ewen21

The comments are not terribly insightful because the things I mentioned were so blatantly obvious to any fan who watched him day-in-day-out for the last seven or eight seasons. He hit into an oppositte field shift and refused to adapt. Blyleven made it clear that Joe needed to make adjustments. For him to say that is significant. Most other players just play nice. Bert was honest. The .277 in close and late situations, the pedestrian performance in the post season, the lack of a walk off hit for almost a dozen seasonss, his looking at hittable pitches with runners on base when he was supposedly the best hitter in the lineup....etc...that is factual. Not kicking him around. I am just not of the belief that I was watching greatness these last eight seasons. I don't pick that out of the sky, nor do I say it because I have a vendetta against the guy. People get mad when I point out his flaws and weaknesses. I've learned it's offensive to some when I list facts to support an opinion that diminishes Joe's God-like status with our fanbase.

I never comment about "fire in his belly", but since you bring it up, for me it has nothing to do with being a motormouth. It has to do with what a guy does on the field. You mention his wonderful average with RISP, but he was a .277 hitter for his lifetime in close and late situations. He went nearly 12 seasons without getting a walkoff hit. So many of his at bats with RISP in big spots in the game featured him spitting on perfectly hittable strikes. This speaks to "fire in the belly" and his reluctance to step up in big spots. "Fire in the belly" also has to do with what a guy is willing to do during the offseason. I never saw Joe as being one of those guys who trained hard during the offseason to build strength and stamina for the regular season. That clearly was not his thing, while a fair number of elite players are noted for this kind of thing. Torii Hunter did more for his team by being physically in phenomenal shape than the did with his mouth. His offseason workout routine was totally on point and something for young players to pay attention to. Joe did not provide that example and I often wondered why. He could have worked to make himself a bit stronger and get those quick twitch muscle fibers in gear. He did not see that as being so important and he became a slap hitter who looked for walks. We can go back and forth on this, but I have my opinion on this and I don't think he evolved very much. Joe had all the talent in the world and yet he didn't make adjustments. That opposite field shift was utterly insane. That should have fired him up to find hittable pitches in his happy zone and turn on them. Nope, not his thing...... Joe was a fabulous player for the first half of his career and then 2011 happened. From there forward I never thought I was watching greatness. I did feel that way in the years before that. I am just calling it like I see it and nothing I mentioned above is far-fetched or out of line. Call me a heretic. Sorry

Revered figures with storied histories? Mauer may have been revered by a lot of folks, but there was very little about his game in a long time that was special. His primary skill for the last five seasons was to draw walks. He was an effective table setter. We don't need anyone averaging a .740 OPS over the last five seasons being treated like royalty. That's over. Maybe bring in a two veterans with some postseason success who can put up better numbers than Mauer and cost less. Dozier? Come on, man. He was the classic garbage time player. Shine the spotlight on him and he falls to pieces. I think it is good for this team to hit the reset button. Time for a new flavor. While we are at it, let's stop being so concerned about where guys were drafted. Buxton does not deserve a limitless amount of time in the majors to find himself--and, no....his defense doesn't make up for his putrid offense. Hold him to a standard. As soon as the coaching staff can apply accountability evenly the culture will turn around. That has not happened in a long, long time

The whole "fan experience" thing has become insane. No more throwing balls into the crowd, fans don't deserve it

I am off the Donaldson train.

If one is making a case for him getting an extension you literally HAVE TO cherry pick the 37 or 38 games in July and August of 2017. Subract that out from his career and his OPS is down near .600. That little run amounts to about one ninth of what he has done as a major leaguer. We should push that up front and ignore all the other stuff? There is no reason to extend him. He has been injury prone, he has had major struggles even making contact with the baseball a lot of the time and we have him under team control for a long time anyway. I don't get the rationale behind an extension. Even if he does become an all star calibre player he is going to bolt for the most money. He won't look back and say....."oh gee. The Twins had faith in me so I have to stay"

