed. Put your roster out for us.

This makes sense if the "resources" referred to limit the Twins to a budget of $100 M. A number of comments have seen a contract for Story as limiting the team's options and/or restricting a future for Lewis/Martin. This is confusing to me unless those making these arguments are thinking the budget is near $100 M. I totally understand the reticence if $100 M is the team limit. The argument concerning a block for Lewis/Martin makes little sense. No team ever blocks a superior player; there is always room in any lineup for a player who displays the skills. Again, if those who oppose any signing of Story believe he is not a viable starting shortstop, then i can accept their point. It never hurts to have too much talent, but some will question whether Story is worthwhile at any price. The entire decision boils down to a judgment on talent and then a knowledge of the actual budget ceiling. No money = no interest or there is money but the talent is not worthy. In any event, we wait.

So happy. One of the most kind people to walk the planet. In 1967 he came with a rookie, Rod Carew, to our school and he was funny and said what an honor it was to be around school age kids. I met him when I sold beer at the Metrodome and he was even more impressive as he aged. My parents and many of their friends took in Cuba families fleeing Castro's regime and Tony Oliva was a legend among their community. If you never saw him play, it would be hard to explain what an amazing hitter he was for his too brief career. There were polls of pitchers in the 1960s and early 1970s (maybe there still are polls - I don't know) and Tony O was always amongst the top five most feared and respected hitters by pitchers in the American League. Congratulations to the only hero I ever had outside of family. Tony Oliva - member of the Baseball Hall of Fame sounds perfect.

Why not? Do you think the budget will be near $110 M? Read the comments by TopGun#22. You are correct if the budget is $90-110 M. A lower budget throws nearly every move suggested and discussed on Twins Daily away. Falvey specifically stated that the Twins would be competitive next season. A budget from $90- 100 M will not put a competitive team on the field. I would use "competitive" to mean 80 or more wins in a season. Naturally, there could be other limits used for the term. Again, many on TD want a few years of letting prospects learn on the job, so there are differences of opinion about a direction forward (1-5 years) for the Twins. There does seem to be an idea that adding pitching via trade of players who have 1-2 years left as only a short term plan, but that is not correct as experienced pitchers allow younger pitchers to mentor them, serve as examples, and release the pressures of being the main pitcher.

What money? Who would you suggest be signed? What do you believe the budget should be?

This may be possible but what free agent pitchers are we targeting that will take up the budget? What is your budget? $90 M? $100 M? .... $150 M? It makes a difference whether you plan to spend $90 or $150 M or any point in between. I believe enough examples have shown that Story and three good pitchers via trade will fit within a budget of near $120 M. No trades or Story make sense at a budget of $90 M. There are not pitchers available as free agents to spend money on at this time other than a risky deal for Rodon which seems completely unlikely when the Twins were not interested in any of the other free agent pitchers in that price range. Of course, never say never. The argument against Story no longer involves money unless the Twins have already maxed out their budget.

The roster was done to show a couple of givens: 1) any budget to $120 M makes the Twins a possible contender; 2) Story fits on that budget; 3) there is room to add three pitchers in trades; and 4) to question whether the actual budget is really going to be near $95-105 M. I purposely left the pitching roster unfilled (names were inserted as minimum salaries) because it shows that a contending team can add three pitchers and what a team (with rookies only starting pitching) looking to win 70-75 games would look like. There are a number of very skeptical, pessimistic, sarcastic, and negative Twins fans who mock attempts by those who believe the team can be competitive in 2022. I don't know, perhaps it is time to end all discussions about the Twins and the potential 2022 rosters. MLB is locked out and I get those who want to lock out baseball, but lifetime fans keep dragging their hopes along.

Below is a roster with Story. It includes the players the Twins have currently. The numbers are close. Additional signings and trades would add to the total. What is not clear at all is the budget set by Pohlad. The lack of action may mean that $100-110 M is what Falvey has been handed. Many of us used $130 M. If a budget can accommodate $120 M, more or less, then Story with the additions via trades suggested by many like TopGun#22 work and serve the team best for both 2022 and the future. Adding Bassitt and Montas adds $12.6 M (CB-$8.8 M plus FM-$5.2 M minus those two displaced, $1.4), but subtracts $1.4 M (Arraez -$2 M minus rookie salary) bringing the total to $120.45. If there is room to spend $120-130 M, there is zero reason not to make all efforts within reason to bring in pitchers with experience to help the Twins young prospects learn and grow. A figure of $100 M totally changes the entire look and plans need to reflect that reality.

Story fits at $130 M if the Twins can trade for Cabrera or Meyer instead of signing Pineda, but Big Mike does have experience. Story fits either way at less than $140 M. This all just says that there are options. A number of people see opportunity and try to avoid the taste of pessimism. We hope Falvey is an optimist.

Especially if it fits in a budget less than $130 million.

A few people have watched me work through the years, but they didn't stay long and they never paid to watch.

There was zero reason for Manfred to write a letter to fans. The negotiations should be between the two parties within a room. Clearly, without going into everything, there is blame that may be cast upon either party but the letter was egregious and nonproductive.

