ewen21

I would say this idea is a place where we should start. I think that would give us two years under team control with him and I think it's worth taking a chance on. It would be nice to get Cole, but it's just not likely. We can pull the trigger on a trade and get a guy younger than Cole in Syndergaard with still perhaps his best years ahead of him.

A couple of years ago there was a lot of vociferious talk about giving a blank check to Yu Darvish. The Astros got Verlander in a trade and the Tigers are paying 8 million dollars of his yearly salary next year. They got Grienke in a trade as well. Same with Gerrit Cole. This is something that WE have to do better. We have players we can use to trade for decent young pitching and we ought to explore all avenues. We aren't going to get there signing the two most expensive/"best" pitchers out there in this year's market. The problem with this organization is they fall in love with their prospects and believe they are better than they really are. Case in point: Byron Buxton and Miguel Sano. For the longest time we acted as though these two were untouchable. Literally NO ONE should be considered untouchable at this point. The Astros, the Rays, Milwaukee have all had the sack to trade prospects in the past. For whatever reason there is this silly notion that we "don't wanna mortgage the future" Make a damn trade or two and don't be afraid to trade Royce Lewis or whomever to get strong starting pitching. Until we can nut up and do that then we probably aren't getting over the hump

To be fair, Rocco really threw him to the lions. I actually felt bad for the kid, but THERE was where he needed to make his bones and he failed both times. I think he is much improved and will be useful going forward. In the long run we as fans need to decide whether or not the postseason actually matters.

I don't have a ton of confidence in Berrios. We will see if he takes the next step or gets figured out and doesn't adjust. It's all up in the air as far as I'm concerned

Wow. I am speechless. Only goes to show two people can be watching the same thing day in and day out and come to completely different conclusions.

I agree with that, but throwing tons of money at free agent starting pitching isn't the answer

Yes and my point is when demand is high for top tier players we can't compete. Nelson Cruz is 40 and we got him on a 1 year deal. That's nice, but it's not the same as trying to land top tier pitching. There isn't a demand for Cruz as there is for Cole.

This is the issue and it has been one for years. We have desperately been looking for starting pitching for years because we can't seem to raise it ourselves. At the same time high payroll teams are looking for starting pitching all the time because they can do it no matter how stocked some of them might be. The free agents want to go to winning teams and those teams have bidding wars and then we are left in the dust unless we throw stupid money around. A lot of people were really into throwing money at Yu Darvish and I think a lot of that was with "making a splash" and "getting a name guy". I think it is kind of a similar thing with Bumgarner. Sorry, no thank you. I get trying to acquire Wheeler, but if anyone thinks we have a shot at Cole it would need to be a deal that is literally more than any other team would offer. Had we nutted up and played a much better series in NY or even won we would be a more attractive destination to free agents. If a player has a choice they likely aren't interested in playing for a team that has no intention of doing anything beyond getting to the playoffs. It is a real mess right now and this season that just ended for us needed to be a year where things were a bit different. After winning 101 games we can't even be competitive in the playoffs. Players know this about this organization and they aren't wasting time trying to "find the positives" It is very hard to sell this team to free agents if we are going to be permanent postseason losers who insist that they are successful in spite not winning a damn post season game in 16 tries. We end up with guys like Lance Lynn, etc....for a reason. I don't think many fans are willing to accept this harsh reality. Losing in the playoffs the way we did hurt our chances in this year's free agent market to get top flight guys. Winning some postseason games would have helped

Getting swept as we did in the playoffs again doesn't make us any more attractive to top end starting pitchers entering the market. We will likely need to outbid the entire market whereas teams like Houston or NY (for example) won't need to try as hard. This is why I am not a big believer in signing pitchers for stupid money. I'd much rather swing a trade and watch a young guy grow with us rather than sign a guy for a term that is too long

And there's the rub. He is 29 and missed THREE SEASONS in a row. He had two decent years in a row, but he is in no way "an ace" That said, he did have 23 games where he pitched six innings or more so the guy fits my profile for the kind of pitcher I want "isn't near the pitcher Berrios is" is a little much. Berrios is probably better, but it's closer than what you are saying

Agree. What are we talking about here? This team was not ready for the fight. It was a team effort all the way around. To focus on a pitching move here and a play that maybe could have been made totally avoids the harsh reality that this team was not mentally equipped to battle. I fully expected the Yankees to hit, but I also expected us to hit a little. We did not. At all. There is your reason why we lost three in a row. Heck, in the last game we had a big chance early with the bases loaded and nobody out and we couldn't push a run across the plate. How come this is talked about and we are splitting hairs with this stuff about Miggy's lack of athleticism?

Are we really suggesting that we would have won if not for Rocco's moves? I would say if we are playing the blame game we need to really branch out here. I cannot believe Rocco's moves are still something people want to moan about. We were not good enough. Period. Can we just cop to that and move forward? I could line up five of the most active complainers about these moves and plug them in for Rocco and it wouldn't have made a blessed difference. This team lost once the Yankees took the lead in game one. This team did not deal with adversity. At all. If Rocco deserves criticism it should be more about the culture that seems to dictate whatever happened in the playoff was OK. We already had a great year. This is a common theme with this team. Last time we were in a series and got swept Michael Cuddyer proclaimed it a "successful season" Ummmm. Sorry, not quite. Not when you never had a chance and this team never had a chance.

