Twins GFP

At the beginning of the year, this team shouldn't have approached the futility we are seeing, but lets look at this: Position players in total are outperforming hopes and expectations: healthy Mauer, healthy Morneau, healthy Span (concussion wise), Willingham, Doumit, Plouffe, even Butera. Hard to argue against these decisions. Bullpen is, at the worst, doing what was expected. Not the league worst, fairly effective, even very good at times. Starting staff decimated by injuries and playing below expectations. Look at the opening day starting five: Pavano - if he only pitched at the same level he pitched last year, missed a lot of time due to injury (how long did he pitch hurt?). Baker - Out for season, injury. Liriano - 1st half was disaster, pitched better over last 8 starts with the team (couldn't even match last year's terrible numbers) Blackburn - Unmitigated disaster, should have been more effective (again, couldn't match last year's numbers) Marquis - Unmitigated disaster, should have been more effective (how much did missing Spring Training mess with him? Look at him now) If these five had pitched to the levels they were supposed to how many more wins would the Twins have? Ten is probably a conservative number. Add ten wins and subtract ten losses, what do you have? A .500 team. I guarantee you nobody around here would be complaining about .500 after last year. The Twins banked on these guys maintaining and being healthy. Virtually everything that could go wrong, did go wrong. Why is everybody ignoring the fact that this team has been about .500 since May? The sample size is large enough that you don't write it off. This is currently an average team that needs to improve it's starting pitching. But yet you say fire everybody and start over... How many IFS does it take to get to .500? I don't know how you can spin something positive out of the worst record in the AL, and the 2nd highest ERA in the Majors. You're right on your previous post, I did lump you in with the "fire everybody" crowd. For that I apologize. I don't believe making major changes to admin will have the desired effect you are looking for. The Twins have a very defined set of rules concerning payroll and budgets. I believe the admin currently in place is among the best suited for this environment. As for the IFS, I am not saying "if these 15 things happened, where would we be". I am saying that the injuries to the starting pitching are making the Twins look worse then they really are. Heck, a healthy Baker alone is probably worth 6-7 more wins for this team (not WAR, as many of our pitchers are not average). You see change and new blood needed for this team to be competitve, I see 2 decent starting pitchers and what we currently have to maintain what they've done. That's not major change.

At the beginning of the year, this team shouldn't have approached the futility we are seeing, but lets look at this: Position players in total are outperforming hopes and expectations: healthy Mauer, healthy Morneau, healthy Span (concussion wise), Willingham, Doumit, Plouffe, even Butera. Hard to argue against these decisions. Bullpen is, at the worst, doing what was expected. Not the league worst, fairly effective, even very good at times. Starting staff decimated by injuries and playing below expectations. Look at the opening day starting five: Pavano - if he only pitched at the same level he pitched last year, missed a lot of time due to injury (how long did he pitch hurt?). Baker - Out for season, injury. Liriano - 1st half was disaster, pitched better over last 8 starts with the team (couldn't even match last year's terrible numbers) Blackburn - Unmitigated disaster, should have been more effective (again, couldn't match last year's numbers) Marquis - Unmitigated disaster, should have been more effective (how much did missing Spring Training mess with him? Look at him now) If these five had pitched to the levels they were supposed to how many more wins would the Twins have? Ten is probably a conservative number. Add ten wins and subtract ten losses, what do you have? A .500 team. I guarantee you nobody around here would be complaining about .500 after last year. The Twins banked on these guys maintaining and being healthy. Virtually everything that could go wrong, did go wrong. Why is everybody ignoring the fact that this team has been about .500 since May? The sample size is large enough that you don't write it off. This is currently an average team that needs to improve it's starting pitching. But yet you say fire everybody and start over...

Mackey = Reusse How did Minnesota end up with so many hacks?

Yes, the front office made several blunders... And most of them weren't on JR's watch. Ramos/Capps, the Johan trade (admittedly, Smith was put into a difficult position there), Hardy/Hoey, Nishioka, etc... Smith did a great job with international signings, a pretty good job with the draft, and a completely abominable job with the Major League roster. The only move he made that was considered a good one by analysts was the Hardy for Gomez trade, which he later reversed with the ridiculous Hardy for Hoey trade. You don't think the Twins have a solid core of young-ish players? What do you think Scott Diamond, Joe Mauer, Denard Span, Ben Revere, and Glen Perkins are? They certainly need more pitching but their hitting core is pretty good. Willingham is the only guy who is old enough to show a significant decline at this point. You go Brock! I love the fact that the Twins are in rebuilding mode right now and everybody is calling for TR head. Lest people forget that rebuilding is one of his strengths? If the pitching injuries did not happen this year this team would have been much more competitive (shhh... nobody wants to talk about that). People are all over how good the Twins are when they do great and throw everybody under the bus when the are not. Its just too bad the same dozen negative posters keep repeating the "fire Terry, fire Gardy" mantra. It is old and stale. I sincerely hope that when this team is .500 next year and competing for the division within the next 2 that these same folks will admit their inadequacies and retire from posting.

Why not Joe Mauer? Could be the highest paid 2B in all of baseball.

Ah well, I tried...

I'll be positive and say 6IP / 3R. Go quality start!

It is a fine line to walk to allow opinions and knowing when those opinions go to far. I understand freedom of speech, but not all speech is free and protected (you can't yell FIRE in a movie theatre). Sometimes even speech that that is protected should not be said. Promoting individuals to blog and write on the site brings the good, the bad, and the ugly. The good and the bad we can deal with, but the ugly should not have a place here. I'm with Dave, should have been gone right away.

