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The guy has a great track record for "toeing the rubber every 5 days" as Kevin Millar stated. He is very likely going to give us 200 IP around 4.00 ERA this summer if we were to sign him. Hopefully his homerun issues aren't a problem at TF if we do grab him. The biggest question is will he be helping or hurting us in 2016, since he is wanting a 3 year deal. I truly believe he is going to be hindering us by that time. I know, I know, everyone always says we can just trade away guys to make room for these prospects coming up, but it's not that easy when it's 10 million dollars for an old pitcher. Someone laid this out a while back in a thread about our likely rotation locks year-to-year. If we sign another free agent pitcher to a multi-year contract this off-season, it has to be a pitcher who has upside and actually strikes guys out. Otherwise, this 3rd FA pitcher is going to be blocking one of these guys in the rotation in 2016: Gibson/Meyer/May/Berrios/Stewart/ who knows who else could emerge? If Arroyo would do a 2 year deal, I think I could live with that. Anymore than that, you stunt the growth of this team. I'd offer him 2 years 24 million and leave it at that. 2014: 1 spot to battle for after Nolasco/Hughes/Correia/Arroyo 2015: 2 spots to battle for after Nolasco/Hughes/Arroyo 2016: 3 spots to battle for after Nolasco/Hughes 2017: 4 spots to battel for after Nolasco. Hopefully Gibson, Meyer, May/Berrios are up to the challenge to grab those spots in the coming years. Then of course Stewart by 2017.

BTW, I'd love to trade for Span, I believe his value is incredibly lower than last year.

I put him on my blueprint wishlist, Just thought he'd be a nice stopgap before Hicks gets back to the club and then a nice 4th OF for a couple years. I think we either need to add an OF in FA or start Hicks in CF from the get-go again. Outfield defense is very important at TF and especially with the new pitchers added. We cannot have an everyday outfields like this: Willingham-Mastro-Arcia Willingham-Pressley-Arcia Willingham-Mastro-Parmelee Willingham-Pressley-Parmelee Willingham-Mastro-Doumit Willingham-Pressley-Doumit Willingham-Mastro-Colabello Willingham-Pressley-Colabello Mastro-Pressley-Arcia Mastro-Pressley-Arcia Arcia- Pressley- Doumit/Parmelee/Doumit Okay, you get the point. We are in position to be one of these two options: A) An outfield that is AWFUL defensively. An outfield that is AWFUL offensively. My preferred choice, if we don't add an OF would be to dump Doumit. This would guarantee he is not going to play any OF for us. Also allow Willingham to DH 70% of time. If this were able to happen, I'd be okay going like this: LF: Mastro 50g, Pressley 70g, Willingham 25g, Plouffe 18g CF: Hicks 155g, Pressley 8g RF: Arcia 120g, Pressley 10g, Parmelee 25g, Mastro 8g DH: Willingham 114g, Arcia 30g, Parmelee 19g Hicks- 155 games total between OF/DH Arcia- 150 games Mastro- 58 games Pressley- 88 games Willingham- 139 games Plouffe- 18 games Parmelee- 44 games Hopefully mid-year Sano is healthy and raking and pushes Plouffe into OF role. Also hopefully late in the year Buxton would move into CF shifting Hicks to LF and putting either Pressley or Mastro out of business, I think either would be fine as a 4th outfielder, so whoever is controllable for longer probably sticks around. (I'm guessing that would be Pressley?) There are many benefits to that lineup. 1. You find out what we have in Hicks. 2. Find out if Pressley is able to stick as a stopgap/4th outfielder. 3. Find out if Arcia can be marginal in RF. 4. Hopefully build Willingham's value to trade at all-star break. 5. Should be a solid group defensively, with some potential for power.