Come on damnit. Sorry for being so crochety in the other threads. I am letting go right now. About to crack my first Guinness

This is a freakin team effort. Seems to me when we cite isolated defensive plays and managerial moves it is way to simply things to make it appear that we are only a click on the dial away. Well....we were so damn far away from having a chance in NY it wasn't even funny. That is soup to nuts, top to bottom, every single aspect.

Here we are talking about the pitching, meanwhile our vaunted offense has scored 6 runs in the first two games. We were playing in a bandbox against two pitchers who are far from unhittable. Score some damn runs! In the last 11 post season games we have scored a total of 26 runs. How about this vaunted offense show some balls tonight? This team looks like the other teams to me. They are playing scared and are taking stupid unfocused at bats. It was no secret what this team was supposed to do. They have not done it yet.

Really dude? Really??

How are we blaming managerial decisions for what we are facing now? Just who the heck should we have gone with and do you really believe it would have made a difference? The best you can do is say I DON'T KNOW. What we know right now is this Yankee lineup is the best in the game, bar none. We don't stack up against it. Period. Whine all you want about a decision here and a decision there. That's easy to do if you want to do it. Maybe they were not the right decisions, maybe if we did what you wanted we might have been a little better off (maybe worse off). We are down 2-0 because the Yankees hitters are way WAY better than anything we have to put on the hill AND our bats have not shown up. The Twins have also showed yet again that the "none of these guys were here when we lost all these games in the post season" rationale means nothing. This is not a bizarre random sports anomaly. At this point, we need to admit there is something broken in the mindset this organization (and possibly the fan base) has. In the midst of failure people are denying it. We are trying to make it about managerial moves over anything the players have done and that is straight up denial if you ask me.

THis wasn't about defense or "questionable managerial decisions" Personally, I am looking to field the best possible lineup in that stadium against this team. If Arraez was good to go (even if not 100%) I put him in there as well. Much too much complaining about Rocco's "questionable decisions" as far as I am concerned. This team managed to win 101 games in spite of Baldelli's stupidity? No. This is about the Twins bats as much as it is anything else. We have now lost 14 post season games in a row and over those 14 games we have scored 43 runs. Sorry, not good enough. And you are dead on with regards to Berrios. He does braindead sometimes and last night was a perfect example of it. He got yanked after 4 innings of ineffective work and got bro-hugged in the dugout for it. That to me is a big issue. Seems to me this team feels like it accomplished enough to put its tail between its legs and get swept again while the fans blame it on small payroll, east coast bias and Bob Costas not loving us enough. Enough already. This isn't about "having fun" right now. It is about being a pro and being able to look at yourself in the mirror when this is all said and done. That was a weak effort all around last night and in no way can we chalk it up to "poor defense" or "questionable managerial decisions" Please. It runs way WAY deeper than that

We are not very far apart in our thinking. Rocco is nothing like Gardy and maybe that is what we need. I also think this team is every bit as good as the Yankees. I think it goes five games

Can't deny the fact that we are 36-126 against this team since 2002. They are NOT that much better. We only acted like they were and that BS needs to stop now

Oh please. We have lost the last 10 post season games against this team and we are 2-13 against them in post season games this century. We have a ridiculously terrible record against them since Gardy took over the team in 2002. To complain about umpires is ludicrious. If you want to complain about things then complain about how gutless this team has played against the Yankees over the last almost 20 seasons. Complain about how this team cannot hit in the postseason against the Yankees. Complain about how we have scored 4 runs or less in 13 of the 15 post season games we have played against them. As for the Phil Cuzzi abomination, we aren't in that situation if Joe Nathan doesn't spit the bit in the 9th. THen he had the nerve to complain about the umpiring after that. He needed to just own it and say "that doesn't happen if I do my job". Totally unacceptable from Nathan right there and it gives you an idea of the mindset Gardy helped to foster. THat is the kind of attitude I hope no longer exists in the Twins clubhouse. Maybe we can put this ridiculousness to sleep. I am pretty damn tired of watching it

Obviously you aren't into the criticism of Rosario and judging from the sarcasm here you must think it is irrational and unwarranted. OK....why not just up front rather than this baloney? Just sayin

Sorry. What people do working in cubicles (not me) do for $60,000 a year is different from what ballplayers do. One doesn't translate into the other. Not just because of the money either. They don't play for a fan base and they aren't making millions to work 7 months a year. The second part about deciding when and when not to expend energy is also bogus. Run out of the box. What is so hard about that? It doesn't need to be like 40 yard dash sprints but do it right. Among other habits Eddie has this is another one that isn't a good one. He is a frequent flyer in this regard. And since you ask..... As far as how I treat my job, I am a tenured teacher in the NY state system. The doors open in my school at 9:00 but I am often there at 7:00, 7:30 is late for me. I'm 23 years in so I really don't need to do it because I have something called tenure. So when you throw that question out there to me it completely backfires. Unlike you, I do not assume the people here openly slack at work in front of everyone.

So what is wrong with calling everyone out?

I don't understand. Are you saying it isn't reasonable to call him out in that situation for it? I like Eddie and I don't like Steve Stone, but I have no trouble with Stone taking that stance. None at all.