I am also not a favorite of.... "Just play him everyday and let him take his lumps" At some point a player must understand his performance affects his position in the organization. We can't run charity for guys like Buxton. If he is nitting .180 in late May then he has to lose his job. There needs to be STANDARDS for offensive production. Putting him out there as an "untouchable" absolutely "sends the wrong message"

I am not advocating to trade Buxton, nor am I giving up on him entirely. This is subject to change as time moves forward, but please don't project off what I said. I simply agree with the essence of what Epstein said. Epstein said this: “We’ve never operated with untouchables,” he said. “It sends the wrong message." I am not an Epstein disciple or fan. I respect him, though.....and I agree with this simple axiom. I don't anyone to tell me what he really means. Not could be more telltale that what is above in bold.

That statement illustrates precisely why Buxton never should have been viewed as untouchable. Jeter was untouchable in the middle of the Yankees championship run. Buxton NEVER should have been viewed as such

Defense for a posiion player is important, but it isn't close to how important offense is. Not by a longshot. Every at bat is a chance to make an impact whereas a player might go a week or more before they can make a play only few others can make in the field. A player can go a long time just having plays that aren't difficult for nomal major leaguers. The idea that his glove makes up for his horrible offense is absurd. It takes some of the sting away. That is all it does. The other thing is, outfield defense does not last forever. He wasted a year last year because he could not hit, got a migraine and hurt his toe. This took him out by May. We all saw what we saw and yet people preach the posiitive and the upside. Exactly how much longer can we do this? Further, how is it that it is smart to make an investment in him now? He has no leverage and he should be concerned about staying with the big club. Not with any kind of contract talk. I just don't get it. Maybe some folks can see the future and I can't. I can only go on what I have seen and I am not encouraged at all. Can this change? Of course it can. Would I bet millions and leave other young players in the organization wondering why he got his and they did not?? NO WAY And that is another thing. We need to build a meritocricy. Not create an environment where one guy is treated diferently from the rest unnecessarily.

HIs floor is he's out of baseball within five years. He barely played last year and when did he was overmatched. His speed isn't making up for it. His speed gets treated like a security blanket and I don' get that. His speed and recklessness in the field may well be the thing that ultimately does him in for good. He's had collisions and has already knocked himself out in the field. At the rate he is going what is he going to be in three or four years? This is why I don't understand the angle that states... "He can hit .200 and still have a lot of value" Really? No, I don't think so. Especially since he cannot seem to stay on the field., An extension now accomplishes notihng. Have we not been watching? This is a player who bases his entire game off playing with reckless abandon in the field. There was an article last sping where he talked in detail about his migraines, concussions and running into walls--AND he was unrepentant. That was the red flag for me last March. This last season confirmed all my concerns. Being positive is nice, but when it strays to far from reality I find it troublesome--especially when talking about INVESTMENT

An extension at this point makes zero sense. Why reward him at this juncture? To show "loyalty" to him? Inferiority complex much?? It also sends the wrong message to other players. If we are going to climb out of the abysss then players need to earn their keep based on merit. As mentioned, besides the lack of consistency, the injury factor looms large. Add to it his propensity to run into things + the migraine issue. All the potential and positive thinking in the world amounts to nothing, as #3 aptly put it

I said weight isn't an issue if he is jacked and has worked out all winter. I will add that if he is 260 and well conditioned WEIGHT IS NOT AN ISSUE. HIs is issue was LACK OF CONDITIONING more than it was his weight.

The weight is not an issue if he is jacked and has worked out all winter.

His actions, statements and antics were embarassing. HE made it hard for me to watch the WS

I agree with this. We have promoted guys who are undeserving and other guys like Kepler are just left to "take their lumps" in hope that a light goes on and they figure it out. I am tired of this strategy. One huge problem we have had is literally no players in AAA. It is almost as though we have disregarded AAA completely. That is the next step and if there is little to no depth or competition there it fosters a weak culture. Buxton, Sano, Kepler....these guys need to feel the heat. They are not in need of more nuturing. THey have gotten that in spades. This generation of Twins needs to understand that where you were drafted and how much hype you have been given does not give you an endless leash. YOu need to perform and if you don't for long enough we are going to sit you down or demote you and find someone else who can play.