Too early to tell how this will affect the pre and post-game shows. We will have to see how the talent gets distributed. Maybe they can finally get rid of Gladden through this process...

Thrylos, I rarely agree with your opinions, and I usually find your comments intentionally inflammatory. While I did not agree with your take on Bremer's usage of the word property during the telecast, I think that basis of your comment was worth a discussion. Is the usage of the word "property" when discussing people offensive? I think that topic is open for debate. That being said, I find it incredibly hypocritical of you to take his comments as racially offensive, and then use the word "Kosher" in the manner in which you did. Were I Jewish, I could easily find this usage offensive. Regardless of your motive for using it (sarcasms, jest, or using it because it is commonly used in this manner), the fact that you have been essentially screaming racism and then do the same thing yourself takes any credibility you have and throws it out the window. I am surprised that it went this long before being commented on. Probably because it is used in that manner so often people don't really feel it is offensive. Maybe not entirely appropriate, but not offensive or racially motivated. Kind of like what Dick did, eh?

Can someone please find an example of Jason Whitlock or Doug Glanville describing a player as a team's property to put this inane discussion to bed? The using the word property to describe an athlete belonging to a sports franchise has been around forever. Being that it has been used for both white and non-white individuals, it cannot be described as a racist. If you, average joe, take offense at being called property, it's not racist, just offensive to you. If you dig hard enough, you can "find" -ism in just about any comment made describing an individual, especially if the comment is not positive. Racism, sexism, ageism... Where does the line stop?

Deduno = smoke and mirrors = ticking time bomb Don't think long term, just enjoy the ride while it is happening

I believe it is currently on Netflix as well

1) They don't forego spending entirely, they just don't believe that organizationally they should be throwing big, long term money at pitching or at outside FA. TR has said publicly multiple times that the team would go over budget if they thought the move would benefit the team, so the Twins willingness to pay for people is there. 2) Good luck finding any organization that fullfills all promises made during the run for a new stadium. It's like a presidential election: say enough to get the public on your side, then deliver reality which always falls short. 3) I would love to see the "impartial data" that supports your theory that the Twins aren't spending 52%. The question of whether they can afford a higher % is moot as the Pohlads have decided that is the percentage they are willing to put to payroll. Considering the brainpower and dollars involved coming from a multi-billion dollar conglomerate, it's hard for little old me to say that 52% is too low. Operating costs are more than just running a stadium. I would be willing to bet there have been dollar increases in scouting, advertising, and yes, personal income for the Pohlads.

I agree 100% with everything Seth says here. Big contracts in general rarely work out, big contracts for pitchers are even worse. Joe Mauer may not be a full time catcher anymore, but his bat is still devastating. A pitcher can't pitch and the money is absolutely sunk. I believe Grienke would be the ideal fit here, considering his makeup, but he will command more than the Twins should pay. It would be nice to have that #1 for the playoffs, but people screamed at the $6 million given to Capps (myself included) and he was passable before the injury. Imagine a Twins pitcher making $14 million and not performing well. This site would blow up. TR would never be forgiven.

This is pretty much dead on. Though if the Twins go out and spend any money on a 2B or SS and don't sign the "free agent pitcher of the moment", this website will blow up.

Pavano and Casilla are the only two on this list I feel comfortable saying will for sure not be with the team next year. Grey and Butera are both very cheap, they will not be moved anywhere (except maybe to the minors). Morneau will not be moved, as Parmalee has shown nothing in the majors. Blackburn and Nishioka will not be moved as they are sunk money that nobody else will take. Blackburn still could have value. Dozier ciould be in AAA, but I think the starting SS is his by default next year (hopefully they will not give him the Casilla-length rope). I still think the Twins see Span as a core player, meaning it will take a lot to move him. Pending the 40-man roster situation, I could easily see Tosoni released. Capps was relatively effective this year. I agree that $4.5 mil is high, but the Twins could pick this up anyways.

If Pavano is healthy enough for a few starts in September, the Twins will let him make those starts as a courtesy to show other teams that he is healthy enough to pitch (as Pavano will be a FA). I don't have a problem with that; two more starts for DeVries won't mean anything going forward.

Tell me why we aren't seeing another Brian Duensing situation here? Looked really good his first run through the league. Once everybody saw him, he regressed. Duensing is a good arm for the pen and some spot starts,but I wouldn't want to count on him in the rotation for an exgtended period. I have a feeling this is closer to the real Diamond.

Ummm... No. Anybody else want to try the "yes" side of this argument?

John, I think you just made a pretty good case why the Twins shouldn't move Morneau. I'm in the camp that the Twins are not far away from competing for the division. Moving Morneau at this point doesn't make a lot of sense unless they get a goldmine for him (which they won't).

Thanks guys. Yet another reason why this site will continue to grow.

As it stands today, here is your starting rotation for next year: $5 mil FA Diamond Blackburn two of these: Hendricks/Gibson/Deduno/DeVries

Theory yes, but something like that would make it out. Somebody on another Central team looking to drive a wedge between Mauer and the Twins would leak it.

Keep a very thick skin and you will be fine. Oh, and blog alot about how Gardy and the FO all need to be fired. We don't see enough of that around here. (Sorry, somebody needs to invent a sarcasm icon)