Riverbrian

According to some. They produce these spreadsheets that Rocco should ignore.

Which Part? If it was only a part. What was the rest of the process?

His Health is the reason why you don't. Everything else is the reason why you do. Here's a thought exercise. Look at our current roster of hitters. Rank them 1 through 10. Here's mine 1. Buxton 2. Arraez 3. Polanco 4. Miranda 5. Urshela You don't have to go all the way to 10 in your rankings. Once you get to 3 you realize that you need a bopper that is easily in that top 3. Haniger has consistently been that guy when healthy.

He really doesn't.

This was the quote I responded to. To think Jim Pohlad has any working knowledge of how things work with player negotiations is beyond generous. Carl died in 2009. If you are suggesting that over 13 years Jim has managed to not asborb "any working knowledge of player negotiations" is pretty incredible... especially when you consider that the "baseball people" that HE hired are negotiating with not just his money but also that of his brothers he represents as the one in charge of the day to day operations of the franchise. You are suggesting that he has never been asked for budget increase requests by the baseball people that he hired to negotiate with players, nor received explanations, reasoning, justifications for such requests. You are suggesting that he has never been briefed on the results or status of any negotiations over 13 years. If you are not suggesting that he hasn't briefed, updated during his 13 years as the one in charge. Then you can only be suggesting that he is unable to retain anything from the briefings, updates, meetings, casual conversation. The representative of the ownership group. the guy who ultimately fired Terry Ryan and hired Derek Falvey as his "baseball people". The guy who not only has access to the room that you and I don't have access to but actually OWNS the room. He doesn't have working knowledge of how baseball negotiations work? The level of engagement or incompetence that you are painting is beyond any reasonable logic, that it's equal to anyone who claims that Rocco is an idiot when trying to express their frustration. 30 Manager Jobs paying over a million a year and not only have they hired an idiot but they have retained an idiot. I've never met the man... I've listened to him speak during interviews. I don't believe that Rocco is an idiot because the odds of his being an idiot and not only hired but retained are incredibly low and the same goes for the level of aloofness of Jim Pohlad that you are trying to pass along to the rest of us. Any such suggestion is not worthy of space or consideration.

I'm trying to understand the logic in this discussion. If we trade Kepler with a career .232 BA and 1 year left at 8.5M on his contract before a club option at 10m. We could acquire Joey Gallo with a .199 BA for a 1 year deal at 10M to replace him. We hope that Kepler will benefit from the banning of the shift, while we believe that Gallo could benefit from the banning of the shift. It's been my experience in life that treading water doesn't get you very far. One other thing... I've seen a lot of comments about a potential Kepler trade. I assume this sentiment comes from his performance the past two years. If he performed well, we wouldn't be talking about a potential trade. So to recap: We have lots of folks that want to trade Kepler. We also have lots of folks that list Kepler as our 2023 RF and 2nd best outfielder. And... And... We have lots of folks who say OF is not a top priority. ?

I know this statement will be controversial. The Twins do need to prepare for the possibility that they are in contention at the trade deadline. Meaning: They do need to look at the current prospect inventory and factor in today and tomorrow when looking at the trade market.

I fail to understand why Kepler needs to be traded in order to make room for anyone. I struggle to identify any teams out of the 29 choices that would be interested in trading a corner outfielder who followed a season of .211/.306/.413. with a season of .227/.318/.348 with an 8.5 million dollar bill attached. I'm also picking up an implication that Kepler DOES NOT have to vie for at-bats. While Kirilloff, Larnach, Wallner and Gordon do. I guess... I wonder why Kepler does not have to vie for at-bats after two poor seasons at the plate back to back. Why are many absolutely willing to give Kepler an everyday job and look elsewhere for team improvement? I rank a big bopper in the OF as our #1 need this off-season and back to back poor season is why. Kep can keep a job as the guy who plays CF when Buxton is hurt and vies for at-bats when Buxton is healthy. Until he finds whatever he lost from 2019.

Agreed - The 40 man spot has enormous value - Starting Pitchers and Relievers are going to take up the majority of 40 man space. It leaves no room to screw around on the position player side. We have an entire off-season to go, keeping a 40 man spot remains to be seen so I won't personally react at this moment in time.

I am always amazed by how easily blame can be confidently matter-of-factly assigned to a process or person that you have no access to.

In 2018 Alcala was the Astros 7th ranked Prospect Celestino was the Astros 23rd ranked prospect To compare and contrast In 2018 Brusdar Graterol was the Twins 7th Ranked Prospect Luis Arraez was the Twins 23rd Ranked Prospect At the trade deadline... Buyers Buy and Sellers Sell. The Twins were sellers... Is it possible that the Astros met the price on a big ask?

