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    Which Mariners Starting Pitcher Could the Twins Acquire in Trade?


    Cody Christie

    The Twins and Mariners are each in the midst of a winning window, and they have the potential to match up in trades that help both rosters. What are each team’s needs, and what deals between them could make sense?

    Image courtesy of © Gregory Fisher-USA TODAY Sports

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    After making the playoffs for the first time since 2001, the Mariners entered 2023 with high expectations. Alas, Seattle lost six of their final 10 games and finished one game behind Toronto for the final Wild Card spot. It was a disappointing end for a team that many considered ascendent, with young stars like Julio Rodriguez and George Kirby. As with any offseason, the Mariners will try to find ways to supplement their roster, but they face financial uncertainty. 

    Like Minnesota, Seattle is dealing with their own fallout from the nationwide collapse of regional sports networks. Last season, the Mariners’ payroll sat around $140 million, and the front office hopes to increase that total for 2024. Seattle now owns all of ROOT Sports Northwest, their regional sports network, and the network was attached to a price increase with the largest cable distributor in the Mariners’ region.

    Seattle has already been active on the trade market, dealing away pieces with contracts that might not fit their current roster. In November, the Mariners traded Eugenio Suarez ($11.3 million) to Arizona for Carlos Vargas and Seby Zavala, who are not yet arbitration eligible. At the Winter Meetings, they packaged Jarred Kelenic ($750,000), Marco Gonzalez ($12.25 million), and Evan White ($7 million) for two other cheap, cost-controlled players, Jackson Kowar and Cole Phillips. It’s clear that Seattle needs to find ways to improve, and cutting these salaries was only the first step.

    Seattle’s most significant needs are in the lineup, and they have room to add righties and lefties. After the Kelenic trade, president of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto told reporters that the club wanted to add two or three bats. Still, they are reluctant to deal away starting pitching, one of baseball’s most valuable commodities. Potential trade chips include Logan Gilbert, George Kirby, Bryce Miller, or Bryan Woo. So, what are some potential trades between these two clubs? All trade values are from Baseball Trade Values, based on the concept of surplus value (number in parentheses) above what the player is being paid and the years of team control. 

    Potential Trade 1
    Twins Receive: Bryan Woo (28.2)
    Mariners Receive: Max Kepler (8.3), Matt Wallner (23.1)

    Woo made his big-league debut last season and posted a 4.21 ERA with a 1.21 WHIP across 16 starts. In 87 2/3 innings, he had a 93-to-31 strikeout-to-walk ratio, but he allowed 13 home runs (1.3 HR/9). Seattle had Woo jump from Double A to the big leagues after he dominated that level with a 2.05 ERA, a 0.89 WHIP, and 12.1 K/9. Wallner and Kepler have similar skill sets, but the Mariners want to upgrade their offense and both would be better than their incumbents. Kepler’s 121 OPS+ last season would have ranked third on the Mariners, behind J.P. Crawford and Rodríguez. Wallner only got 254 plate appearances in the big leagues, but his 139 OPS+ would have been eight points higher than Rodríguez's. 

    Potential Trade 2
    Mariners Receive: Jorge Polanco (9.4), Emmanuel Rodriguez (17.1)
    Twins Receive: Bryce Miller (25.9)

    Miller, like Woo, debuted in 2023. In 25 games, he had a 4.32 ERA with a 1.14 WHIP and 8.2 K/9. His 3.98 FIP was lower than his ERA, so there may be room for statistical (as well as actual) improvement. For Seattle, Polanco and Rodríguez might offer the best combination of present and future value. Polanco is under team control for two more seasons and has some defensive flexibility to fit into the Mariners lineup. Rodríguez has one of the highest ceilings of any prospect in the Twins organization and is projected to spend next season at Double A. Last season, Rodríguez posted an .863 OPS with 38 extra-base hits in 99 games. 

    Potential Trade 3
    Mariners Receive: Edouard Julien (34.5), Brooks Lee (33.5)
    Twins Receive: Logan Gilbert (65.9)

    The Twins might want to trade for a pitcher with a more established track record than the less-experienced Woo or Miller. Gilbert has pitched nearly 500 innings at the big-league level and is in his first year of arbitration eligibility as a Super 2 player. In 2023, he tossed 190 2/3 innings with a 3.73 ERA, a 1.08 WHIP, and 8.9 K/9. Julien and Lee would be a tough combo to lose at this early juncture in their careers, but frontline starting pitching comes at a high price. Julien posted a 130 OPS+ in 109 games last season, while Lee combined for an .808 OPS between Double and Triple A. 

    Which trade is the best fit for both teams? Which starting pitcher is the right one for the Twins? Leave a COMMENT and start the discussion.

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    I would think we would consider trades #1 or #2 but not 3 to me. 

    I think we have the depth to absorb the assets leaving in 1 or 2 but not in 3. I like Gilbert a lot but not at that cost. 

