Rand: What If The Red Sox Go After Morneau And Mauer

[Oxtung]

TRyan has already said they won't spend in Free Agency.

 

Where/when did he say that?

[scottz]

TRyan has already said they won't spend in Free Agency.

 

Where/when did he say that?

 

Souhan article on 8/29:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/167784175.html

 

"Ryan was blunt about a variety of subjects. He...

* Would consider re-signing pending free-agent pitchers Scott Baker and Carl Pavano.

* Doubts he will pursue any elite free-agent pitchers this winter, saying it will be a "thin" market and that he's averse to signing such pitchers to the long-term deals required to land them."

 

and later,

 

"You have to be open to a lot of things when you're looking for starting pitching," he said. "You're going to have to take some risks and you're going to have to look at all the markets, not just free agency, but trades and waivers and Rule 5s. But if you want to do it the correct way, that's going to provide stability over the long haul, you're going to have to draft and develop guys, too.

 

Even when we had rotations that were darn good, we got them from about every avenue. We have to do the same thing moving forward here."

 

*********

My problem with this is that he says you have to look at every avenue, yet he dismisses one of the avenues (free agency) with a hand wave. If we don't sign an upper tier free agent pitcher, we might as well chalk up next year as another sub .500 season, and perhaps another 90+ loss season, unless we get an upper tier pitcher through another source. Given it is unlikely to pick up an upper tier pitcher via the waiver wire or Rule 5, he's pretty much saying the only way we're getting an upper tier pitcher is via trade. In cutting deals, when you let your trading partners know you don't have any other option, that's called "tipping your hand". Can't we at least PRETEND we might throw a few bucks at a quality pitcher?

[Oxtung]

TRyan has already said they won't spend in Free Agency.

 

Where/when did he say that?

 

Souhan article on 8/29:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/167784175.html

 

"Ryan was blunt about a variety of subjects. He...

* Would consider re-signing pending free-agent pitchers Scott Baker and Carl Pavano.

* Doubts he will pursue any elite free-agent pitchers this winter, saying it will be a "thin" market and that he's averse to signing such pitchers to the long-term deals required to land them."

 

and later,

 

"You have to be open to a lot of things when you're looking for starting pitching," he said. "You're going to have to take some risks and you're going to have to look at all the markets, not just free agency, but trades and waivers and Rule 5s. But if you want to do it the correct way, that's going to provide stability over the long haul, you're going to have to draft and develop guys, too.

 

Even when we had rotations that were darn good, we got them from about every avenue. We have to do the same thing moving forward here."

 

*********

My problem with this is that he says you have to look at every avenue, yet he dismisses one of the avenues (free agency) with a hand wave. If we don't sign an upper tier free agent pitcher, we might as well chalk up next year as another sub .500 season, and perhaps another 90+ loss season, unless we get an upper tier pitcher through another source. Given it is unlikely to pick up an upper tier pitcher via the waiver wire or Rule 5, he's pretty much saying the only way we're getting an upper tier pitcher is via trade. In cutting deals, when you let your trading partners know you don't have any other option, that's called "tipping your hand". Can't we at least PRETEND we might throw a few bucks at a quality pitcher?

 

No where in that article did Ryan say he wouldn't spend in free agency. All it says is that he won't go after "Elite pitchers". Since there is only really 1 elite pitcher on the market this year he really isn't saying much. On top of that he continues on to say that FA actually SHOULD be looked at to shore up the pitching. So again, where and when did he say he won't spend because it sure isn't that article.

[jokin]

TRyan has already said they won't spend in Free Agency.

 

Where/when did he say that?

 

Souhan article on 8/29:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/167784175.html

 

"Ryan was blunt about a variety of subjects. He...

* Would consider re-signing pending free-agent pitchers Scott Baker and Carl Pavano.

* Doubts he will pursue any elite free-agent pitchers this winter, saying it will be a "thin" market and that he's averse to signing such pitchers to the long-term deals required to land them."

 

and later,

 

"You have to be open to a lot of things when you're looking for starting pitching," he said. "You're going to have to take some risks and you're going to have to look at all the markets, not just free agency, but trades and waivers and Rule 5s. But if you want to do it the correct way, that's going to provide stability over the long haul, you're going to have to draft and develop guys, too.

 

Even when we had rotations that were darn good, we got them from about every avenue. We have to do the same thing moving forward here."

 

*********

My problem with this is that he says you have to look at every avenue, yet he dismisses one of the avenues (free agency) with a hand wave. If we don't sign an upper tier free agent pitcher, we might as well chalk up next year as another sub .500 season, and perhaps another 90+ loss season, unless we get an upper tier pitcher through another source. Given it is unlikely to pick up an upper tier pitcher via the waiver wire or Rule 5, he's pretty much saying the only way we're getting an upper tier pitcher is via trade. In cutting deals, when you let your trading partners know you don't have any other option, that's called "tipping your hand". Can't we at least PRETEND we might throw a few bucks at a quality pitcher?

 

I think it was Seth who said it best when he characterized Ryan as remarkably even more conservative with the owner's money than the owner himself.

[jokin]

TRyan has already said they won't spend in Free Agency.

 

Where/when did he say that?

 

Souhan article on 8/29:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/167784175.html

 

"Ryan was blunt about a variety of subjects. He...

* Would consider re-signing pending free-agent pitchers Scott Baker and Carl Pavano.

* Doubts he will pursue any elite free-agent pitchers this winter, saying it will be a "thin" market and that he's averse to signing such pitchers to the long-term deals required to land them."

 

and later,

 

"You have to be open to a lot of things when you're looking for starting pitching," he said. "You're going to have to take some risks and you're going to have to look at all the markets, not just free agency, but trades and waivers and Rule 5s. But if you want to do it the correct way, that's going to provide stability over the long haul, you're going to have to draft and develop guys, too.