Wow... You are big meanie. ? I'll rank this #1 with the right to adjust if new mistakes trump it in the future. But... you gotta put this #1 for three reasons. 1. Matt Belisle - They signed Matt Belisle for 1M to mop up a year that they were selling Pressly at the trade deadline to keep Anderson off the roster. 2. He immediately started throwing bullets for Miami at league minimum salary with a full 6 years of control after being traded for basically nothing. 3. The Twins filled the bullpen in 2019 with nobody close to what he did in the next two seasons. When it comes to talent assessment that is as bad as it gets so #1 even when considering how many innings he threw for other squads. I wouldn't dismiss that performance in Miami so quickly in order to reduce him down to your 32.2. He hung a zero in 35 out of 45 appearances over 43.2 for the fish. He coughed up 5 runs to the Braves on May 4th with a sequence of infield single, single, FC (out at home), double (1 run), IBB to load the based, K with the bases loaded, Grand Slam (4 runs). He also had a 3 earned/zero outs against the Mets on May 17 when Romo allowed two two of his 3 earned runs to score. He sucked in two games for Miami and while only allowed 3 inherited runners to score with the Fish. Tampa wasn't too concerned with that 3.92 ERA that cause you to steal innings from him. Rays gave up their 4th best prospect to bring him across alligator alley. And Playoffs? In 2019 he made 4 appearances hanging zeroes in 3 of them including striking out 4 in 1.1 IP against the Oakland A's in the Wild Card Game. I will grant you your 2020 playoff complaint. His SO% really dropped in the playoffs that year and he was creating base traffic at a mortal level. I'll give you the 2020 playoffs but you got to give him those 45 innings for the Marlins back. ?

I was more focused on the "Wrong" part of the title than the "Righting" part. ? Speaking on the "Righting" part. I can only assume... but logic suggests that there is an issue with him because there is no team in baseball that utilizes it's bullpen more than Tampa and that includes the 2022 Minnesota Twins with the 4 inning starts. If there was any probability that he could be what he was or even 75% of what he was in 2019 and 2020, the Rays would find a 40 man spot for him. His availability speaks volumes to me at least. Back to the wrong part. Wow... The evaluation system really really missed that one because he would have been a huge help to 2019 and 2020. The fact that they missed that one as badly as they did just puts me in a position where I assume that if they miss that one, they can miss on anyone and it just further cements my opinion that the best way to avoid those mistakes is to let the players make those decisions based on actual performance and letting them keep playing well when they are. I have a problem with staying with a struggling player who is supposed to be better. The evaluation suggests that Kepler should be better than Gordon. He wasn't. The Evaluation suggests that Pagan is supposed to be better than Moran. He wasn't.

He obviously has health issues now. There is no way that the Rays let him go if he doesn't. However... for two years in 2019 and 2020 (I don't believe I am exaggerating) he was one of the most dominating relievers in the game. In 2019... In my opinion, Josh Hader was #1... Nick Anderson was #2. Lots of TD people are still upset over the Ryan Pressly trade, yet not that many even noticed the Anderson deal. No matter what anyone thinks of the Ryan Pressly trade or what they think about the players we got in return... we at least got something back for Pressly. Anderson was given away and he was BETTER than Pressly for the next two years and with a full service clock while Pressly had a couple of years before FA. Anderson was better than almost everyone in baseball for the next two years. Instead, the Twins filled the 2019 bullpen with names like Ryne Harper, Blake Parker, Morin, Hildenberger, Mejia. Harper and Parker did well I'm not knocking them but they could have had one of the best relievers in baseball at league minimum with 6 years of control but they could not identify him as he warmed up under their noses. Look up his stats. Compare them against his peers in 2019 and 2020. The modern day equivalent to that Nick Anderson trade would be trading Jhoan Duran in the last off-season due to roster space and Duran having the season he had with us for some other team. Today... Nick Anderson is obviously hurt... but for two years... he was not hurt and quite real and spectacular.

I agree 1000 Percent

I understood what Vanimal meant with the title of his post. Subsequent comments are like nobody remembers 2018. ? I believe everyone makes mistakes and I believe our front office is headed in the right direction. I remain supportive of them... however... Nick Anderson was this regimes biggest (insert favorite swear word) mistake this front office has ever made. 2018... the Twins were out of contention. Nick Anderson was striking out batters as a 27 year old in Rochester. The Twins would have to make a decision on if Nick would be added to the 40 man roster during the off-season. They left him in the minors and then traded him to the Marlins for a low level prospect so they wouldn't lose him for nothing or need to use a roster spot on him. I'll mention again... The Twins were out of contention. The Twins were so out of contention that they traded Ryan Pressly. Nick Anderson could have been called up at this point. The Front office signed 38 year old Matt Belisle instead and gave him a 40 and 25 man roster spot. Matt Belisle threw 23 innings and produced a 9.13 ERA and these were the last major league innings that Belisle would throw. Nick Anderson went on to strike out batters with the Marlins which interested the Rays as the Rays gave up their 4th ranked prospect to acquire him at the 2019 trade deadline. Lets us compare what we got for Nick Anderson to what the Marlins got for Nick Anderson. Brian Schales compared to Rays 4th ranked prospect Jesus Sanchez. Nick Anderson was in our system... Our Front Office, our Scouts, our Coaches should have known him like the back of their hand. They gave him and 6 years of control away for nothing and instead signed the last 23 innings from a career so-so 38 year old during a year when they were out of contention. I support the Front office but Nick Anderson should tell everyone that the hard decisions are indeed hard decisions. Kyle Garlick only being allowed to face left-handers... the people deciding that are the same people who couldn't see Nick Anderson. Max Kepler... multi-year deal... everyday right fielder? The same people who signed Kepler are the same people who couldn't see Nick Anderson right in front of them. We can't assume the front office knows, the scouts know, the coaches know. That isn't a slam against them... All front offices make these type of mistakes but... wow... What an incredible unnecessary miss. It should be us... the Twins... who are currently designating him for assignment. ?