    More likely would be finding a 1 year rehab pitcher that we can pay little and hope while the young guys get ready.

    I myself would like that 5th spot to be an open audition for our system to see if Lewis can jump in. Not sexy but might be pretty effective and VERY cost effective. 

    7 hours ago, Otaknam said:

    Julien and Lee, young ML ready infielders with potential impact bats and high ceilings, for a once a week starter? No thanks! Trade 2 is more palatable, though ERod looks like he could be a five tool player potentially ready for a call up by the end of the year, or next year at the latest. 

    Slow down a bit... ERod just finished A ball... that is a LONG way from the show. Folks need to understand there are a few guys that can just make that huge jump but VERY few. Let him take the AA road next year and if killing it to AAA to see if he can hit there before considering him being all world. He is a VERY nice prospect but about 1 in 10 actually make it and are good... I would take Miller if it was ERod and Kep or Polanco that it took. Would likely want a lotto pick back with it but ... 

    4 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

    Robbie Ray is due back after the All Star Game, which makes his salary about $11-12M for 2024 and then he is still due another $50M plus $1M if traded for 2025-2026. Castillo is due $24+M per year for four years plus an option. Both potentially good pitchers. Why would you trade for these guys as opposed to signing Snell or Montgomery as free agents? 

    Seattle has to either sign some free agents to fill spots in the outfield and infield or acquire some players via trade. Thus far, the Mariners have been a little skittish about paying bats via free agency, although they could certainly change their past practices. I don't believe teams will be looking to help them out. 

    Castillo is "only" due 22.75 per year with a vesting option that is very unlikely to hit unless he's really good in 2027, FYI.

    I'd be thrilled with any of the three starters mentioned. I like BTV for ideas on trades, but I feel they are a bit off on their values on starting pitchers. My point is I think the three trades proposed are likely quite a bit on the light side. I don't see parting with Lee or Julien as a good way to fix the pitching depth or bringing in a #2 pitcher. Polanco alone won't get that either. Adding Raya or Festa would affect late 2024 and 2025. Trading Kepler would seem to lead to a lot of crossed fingers in the OF. Unfortunately, spending to fix the issue seems to out of the question.

    Frustrating offseason for this Twins fan...

    15 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

    You have to believe Seattle wants to hold onto their young pitching.  I noticed they have a lot of prospects in their top 20 that are not projected to reach the majors until 26-27.  Will they try to trade these prospects and hang on to their pitching?  Those assets look pretty good to a rebuilding team.

    Trading Ray or Castillo also has to be more appealing to them as well.  Would a team like Baltimore just entering what should be a wide window be interested in Ray?  Castillo has been great but the failure rate for guys this age is also quite high.  See Ray, Rodon, Mahle, etc.  Yet, Castillo is really tempting if Polanco and Kepler were the 

    When I had mentioned targeting Castillo, this is what I had in mind - Kepler and Polanco plus a lottery ticket might get it done. Salaries balance out for 2024. Sure, after that we're "stuck" with a top pitcher at $22-25M, whatever he's at. Oh darn. Guess we could always trade him to the Dodgers after we beat them in the 2024 WS!

    I knew next to nothing about most of the Seattle pitchers mentioned in this article, so I appreciate the details and suggestions. From reading the other comments, I'd also agree that it's unlikely that Seattle would want to trade any of their young arms. Maybe for a hitter like Julien, but I don't think any of our other pieces are what would motivate them. In any case, it's good to hear some different ideas and trade scenarios floated. I'm sure the front office is busy thinking of their own trade ideas ... or so we keep hoping!

    4 minutes ago, harmony55 said:

    On Trades 1 and 2, Seattle is unlikely to add $10 million to its constrained payroll while creating a hole in its starting rotation.

    Seattle has been linked to both Snell and Yamamoto, Where have you seen they have a constrained payroll?

    On 12/20/2023 at 11:31 AM, tony&rodney said:

    BTV has shifted values for some players at least three times since the season ended, some by quite a bit. Emm-Rod could slot into a prospect list at #25 or better when all of the new lists come out, which might push his value on BTV into the 40s or 50s. Those lists are quite fluid. Additionally, while there are close values on many trades, we can see vast differences in trades that include major names. Look only to the Lopez-Arraez, Soto, or Glasnow trades to witness the wild discrepancies (according to BTV) in some transactions. 

    Seattle cannot compete with the team they currently have rostered, the Twins can. Knowing this, the Twins need to proceed with the knowledge that other teams need their players much more than the Twins need to complete a deal. Both Polanco and Kepler have tremendous value in the short term. I would not agree to any of the trades offered here. Seattle would jump at #1 and #3. I'm not sure Seattle wants a prospect a couple of years away, especially one who has struck out at high rates (#2), and I'm not feeling as much love for Miller (or Woo) as some others. I'll take Varland. 