 

Even when we had rotations that were darn good, we got them from about every avenue. We have to do the same thing moving forward here."

 

*********

My problem with this is that he says you have to look at every avenue, yet he dismisses one of the avenues (free agency) with a hand wave. If we don't sign an upper tier free agent pitcher, we might as well chalk up next year as another sub .500 season, and perhaps another 90+ loss season, unless we get an upper tier pitcher through another source. Given it is unlikely to pick up an upper tier pitcher via the waiver wire or Rule 5, he's pretty much saying the only way we're getting an upper tier pitcher is via trade. In cutting deals, when you let your trading partners know you don't have any other option, that's called "tipping your hand". Can't we at least PRETEND we might throw a few bucks at a quality pitcher?

 

No where in that article did Ryan say he wouldn't spend in free agency. All it says is that he won't go after "Elite pitchers". Since there is only really 1 elite pitcher on the market this year he really isn't saying much. On top of that he continues on to say that FA actually SHOULD be looked at to shore up the pitching. So again, where and when did he say he won't spend because it sure isn't that article.

 

The payroll isn't expanding, it's contracting...therefore.... more Marquis signings and has-been retread re-signings, you won the argument, but what did you really win here?

[Shane Wahl]

No one in their right mind believes that trading Mauer is going to happen. Can't we all agree on that?

[jokin]

No one in their right mind believes that trading Mauer is going to happen. Can't we all agree on that?

 

Of course not. But, FWIW, Reusse put the chances at 2%, right after he made light of the prospect of such an event on Twitter with some moron-rube-baiting.

[scottz]

 

No where in that article did Ryan say he wouldn't spend in free agency. All it says is that he won't go after "Elite pitchers". Since there is only really 1 elite pitcher on the market this year he really isn't saying much. On top of that he continues on to say that FA actually SHOULD be looked at to shore up the pitching. So again, where and when did he say he won't spend because it sure isn't that article.

 

It also says that Ryan declared the free agent market as "thin." And there's another thread on this forum dissecting what Ryan is quoted as saying versus what Souhan might be stirring up. I'm saying I wish the quote would be "we're going to be players in every market" rather than "you're going to have to look at all the markets, not just free agency, but trades and waivers and Rule 5s." Of course you have to look at waivers and Rule 5s. But this team just leans way too heavy to trying to find a diamond in the rough as way to fill obvious holes in the rotation for my tastes. Pretend you're going to be in the market to buy an arm.

 

If we had 4 guys penciled in the rotation to rely on for next year, I'd have no problem with the phrasing in the article. But we don't. We have one guy (Diamond) who has nearly a full season of solid history to give us full, unwavering confidence in him. Then, we have Hendriks who has a fantastic AAA resume and one complete game with the big leaguers. Then, we have Gibson and his TJ recovery and his almost certain limited innings. Then we have Deduno and his crazy fastball. Then we have DeVries, or whomever else you want to say is next. I'd love it if all of the guys became the pitchers we want them to be. But it is foolish to go into season after season hoping that this year will be the year everything comes together. I'd like more past performance - i.e., an established repeatedly good pitcher - on the squad. In fact, I'd like two so we can hope with the bottom 3 guys in the rotation, instead of the top 3. And the Twins have some money available, unless they decide that Carl Pavano and his 86 mph fastball is an established repeatedly good pitcher. If that's their evaluation, I'd rather have a turd sandwich with mustard.

[Oxtung]

 

No where in that article did Ryan say he wouldn't spend in free agency. All it says is that he won't go after "Elite pitchers". Since there is only really 1 elite pitcher on the market this year he really isn't saying much. On top of that he continues on to say that FA actually SHOULD be looked at to shore up the pitching. So again, where and when did he say he won't spend because it sure isn't that article.

 

It also says that Ryan declared the free agent market as "thin." And there's another thread on this forum dissecting what Ryan is quoted as saying versus what Souhan might be stirring up. I'm saying I wish the quote would be "we're going to be players in every market" rather than "you're going to have to look at all the markets, not just free agency, but trades and waivers and Rule 5s." Of course you have to look at waivers and Rule 5s. But this team just leans way too heavy to trying to find a diamond in the rough as way to fill obvious holes in the rotation for my tastes. Pretend you're going to be in the market to buy an arm.

 

If we had 4 guys penciled in the rotation to rely on for next year, I'd have no problem with the phrasing in the article. But we don't. We have one guy (Diamond) who has nearly a full season of solid history to give us full, unwavering confidence in him. Then, we have Hendriks who has a fantastic AAA resume and one complete game with the big leaguers. Then, we have Gibson and his TJ recovery and his almost certain limited innings. Then we have Deduno and his crazy fastball. Then we have DeVries, or whomever else you want to say is next. I'd love it if all of the guys became the pitchers we want them to be. But it is foolish to go into season after season hoping that this year will be the year everything comes together. I'd like more past performance - i.e., an established repeatedly good pitcher - on the squad. In fact, I'd like two so we can hope with the bottom 3 guys in the rotation, instead of the top 3. And the Twins have some money available, unless they decide that Carl Pavano and his 86 mph fastball is an established repeatedly good pitcher. If that's their evaluation, I'd rather have a turd sandwich with mustard.

 

I agree with most of what you're saying. I just am trying to keep you honest in what Ryan did and did not say. You're bashing him, and you do it in this post again, for something he didn't say. He didn't call the entire FA market "thin". He only said that the "elite FA pitcher" market was thin. But anybody can see that. The only elite pitcher out there now is Greinke. Maybe the Twins sign some good FA's and maybe they don't but don't hang Ryan out to dry for something he didn't in fact say.