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    Where is Joe Mauer’s Benefit of Perception?

    Ted Schwerzler

    By Ted Schwerzler

    This season Joe Mauer will enter the Minnesota Twins Hall of Fame. Following his retirement, his number “7” was immediately retired and hung alongside the greats at Target Field. When it comes to year one of Cooperstown though, perception isn’t something that seems to benefit Mauer. Why that is remains a mystery.

     

    Image courtesy of David Berding-USA TODAY Sports

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    When looking at his case for the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame, it is often contended that he will get in, but the sanctity of being a first ballot entrant seems unfathomable. To wrap one’s mind around that notion must start somewhere following his post catching days.

    For Twins fans, there has always been a denigration of Joe Mauer’s resume largely due to two things. The first is a contract he signed coming off the most productive years we have ever seen from a catcher. Mauer got paid for what he had accomplished, and in a sport that stifles earnings for years before free agency, that shouldn’t be a concept difficult to grasp. Even with the $184 million extension, Mauer would’ve been substantially more handsomely paid elsewhere on the open market. His deal didn’t stop the Twins from adding, they chose not to on their own.

    Beyond that, there is the discussion of his time as a first baseman. Nevermind that Mauer transformed himself into a Gold Glove caliber talent (yes, we are still mad, Eric Hosmer), but he did so following multiple brain injuries. The Twins catcher didn’t step out from behind the plate because he wanted to, but instead because he had to. If Mauer had walked away following the concussion in 2013, he likely would’ve waltzed into the Hall of Fame similar to Kirby Puckett.

    So, when it comes to enshrinement in The Hall, why is Mauer’s case so hotly contested?

    Take for example St. Louis Cardinals great Yadier Molina. He has roughly the same career fWAR as Mauer, but was a below average hitter (96 OPS+). His personal accolades are all defensive, and he earns extra credit for team World Series rings he won. There is no denying how great his defensive acumen was, but it truly was a career of a one-dimensional leader.

    Someone like Buster Posey or Brian McCann had a career more similar to that of Mauer, and neither of them ever get mentioned in the same breath as Molina. Posey should be a certain Hall of Famer, and he’ll first become eligible in 2026 having retired in 2021. Posey won an MVP award and also captured a batting title. He wasn’t the defender that Molina was, and maybe not even that of Mauer, but his career 129 OPS+ shows just how much he contributed offensively.

    It would be much more controversial to suggest McCann is a Hall of Fame caliber talent, and yet he is right in the same realm as these other three. McCann does have a World Series and multiple Silver Slugger’s to his credit, but the only MVP award he ever won was for the All-Star game, and his offensive abilities were substantially less than both that of Mauer and Posey.

    Some of the discussion surrounding Mauer’s candidacy goes back to the premise of “when” and not “if” he’ll get in. It should not be viewed as some amazing feat to be inducted on the first ballot. There are no additional awards for getting in, rather that you get a bronze plaque for doing so.

    Nationally it seems as though Mauer is viewed more favorably. Hall of Fame guru and Fangraphs writer Jay Jaffe has long contended that Mauer be inducted, and he recently did a great back and forth with The Athletic’s Dan Hayes on that very topic. Maybe we’ll be surprised next winter and the votes will come in droves for Mauer. It would be disappointing to see it take as long as Molina’s debut to get him in, but then again, perception is often reality for most.
    A blogger for over a decade, passion for baseball and the Minnesota Twins runs deep. Whether at the ballpark or on the couch, I'm probably tweeting.
    Follow Ted Schwerzler on Twitter: tlschwerz

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    Featured Comments

    Platoon

    Platoon 8,729

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    A lot of people don’t appreciate  Mauer as a catcher because he made it look so easy, sort of like sitting in a lawn chair! Unlike some of the catchers who have followed Mauer, a Twins pitcher could actually throw that 1-2 slider down in the dirt off the plate and have confidence that it wasn’t gonna hit the backstop.  
     

    As for his abilities at first, pretend you are a Twins IF and have the choice of throwing to Mauer, or the likes of Sano, or any of the occupants of that position last year? 
     

    Was he a traditional bat first IB? Probably not, but for quite a few years he was the gold standard at the catching position! 

    Brock Beauchamp

    Brock Beauchamp 44,052

  • Site Manager

    • Posted

    1 minute ago, zoilozone said:

    I remember Joe's Uncle saying that when he got his "big boy" muscles he would be something special. I thought at the time that would translate to being a power hitter. The muscles didn't come I guess.

    Out of the draft Mauer was projected to be a 15-ish homer guy by pretty much everybody, his swing was too flat to ever be a legitimate power hitter.

    nicksaviking

    nicksaviking 38,014

  • Community Moderator

    • Posted

    57 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

    Out of the draft Mauer was projected to be a 15-ish homer guy by pretty much everybody, his swing was too flat to ever be a legitimate power hitter.