IP from Starters in 2022 1. Astros - 950 Innings ERA 2.95 27. Twins - 782.2 Innings ERA 4.11 30. Rays - 753 Innings ERA 3.45 IP from Relievers 1. Rays - 682.2 Innings ERA 3.36 3. Twins - 654.1 Innings ERA 3.84 30. Astros - 495.1 Innings ERA 2.80 The Rays show it can be done. The Twins needed 159 more bullpen innings which is about 20 innings extra per bullpen slot. There is no escape from this bullpen usage when you look at how many starters were dragging the starter ERA down to 4.11. Which Twins starters had an ERA over 4.11? Bundy - 29 Starts Archer - 25 Starts Winder - 11 Starts Mahle - 4 Starts Sanchez - 3 Starts Sands - 3 Starts Gonzalez - 2 Starts 67 Starts made by Starters with an ERA over 4.11 (There's your problem)

The Twins do not need a closer. They need 8 guys they trust to pitch the 9th or any inning. Get Bullpen Serious. Yes it is possible.

You win trades by improving the players that you acquire since almost all trades are near equal value when agreed upon. Houston did a great job of taking Pressly and making him much more than he was with us. That is how you win trades. Houston does a great job of making players better so they win a lot of trades... and... and... games.

Chas McCormick... 21st round draft pick... reached the pinnacle of 21st ranked Astros prospect in 2020. Keith Law never talked about him. Just another of my poster boys for the value of opportunity and letting players playing good keep playing and letting players decide who plays by actual play. Making the catch in front of and against his home town team. His son is named Rolen after Scott Rolen. Back to Bryan Reynolds. Yeah he costs a little more... but the point is and you agree... they are both ridiculously expensive so a decent comp because the years of control match. If I'm spending that Prospect Capitol on a single player. If I'm draining the farm for a single player. I'll take Reynolds over Murphy. But all in all, you and I are not draining the farm for either player. Not many teams these days will drain the farm for any single player and perhaps that's why both are still in Pittsburgh and Oakland.

I'm sorry... I moved off of the big name shock value Ohtani. I'm on to random theoretical outfielder (let's call him John Ashbury) who has an .850 OPS and 51 median value. Or Let's call him Bryan Reynolds... Let's make him an OF with Pittsburgh. Fault - Your Serve - 15 Love

Understood and I'm not in full argument. However... in partial argument. I'd say the gain from .750 to .850 over more games is a greater addition compared to .650 to .750 in less games. Because of the more games/less games thing and because you are making an addition to the theoretical top of the order compared the theoretical middle. More importantly though. In the context of our current Twins, comparing Murphy to an outfielder's bat is absolutely relevant since we have outfielders that would start in RF tomorrow that are producing at the plate similar to Jeffers. So it isn't a .100 point jump in the OF. It's a 200 point jump in the OF for the same price of a .100 point jump at catcher so I''ll get the bigger bat and improvement plus I'll keep my young catcher who hits like most catchers do across the league and hope that he grows with the bat until he is valued at 51 in baseballtradevalues and then I trade him for a package like the A's will receive for Murphy. Your serve. 15 - Love ?

Pohlad is aloof... Rocco is an idiot. These type of statements used to express disappointment over 78-84 record is such a complete waste of time and space.

Biggest deal, in my opinion, is keeping a valuable asset healthy & productive……..,just like DHing Buxton to keep him in the line-up. I understand this thinking. However... it doesn't seem to be working. We all want healthy and productive and I'd be willing to bet that the Twins front office wants healthy and productive. None of us can stand here and say that the methods used to keep players healthy is working. I doubt the front office can say that the methods are working. It didn't work for Buxton. His WAR, I assume, was higher than any of our starters. He should be moved to closer this year & he’ll have even more value. Closer will increase his value in the eyes of the arbitrators, yet still not to the level of a starter. Full Disclosure: I don't care if he is a starter or not... I don't care if he is closer or not,.. Games are won and lost at any point, high leverage occurs in any inning. I just want more innings out of him period and less innings out of an innings eater starter like Dylan Bundy. To me it's all about innings... there are a little over 1400 innings to cover during the course of a season. How many innings zeros can be hung by the best pitchers that you have. I'm willing to bet that the number is over 60 or 70.

I understand all of this. The Pirates are also highly unlikely to trade Oneil Cruz even if you paid the price. The comparable value names I listed were for shock value to illustrate the potential cost. Lot's of care free let's go get this Murphy guy posts. The condition of our farm system in the aftermath of such a deal would make me shudder.