The Pohlad's, by many accounts, have been good citizens. Nevertheless, Carl paid $5 million down to Calvin Griffith and the remainder in $5 million per year payments. MLB approves who can buy. It is a closed club as Mark Cuban found out. The owners do invest their profits back into their team on occasion but also manage to have the public pay for their stadiums. The owners would laugh at being restricted to a lifetime earnings of any player much less needing to go through the work necessary to reach those levels. I'm not against the owners making big money but their pride in keeping such tight control over the players is a little weird. They could agree to share revenues at a level of near 55% for the players and still make bank. There was a poll a number of years ago and the gist of it was that 75% of the population believed they would reach the upper 1% in wealth through their hard work. This explains why common people often support the uber wealthy over the working class or as Bob Dylan would say, "Everyone sees there self walking around with no one else".

I think we are on the same page but expressing it differently perhaps. I might be more willing to trade some field players, for example. Others have given the same ideas in an attempt to bolster the starting staff. The main issue remains the budget. I never expected the Twins to sign two pitchers above the Bundy level. I have targeted Miami, Oakland, and Cincinnati. My preference is to hold on to Ober, Winder, Duran, Balazovic, Woods-Richardson, and Petty. I don't know the price of pitching but am trying to pry Bassitt and Montas away for Arraez, Larnach, and Strotman. I agree that Strotman has potential and suggest Oakland may believe the same. Additionally, if the Twins could sign Story, I would use Martin or Lewis and a pitcher to see if Miami would trade Meyer and Cabrera (unlikely) or CIN might trade Castillo for a package. The Miami trade would return young pitchers more highly rated than any of ours. In any event these trades would only diminish our stock of prospects by two prospects while returning three accomplished starters. Story is doable and allows the Twins to use prospect capital. My main point is that our young pitchers need some experienced arms to lead the way as they are initiated into MLB.

The Twins have three pitchers rated by MLB as 55, four as 50, and three more as 45. There are others with bright futures too. Vallimont, Raya, and Varland rate as 40. The trick is who might interest another team. Oakland has two at 50 and three rated at 45 for comparison. Don't you believe that the Twins could trade one from each group possibly in combination with some field players to gain good pitchers? I guess my focus is to maximize the resources we already have to fill what we need, and those pitchers added via trade would complement Buxton, Polanco, Donaldson, et al. It will be tough but it can be done, I believe.

The Twins can still sign Story, trade for three good pitchers, and have a roster budget below $120 million. Falvey needs to work throughout the lockout, maybe some cocktail parties with Oakland, Miami, Cincy, and Milwaukee.

Jamie, these are sound ideas. The key is not what we want, although this is important, but what Oakland or another team sees as important for their team. There is some good for both teams in a MN-OAK trade. Bassitt and Montas might require a bit more than Larnach, Arraez, and Cavaco. Add Canterino and Strotman, even add Dobnak to close the deal, although I might agree to add even more. I'm also still wishing to pry away a young Miami pitcher too (unlikely) by trading Lewis and Duffey for Cabrera and Meyer. This trade would only be done with the Twins signing Trevor Story to a contract for 6/$132 million. The current roster plus these changes result in a roster for about $120 million. The Twins still have a number of other options too. They could bring in an experienced reserve corner outfielder quite inexpensively. They also have retained minor league players such as Kirilloff, Rortvedt, Martin, Miranda, Celestino, Wallner, Miller, Sabato, Rodriguez, Urbina, and pitchers such as Ryan, Ober, Duran, Winder, Balazovic, Woods-Richardson, Sands, Petty, Enlow, Raya, and Varland. The Twins can afford to part with a few pieces if they can find the partner who looks favorably on our offers. The core of Buxton, Polanco, and others are ready and just need a little boost from the pitching staff. Falvey will unfold his plan in time. The money is not a problem in any way. A roster for less than $120 million is affordable for the Twins franchise.

This all goes right back to the budget, where we were when the World Series ended. Use $130 million. Take the current roster (@$85-88), add suggested trades from TopGun#22 that includes Montas ($5.2) and Bassitt ($8.8), sign Pineda ($7-8), and there is still room for a 6/$120-132 million contract for Story. Additionally, if Story is signed the Twins could use either Martin or Lewis in a trade for the right return. There are options and it will be a matter of how Falvey is able to communicate with agents and others. Will the Twins take some risks via trade and a few free agent signings? Or back to the beginning - is the budget for 2022 really closer to $100 million than $130 million?

Opinions differ. They are similar. The money will almost surely favor Berrios though. Berrios is no longer a Twin, but he did everything possible to succeed and i wish him well.

The post was good, a reasonable suggestion. Thank you Nash. Internet trolls - not needed and boring. Twins fans will need to wait until the CBA is finalized to see if the team can be put together in ways many have mentioned, such as this post by Nash Walker. Unless, .... there is a last minute deal tonight.

Maybe, but the Twins pitchers need to protect Buxton in kind. I'm not a fan of this but the reality has always existed.

Nash, I'm all in on this post - great idea for the Twins. I would want one more pitcher too in a trade. I did chuckle at your last sentence though ... one of the best .. since last year; good sense of humor there. Despite the reputation of the Twins always struggling with pitching staffs, they have had some really good pitchers some years. Let's see it get done. The Twins have about $85 million on the books right now and $35 million more for pitchers wouldn't kill them.

I also believe that Stroman will get a 5/$100 contract. Stroman is a solid pitcher but not as accomplished as Berrios. It seems unlikely that the Twins would pay Stroman more than $17-18 per year when they were not interested in a long term contract with Berrios like 6/$120. I'm not so sure that avoiding Stroman is unsound. I preferred Berrios. The better value is via trade if that can be accomplished. Twins Daily commenters keep churning out ideas and I'm sure the Twins are sifting through scenarios as well. We will need to wait but I sure hope they can pry away a few good pitchers in trades.