    Yeah, the swing held him back from the power. I suppose most of us thought it was there to stay in that one MVP season, but it was an outlier.

    Seems to me the contract complaints were from a small minority of fans, who just happened to be the loudest. Most fans were in favor of the deal or at minimum understood it was necessary. It would have never kept him out of the HOF, nor would it have damaged his reputation nationally, that was purely a midwestern passive-aggressive gripe every time he stepped to the plate.

    But back to the swing though, perhaps my memory is foggy, but I seem to recall that the biggest complaint, which wasn't addressed in the article, was that for how respected he was as a bat swinger, he didn't adjust his swing to keep up with the changing game. He still tried to hit through the shift instead of hitting around or as most wanted, over it. As talented as he was, I think most fans figured he could have adjusted as well or better than other hitters who thrived during that time.

    Either way, he's a HOFer.

    Brock Beauchamp

    Brock Beauchamp 44,052

  • Site Manager

    • Posted

    3 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

    Yeah, the swing held him back from the power. I suppose most of us thought it was there to stay in that one MVP season, but it was an outlier.

    Seems to me the contract complaints were from a small minority of fans, who just happened to be the loudest. Most fans were in favor of the deal or at minimum understood it was necessary. It would have never kept him out of the HOF, nor would it have damaged his reputation nationally, that was purely a midwestern passive-aggressive gripe every time he stepped to the plate.

    But back to the swing though, perhaps my memory is foggy, but I seem to recall that the biggest complaint, which wasn't addressed in the article, was that for how respected he was as a bat swinger, he didn't adjust his swing to keep up with the changing game. He still tried to hit through the shift instead of hitting around or over it. As talented as he was, I think most fans figured he could have adjusted as well or better than other hitters who thrived during that time.

    Either way, he's a HOFer.

    Yeah, he certainly didn't adjust but there were confounding factors in there: he stopped hitting the ball as hard as often after the concussion, full stop. That was the biggest cause of his decline.

    Second, the Twins franchise at the time simply was not capable of steering anyone in the right direction, as they were as far behind the game as anyone. My god, look what they did to Hicks and then Buxton.

    It feels like there was a significant portion of post-concussion Joe Mauer performance left untapped by a franchise that didn't have the coaches to identify and fix holes the modern game was exploiting.

    nicksaviking

    nicksaviking 38,014

  • Community Moderator

    • Posted

    4 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

    Yeah, he certainly didn't adjust but there were confounding factors in there: he stopped hitting the ball as hard as often after the concussion, full stop. That was the biggest cause of his decline.

    Second, the Twins franchise at the time simply was not capable of steering anyone in the right direction, as they were as far behind the game as anyone. My god, look what they did to Hicks and then Buxton.

    It feels like there was a significant portion of post-concussion Joe Mauer performance left untapped by a franchise that didn't have the coaches to identify and fix holes the modern game was exploiting.

    Yeah, and it's not like the coaches should have had the only input, there was no front office saying 'doing X will result in more production based on the team/ballpark/defense/pitcher we're playing'.

    I mean, can you imagine an NFL team today saying, 'well playing like this worked for the 1960 Cleveland Browns, should work for us too'?

    Linus

    Linus 9,151

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    5 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

    Yeah, and it's not like the coaches should have had the only input, there was no front office saying 'doing X will result in more production based on the team/ballpark/defense/pitcher we're playing'.

    I mean, can you imagine an NFL team today saying, 'well playing like this worked for the 1960 Cleveland Browns, should work for us too'?

    I think the biggest factor was Joe had been swinging like that since he was 5. Not that easy to change after all those years especially because it served him very well until analytics exposed his patterns 

    2wins87

    2wins87 2,890

  • Verified Member

    • Posted

    I have lots of thoughts on Mauer and the HOF, but citing only fWAR for catchers in Molina and Mauer's era is a little problematic due to the huge impact of framing in the first half dozen years that it was included in fWAR.

    It's not that I think the framing numbers are wrong in their impact, but I don't think guys should be in the hall conversation solely on the basis of being a good framer.  Brian McCann and Russell Martin are pretty close to Mauer in fWAR but 15-20 of those wins come from framing for both of them, and most of that from 2008-2013 when a few teams were measuring framing and understood its impact but many didn't.  McCann and Martin were both good catchers, but both benefited from being on teams that understood framing early and neither belong anywhere near a Hall conversation.

    Molina also gains maybe 10-15 wins from framing, but in his case his reputation is defense, working with pitchers, and other leadership aspects that are difficult if not impossible to measure.  I buy it for the most part so I think Yadi should go to the Hall.  Same for Posey.  I think it is often unappresiated how hard it is to maintain a high level of offense while catching for many years.

    Mauer should have the most straightforward case of the three.  He also ticks a lot of traditionalist boxes with things like the 3 batting titles.  I do think national writers have often seemed to be more clear headed about this than many in Minnesota, so I think there's a very good shot he gets in on the first ballot.



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