What? #1) Who cares if Doumit doesn't want to catch? Him not catching for the Twins makes us a better team. He is a terrible freaking catcher. The only value he once had was his ability to hit for us 2 years ago. Now he is redundant and unnecessary on this roster. I wish they would find someone who wanted him. #2) Do you guys realize how ridiculous it is to say "so and so should play 3B" ??? Let's examine this for a second. Plouffe was a SS who couldn't stick at the position and is now at 3rd and in a lot of ways, he is very bad defensively. Who do you think is the better infielder/athlete? Doumit or Plouffe? Let's look at this, Sano is an exceptional athlete and has been an infielder his whole career, not a catcher, and he still has question marks about moving to corner OF or 1B instead of playing 3B. What in the heck makes you think a terrible catcher like Doumit has any chance of being adequate at an infield position let alone the 2nd hardest one to play. Come on guys. This seriously makes your credibility questionable. #3) Twins should dump him off in this trade they are hopefully going to be making next week at the Winter Meetings.

1. Trade Doumit packaged with whatever for Brett Anderson. 2. Sign Rajai Davis for 1-2 Year Contract. 3. Sign John Buck for 1 year deal. Opening Day LF Rajai Davis 2B Brian Dozier 1B Joe Mauer DH Josh Willingham RF Oswaldo Arcia C Josmil Pinto/ John Buck 3B Trevor Plouffe CF Aaron Hicks SS Pedro Florimon/Jason Bartlett 4. Trade a healthy and rebounded Willingham in July for whatever you can get. 5. Promote a mashing Sano from AA/AAA. July 20 Lineup: CF Aaron Hicks 2B Brian Dozier 1B Joe Mauer 3B Miguel Sano DH Oswaldo Arcia LF Rajai Davis RF Trevor Plouffe/Pressley C Pinto/Buck SS Florimon/Bartlett 6. Promote the next big thing. September Lineup: CF Byron Buxton 2B Brian Dozier 1B Joe Mauer 3B Miguel Sano DH Oswaldo Arcia RF Rajai Davis/Trevor Plouffe C Pinto/Buck LF Aaron Hicks SS Florimon/Bartlett 7. Fill in the spots where youngsters don't produce. Guessing a SS and an Outfielder + sign a good pitcher if Meyer doesn't show something in 2014.

It appears the deal is set, worst winning percentage is the determining factor if multiple teams hit the 20 million limit.

This is their chance. The deck is definitely stacked in their favor. I was 100% against this guy, but now that we have this opportunity, I'd throw down the 20 million and then rock and roll with negotiating. His potential is good and he is young. What say you?

Rocketpig, I'm not calling you out by any means, but what do you want to do exactly the rest of this offseason? From what I have seen, you are a no on signing Garza, No on the trade canidates proposed and a no on Salty(if I remember correctly). Do you want to stand pat until next year?

Garza is the best and most affordable FA that will not cost a draft pick until 2015, BOOK IT (yearn to be rav.....) Seriously though. Homer Bailey (more expensive, better, will cost a draft pick, rumor he will test waters) Jon Leser (better, more expensive, will cost draft pick, also would assume he gets extended.) Clayton Kershaw...really? Max Scherzer....really again? Detroit just made all of these moves to help get him re-signed long term. Justin Masterson is really the only other option and I guess we could argue who is better. 7.9 WAR over past 3 seasons vs 5.5 WAR for Garza. Which probably says Masterson is once again going to cost more than Garza will this offseason. I truly believe the market is going to go down for Garza. If he can be had for same type of money that we got Nolasco, we should snag him.

Salary dump as in, they didn't get **** in return... no pun intended.

Maybe he knows something we don't...Trade?

Fair enough. Are you saying it's "Too Early" to judge next off-season? I was just going to start a new thread about that...

What would you classify Garza as? Ace, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5? I think this is what I'm struggling with, I see the Twins are spending big bucks this year and it's very new to us. I'm worried that we are signing these guys and we will win 75 games and the FO will still have the 25 million to spend next off-season but we will pocket it and be satisfied with the 75 wins and up and coming prospects. Is it wrong of me to feel that way? Maybe. I just can foresee the Twins in the mindset of "use it or lose it" this off-season. I think Bailey is going to be traded and extended. Hopefully to us, that'd be fantastic.