Sano, Buxton and Castro had bad offensive years and it is not something I will chalk up to injury. Buxton and Sano are by no means guys you can rely upon to give consistent offensive producion. A lot of us made the mistake of assuming growith would naturally arrive. Both players regressed. Castro just straight up cannot hit. He never could hit. MIsssing their at bats did not have as much of an affect on the offense as people would like to believe. Sano and Buxton have a lot to prove and I will not make an assumption/forecast for either. With the trajectory of their careers thus far I would not be stunned to see either guy (or both) flame out or one reason or another. I sure as heck hope not, but this is the current reality witb both

I have trouble initiating Kepler. Sano and Buxton into "core status" after what went down last season. All three were disappointments., but Sano and Buxton went well beyond that. A week or so ago there was a thread about perhaps needing to pivot away from Sano and Buxton and here they are building blocks for the future. I have not completely given up on Sano and Buxton, but I am not wagering on them, Buxton is not a good hitter and when he struggles he presses. Once that happens he becomes a mess. Will he ever get past that? I don't know. I don't have a crystal ball. I will say that because Torii Hunter or whomever struggled some when they were young and got it together it doesn't mean the same will happen with Buxton. Plus, Hunter never struggled as mghtily as Buxton has. Not by a longshot. Furthermore, I can't chalk up Buxton's seasons to injuries. He was off to a slow start before he went on the DL. The other thing about his injuries is that they will compound and get worse over time if he doesn't wise up and alter his approach. As far as Sano is concerned, the guy is a mess right now. I don't care if they reported what happened in the DR was an accident. I have trouble with the fact that stupid things seem to happen when he is around. What the heck is he doing getting behind the wheel after leaving a club at 3AM? THat is stupid. I am sorry. FOr a guy with all the resources in the world at his fingertips he never ever should be in that situation. Between Sano and Buxton we have two guys who can implode at any moment. "Core players" give a team stability. These two do not in any way, shape or form.

THat is part of the issue with Buxton. The migraines will be there and so will an array of other injuries since he plays with a reckless abandon. Part of his development involves him figuring out a way to stay healthy. Quite honestly, he was not hitting the first few weeks. YOu can cite a "small sample size" but I was very concerned about how he'd start off--especially after I read this article: https://www.twincities.com/2018/03/28/twins-star-byron-buxton-takes-pride-in-his-ability-to-play-through-pain/ I don't give him a pass this last season. He needs to prove himself to me. Two months at the end of 2017 is really all he has. Apart from that he has been a terrible hitter--so bad it was too hard to justify putting him in the lineup.

Too soon for me.

Puckett did get some time in AAA and Knoblauch spent a full year in AA, but OK. Still not on the same level as penciling in KIriloff and Lewis as starters in 2019

Sorry for the tone of that last response, but I just can't take hearing about "call up _______ and let him take his lumps" We have done this already. Recently, too. When does it work? Almost NEVER

Good lord am I sick and tired of this "history lesson" Everyone knows the story, but go ahead and name two more guys who had the same thing happen. Talk to us about two guys in our system since Hrbek that were promoted like that and became part of a "nucleus" that won? It is the stupidest thing in the world to suggest the players you listed be called up to "take their lumps" If the Twins did what you suggest, not only would the be the laughing stock of baseball, but they could also be ruining the development of some of these players. Why? Because it worked once in 1981! Can we divorce ourselves from this lunacy once and for all?

I almost just threw up in my mouth!

Amen to that. This takes me back to the Gardy debate when if it were suggested Gardy be fired some homer would pipe up saying, "Who you gonna get that's better?" I can't pretend to know who is the right fit for this job, but after watching Molitor I know for sure it ain't him