    The Twins did not show any interest in Gurriel Jr that I'm aware of and I'm not sure that Falvey is working hard to sign Rhys Hoskins. These were two players I think would benefit the Twins. While it isn't unusual for the Twins to wait until later (Jan.-April) to complete their team, the number of good players has dwindled to high-priced free agents and questionable risks. Trades are going to be difficult to complete with Seattle. Perhaps Miami can be a repeat partner for Falvey. 

     ZiPS projects the current Seattle roster with 85-90 wins;

    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-zips-projections-seattle-mariners/
     

    This year the Twins advanced to the postseason with 87 wins before losing Sonny Gray, Kenta Maeda and Emilio Pagan to free agency,

    The Mariner’ needs are no greater than the Twins’ needs.

    16 minutes ago, harmony55 said:

    The Mariner’ needs are no greater than the Twins’ needs.

    We can agree to disagree on this. 

    The Mariners have holes at 2B, 3B, LF, RF, and DH. They are pretty weak at 1B. They have great starting pitching. 

    The Twins are fine everywhere but could use an additional bat and a starting pitcher as good as Lopez.

    The season is still a long way off which makes any argument about 2024 results pointless at this time, but for right now the Twins are in better shape. A factor to consider for Seattle is that they have both Texas and Houston in their division. Meanwhile the Twins will be scrapping it out with Detroit, KC, and Cleveland.

    If Luis Castillo is really a potential trade piece I think the Twins should be very interested.  I would propose the following trade.  Based on BBTV it's a slight overpay for the Twins.  I would think you'd have to overpay somewhat to "win" a trade for Castillo.  The Mariners get a much needed 2B, a power hitting OF and a young SP to restock the farm with the loss of Castillo at the top of their rotation.  If Seattle truly wants to keep their young, controllable SP (and I can believe they do) this deal checks a LOT of their off season needs boxes.

    Castillo simply moves right in to the top of the Twins rotation pushing Lopez to #2.  A rotation of Castillo, Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Paddack and Varland would be better than 2023.  Remember, Castillo and Gray both pitched for the Reds.  Castillo was CLEARLY the Ace.  Sonny won us 8 games last last year.  Castillo would be a significant upgrade.  The Twins take a bit of a hit salary wise as Polanco & Larnach cover some, but not all of the cost of Castillo in 2024.  But Castillo's contract is a bargain compared to what the current SP salary landscape is looking like.  I for one would LOVE to enter a playoff series with Castillo and Lopez pitching games #1 & #2.   

    Twins

    00
    NAME AGE LEVEL P1 P2 AVAILABILITY YEARS AFV SALARY SURPLUS LOW MEDIAN HIGH
    Luis Castillo 31 Majors SP   Low 5 138.7 121.6 17.1 13.7 17.1 20.6

    Total Value:

    17.1

    Mariners

    00
    NAME AGE LEVEL P1 P2 AVAILABILITY YEARS AFV SALARY SURPLUS LOW MEDIAN HIGH
    Trevor Larnach 27 Majors OF   Low 4 9.2 5.6 3.6 2.9 3.6 4.3
    Jorge Polanco 30 Majors 2B   Low 2 31.9 22.5 9.4 7.6 9.4 11.3
    Connor Prielipp 22 Minors SP     0 0 0 5.7 4.6 5.7 6.8

    Total Value:

    18.7

     

     

     

    On 12/20/2023 at 2:30 PM, tony&rodney said:

    I don't disagree with you about the Twins getting outbid, but this is also an indication that the Twins are not going to pay big salaries for pitchers this year. Things may change next year. I will add that we hoped that the Twins would sign a guy this year, but it isn't going to happen.

    More and more, I'm not real interested in trading a top prospect/player such as Julien, Lewis, Wallner, Festa, or Lee, much less the key prospects below AAA.

    I'm not taking on either of Ray or Castillo. I'm still in on Gilbert or Kirby and fully understand that the Mariners are extremely unlikely to trade them. I am also bullish on Louie Varland which most people seem to disagree with right now. The Twins could use some depth behind Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Varland, and Paddack, for sure. Polanco seems to be the guy to trade as well although I'm still believing in his value. The three guys who are going to be constantly asked about though are still Lewis, Lee, and Julien. There are going to be many teams contacting the Mariners and Marlins and both of these teams will be calling the Twins too.

    If the Twins did trade Polanco for a player earning a minimum salary, I would hope there is room to add a Justin Turner or Rhys Hoskins in the budget.

    So you think Seattle is just going to give away young controllable pitchers for pennies on the dollar?

    1 hour ago, darin617 said:

    So you think Seattle is just going to give away young controllable pitchers for pennies on the dollar?

    I don't think the Twins are in on Seattle unless they trade one of Lee or Lewis. We are all just guessing.




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