twinssporto

Depressing.

I think the opt out clause was a real stumbling block for the Twins. Falvey has mentioned before his dislike for them in the past. It could come back to haunt the Cubs if Darvish plays above his expected value.

Heads will roll is right! Guaranteed there were a few additional "talking points" added by the sales guy. Love the feedback from the sales department though. You can always count on the sales guy to put the proper spin on things. Very telling. I mentioned this in another thread but its amazing how quiet the Twins FO has been on the Darvish fall-out. Haven't really heard a peep about it from anyone...Wonder what they have up their sleeves?

I'm starting to sharpen mine...

This is something to consider: The Twins have been very quiet on the topic of not signing Darvish. I have looked at numerous web sites, Startrib, Pioneer Press, ESPN, etc...very few comments from the Twins FO. Has anyone seen a quote or post from the Twins FO? My guess is there is a lot going on right now. I'm not thrilled with their plan B or C but something is cooking in a big way. If the FO doesn't do anything the pitch forks will be coming out of the hay stacks (to quote River Brian in another post)... You heard it here first. Trust me. I'm a Twins fan!

I love hanging out with other "smart people"!

It's an eight week old yellow lab. Just hijacked a yellow lab photo off the internet. He wants to keep a low profile.

Or offer/have some other intangible benefits that the player likes, i.e, other players on the team, coaching staff, city and ability to win a WS. Total guess at this point and pure speculation but I think Darvish decided on Chicago over the Twins for some of those other intangible reasons.

I totally understand. We just got a brand new puppy on Friday and I'm even mad at the poor little thing. Who gets angry at a puppy???

The problem is that Plan B isn't really attractive at all. Sure, we could get one or both of the other free agent pitchers but for the cost? Not really overwhelming guys either. Ugh! I know we could trade away some of our other quality minor leaguers for the Tampa Bay guy (and lose a draft pick) but again I say ugh. I know there are numerous other scenarios that could play out but again I say Ugh. I'm working through the 5 stages of grief. At stage 2 right now...Sorry. 1. Denial 2. Anger 3. Bargaining 4. Depression 5. Acceptance

I'm not a CPA but Mauer calling Florida home avoids paying MN income tax on his other earnings, I.e investment accounts, real estate income from other areas, outside income from advertising, etc., etc.

That's typically how it works. However...your home domicile plays a role too. For instance, I believe Mauer is a Florida resident. It makes a difference.

I once asked a girl in high school to a "formal" dance. I got turned down....If Twins don't land Mr. Darvish I'll take the blame "again". Get it? Thread Title: Twins give Darvish a formal offer. I thought this was funny...

Giddy Up!!

Not sure if you were referring to me regarding anger but I intentionally wrote that I am neither for player or owner in my comments...I've mentioned this before but if you follow your logic all the way through why have owners at all? The players can pool their own money and buy the teams outright thus eliminating the owners all together. It would be interesting to see how that model would play out.

This has been a fascinating off-season to watch. I hope Harvard Business School or some other institution does a case study on this whole topic. From a purely business perspective you have a number of things going on: BTW, I am not taking a position for owners or players... 1. I think the GM's have gotten a lot smarter when analyzing these FA contracts. I don't know the systems, metrics or the logarithms they are using but they may have wised up when it comes to the length of the contracts they extend to 30+ year olds. It doesn't look like a dollar-per-year issue but a length of time issue. 2. The payroll tax has really come into play this year. When two big market teams like the Yankees and Dodgers are trying to get under that limit they will not be aggressive and won't commit the dollars to these FA's (thus driving down the value of the free-agents services). Clark poorly negotiated this item and will get hammered for it by the Players Union. Just wait and see... 3. Nothing and I mean nothing ever grows all the way to the sky. Stocks, businesses, incomes, home values, etc. Free agency is a great mechanism for players to really see what the market can bear when it comes to salaries and compensation. However, for some of these guys now and into the future the always rising pay may have just leveled off or even dropped. That's economics 101. 4. Point number #3 above is valid BARRING ANY OWNER COLLUSION. I bolded that statement because its one of the biggest reasons people give when asked why the big names haven't been signed yet. I am somewhat skeptical about collusion taking place with the owners for a number of reasons: First it is very illegal (I know people break laws everyday) but this takes some considerable logistics and planning on their part. Secondly, the owners got hammered by this back in 1987. It would boggle my mind if they did that (not saying it can't) but unlikely. Is it collusion when one free-agent already signed for $80mm? Is it collusion when Yu Darvish is getting $100 million dollar offers and turning them down because he wants $150 million dollars? I can't answer that but its a hard argument to make. Not sure where all of this is headed but it's interesting to watch. As a Twins fan I'm glad the Yankees and Dodgers are holding back. I'd like to see us get a great FA this year and at a good price!

I thought a decision was imminent this week? Again, can we please rename this thread? Still waiting...

Maybe a better way to say this would be: Where else could we make a better return on our investment?

I agree the front offices are getting more "sensible" and they are taking money out of the overpaid end of the system. However, I don't agree that it won't go back into the system. What's wrong with managing your cash wisely? Why do the Yankees and the other big market teams always do so well? They use their cash reserves to sign free-agents instead of trading away their farm prospects to build a team. If the Twins new FO can make consistent and wise FA choices (i.e., not signing Darvish to a 7 year deal) they should be in a good position going forward to offer early extensions to their younger guys before reaching free agency (Buxton) and also have the cash reserves to jump on a good FA player when the opportunity presents itself.

If you follow that logic all the way through then let the players pool their money together and buy out all the owners. Now the ballplayers own the teams. Not likely to happen...

Totally agree with this assessment. If Darvish can't find a home with a 6 or 7 year contract sit the year out or take another deal with fewer years.

I'm all for signing one of these guys to a one year contract. Why not? Seems like an excellent idea if the player and agent get desperate. I never expected the Twins would get close to signing Darvish this offseason. However, a couple of days ago I've done 180 degree turnaround. I actually think the Twins are still going to sign Darvish. Here's why: 1. Milwaukee supposedly offered a 4 year contract. Twins 5 years. Cubs are in this too but I don't think they want to increase the payroll that much. 2. The other big market teams are out of this for compelling reasons (payroll penalties). 2. Darvish wants 7 years. He can ask for that all day long but if nobody is offering that he has only 3 options: lower his expectations, sit the year out or sign a BIG one year contract (unlikely). 4. The Twins are a competitive team, with a great lineup, a great defense and a pitchers ballpark. 5. What's left? Not a lot except for the Twins...

Note to Moderators - This thread should be re-titled: "Still Waiting..."

Im trying to get down there the last week of February. I'll send pics of me and Yu shaking hands!

This is actually a great point. Think about the Yankees...One reason they are perpetually good is that they do large free-agent contracts and usually leave their farm system alone. They rarely trade away their decent prospects to get good players. They just use cash. Must be nice...