Gleeman & The Geek Talk Six-Man Rotation Options

I mean, wouldn't it kind of hurt Bailey Obers development of he was put in a long relief stint or if he was piggy backed where he only throws 3 or 4 innings?  Seems to me that you would want ober to be put on a routine to start 30 - 32 games this season.  So if he isn't in the starting 5 coming out of spring wouldn't you want to send him down so he could start every 5th day and get 30 - 32 starts?  I mean maybe only 15 of those starts are in the minors and the other 15 are with the Twins when someone gets hurt or becomes ineffective.  It just seems to me that you would want to train him to pitch 6 - 7 innings not 3?  JMO.  Also, if you go with a 6 man rotation then I think you need your pitchers to average 6 to 6 and 2/3rds of an inning everytime out so as to lower the dependence on using 4 or 5 relievers every game.  I mean I know someone will say if the starter goes 5 then you only need 4 relievers that day, which gives you like 3 un-used guys for tomorrow.  But let's be honest, when you stroll out 4 relief pitchers in a day one of them has a likely chance that he is off that day.  So when the Twins have a 3 - 0 lead and they bring out their second relief pitcher of the day and he walks two guys and gives up a hit and now it's 3 - 1 you get his butt out of there and bring in another dude which will make you use 5 relief pitchers in that game.  So with a 6 man rotation and one less relief pitcher they have to throw more innings in their less frequent starts.  Again JMO.

ARE YOU ALLOWED TO CARRY 14 PITCHERS?

6 hours ago, Twodogs said:

I mean, wouldn't it kind of hurt Bailey Obers development of he was put in a long relief stint or if he was piggy backed where he only throws 3 or 4 innings?  Seems to me that you would want ober to be put on a routine to start 30 - 32 games this season.  So if he isn't in the starting 5 coming out of spring wouldn't you want to send him down so he could start every 5th day and get 30 - 32 starts?  I mean maybe only 15 of those starts are in the minors and the other 15 are with the Twins when someone gets hurt or becomes ineffective.  It just seems to me that you would want to train him to pitch 6 - 7 innings not 3?  JMO.  Also, if you go with a 6 man rotation then I think you need your pitchers to average 6 to 6 and 2/3rds of an inning everytime out so as to lower the dependence on using 4 or 5 relievers every game.  I mean I know someone will say if the starter goes 5 then you only need 4 relievers that day, which gives you like 3 un-used guys for tomorrow.  But let's be honest, when you stroll out 4 relief pitchers in a day one of them has a likely chance that he is off that day.  So when the Twins have a 3 - 0 lead and they bring out their second relief pitcher of the day and he walks two guys and gives up a hit and now it's 3 - 1 you get his butt out of there and bring in another dude which will make you use 5 relief pitchers in that game.  So with a 6 man rotation and one less relief pitcher they have to throw more innings in their less frequent starts.  Again JMO.

Just a reminder that Johan Santana and Francisco Liriano were  brought up into the bullpen (others were  brought up the same way) before they forced their ways into the rotation.  And it wasn't a few quick relief appearances but most of a season of stellar relief work for each.  

I've never heard a team with good starting pitching consider a 6man rotation, let alone implement one.  If you're talking about going to a six man rotation, it means you still don't have 5!!!

Two reasons to consider it…

1, you think the starters AS A MATTER OF COURSE need more than 4 days of rest between starts. On the face of it, this seems ridiculous given the modern formula for innings/pitches per start. 

2. you think the number 6 guy is very nearly as good as your number 1/2 guys. No matter how ‘great’ the depth, this would be a damning statement on how management views the top of the rotation, IMO.

Which leads me to…if I was a 1/2 guy, I’d be in the managers office saying something to the effect of…‘no bleeping way!’

5 hours ago, Bodie said:

Just a reminder that Johan Santana and Francisco Liriano were  brought up into the bullpen (others were  brought up the same way) before they forced their ways into the rotation.  And it wasn't a few quick relief appearances but most of a season of stellar relief work for each.  

Bailey Ober is starting his age 27 season.  So if you compare him to Francisco Liriano, yeah he spent some time in the bullpen, but at age 21 he started 4 games and was in the bp for 2 games.  In his age 22 season he started 16 games and came out of the bullpen 12 times and then I don't really think he was ever in the bullpen again for the Twins, in fact by the time Liriano was 27 the Twins were looking for places to trade him because he had a 5.09 era.  Santana is also a little different because he was brought over as a rule 5 draft pick.  So as a 21 year old he had to stay on the roster somehow and that wasn't going to be as a starter.  But by the time Santana was 27 he had started like 152 games for the Twins.  So yeah if Ober was 22 and he was bouncing back and forth between the bullpen the the rotation then you could make that analogy pretty easily.  But he's in his age 27 season, if he is going to be a starter he needs to start 30 games this year.  Now if the Twins are planning on making Ober a relief pitcher for the rest of his career in Minnesota then that's fine to put him in the pen, but if they have any hopes of him being a quality starter going forward (at his age) he needs to get those starting assignments.  

Ober will be part of the 5-man rotation.  Maeda probably won't be ready to go 5 innings (or Baldelli won't let him,) so Maeda is a good choice for the "2nd man in."  Maeda also has experience in this role!  Let him work 3 innings at a time for a month or two into the season and then start to build him up.  

Oh, what am I saying?  When we start the season(every season,) thinking pitching, (or fielding, or hitting,) is a position of "strength," we all know that by the end of the season we will all be complaining about how weak our pitching was......LOL!

17 hours ago, Bodie said:

Just a reminder that Johan Santana and Francisco Liriano were  brought up into the bullpen (others were  brought up the same way) before they forced their ways into the rotation.  And it wasn't a few quick relief appearances but most of a season of stellar relief work for each.  

You beat me to it, Bodie, about Santana & Liriano. They both served as long relief & short. With Ober he should be fixed at long relief, ready to do some spot starting if need be. The Pineda/ Perez duo worked well and IMO a Maeda/ Ober duo could equally be great, benefitting both SPs.

Of course Ober is accustomed to start, so coming in later might be hard for him to adjust. So I had suggested before he needs to be brought in later in the ST games to see how he does. Maeda can be brought in later but he gets bonuses for each game he starts. So we don't want him to be disgruntle.

If you have a 6 man rotation you have 1 less for the BP, can disrupt the pitchers rhythm and does very little to relieve the stress on the BP. Maybe one SP might need an extra day of rest once in awhile but not all 6 on a regular basis. So I'm not in favor of a 6-man rotation.

Ober throwing another three innings of near perfect ball today. Of course, it is against Pittsburgh and not sure if many of these guys are regulars.

And Ober started too.  He didn't come in during the later parts of the game.  So I'm pretty sure they are going to start him somewhere.  Either in the rotation with the Twins then Maeda will be starting in the bp like he did with the Dodgers, or he will be starting in St. Paul until he gets the call up.