RP, what happens if there isn't a Garza type next offseason? Who is supposed to be available?

Is there any chance Garza could go for less than predicted? The market has started to shake out. Almost every contract that has been handed out has been for less than I and most of you have predicted it would be. Now that quite a few pitchers are off the board for fairly decent contracts, it's possible that Garza will have to lower his demands. Trade market has started to heat up too. If Cubs trade Jeff Samardzija, I could see them re-signing Garza. If the Twins were able to get Garza for 4 years and money similar perhaps a little more than Nolasco, I'd jump all over it. If we are going to go 5 years guaranteed, I'm not sure I would like it at all. Garza, Nolasco, Hughes sure sounds appetizing at the top of the rotation for the next three years though.

I don't understand what you are saying? We don't truly know why they sat Salty in the WS do we? Salty is a better option than whatever we would have if Pinto isn't the immediate answer.

Let's fire Bruno and hire Hrbek. just kidding

Like, as in the Army?? I'm not sure he is cut out for that.

Assuming Miguel Sano's arm is healthy and he has a very productive couple months in AAA(or wherever): Does anyone see Trevor Plouffe playing well enough to be someone we could sell high on in July or move to a corner OF spot? He is in a situation we haven't seen in quite a while, probably since AJ had Mauer on his heels. AJ had a nice career(much better than plouffe) with the Twins and was able to fetch a handsome reward as we all remember. Could Poof! put up big enough numbers in the first half while he plays for a job that he has no chance of keeping? In a way, it's almost like a contract year for Plouffe. If he stinks, he will lose 3B job, be relegated to a bench role for remainder of season, likely be non-tendered and then potentially be searching for a team willing to take him on as a bench player/platoon partner. 2014 might be the most important season of Plouffe's career, what say you? Have we seen the best of Plouffe?

I'll settle for no less than a 2014 rotation of: 1- Ricky Nolasco 2- Phil Hughes 3- Kevin Mulvey 4- Phillip Humber 5- Deolis Guerra

Side Note: Could he help me out at the bar sometime?

What could you possibly have going on at work right now!? Come on man, this forum stuff is waaaaaaay more important. All jokes aside, kudos on your signings of two pitchers who could be rock solid for the organization.

Sometimes I confuse what I think Terry will do, with what I want him to do. Now that AJ and Kazmir are both off the board, I can state that I was hopeful we would land Kazmire(I keep typing that and now that he is not a Twin, will spell it that way) and I am not that too disappointed we missed on AJ, as long as we are planning an alternative. I fully believe Terry is going to do a trade for a SP now that we didn't snag Kazmire. As far as the catching position, I am hoping we offer Salty a 2/22 contract and walk away from the table and start talking to JP Arencib...that catcher from the Blue Jays that wasn't offered Arb, then try and trade(GIVE) away Doumit, just because I think he is going to be a logjam player who Gardy is going to give too many at-bats to. I think those at-bats would be better served going to Pinto/Salty at DH, once he gets called up and Arcia when he isn't in the outfield. Sadly, I'd rather sign Salty, trade Doumit, use Fryer as the only back-up catcher on 25 man roster until about June. Then bring up Pinto for Fryer for the remainder of the season. Pinto and Salty could split between C/DH with an occasional day off. Which prospects would we need to add into his trade to get a young solid pitcher, like Hellickson or Samardjza. Doumit Duensing Willingham Swarzak Hicks? May? Rosario?

Sounds like we are out on AJ. I'm guessing we aren't willing to go multi-year with him and someone else is.

If it comes down to Diamond vs Duensing, here is why I take Diamond. 1: Duensing has been a disappointing player in my eyes. Has never truly exceeded expectations and has rarely met them. He failed as a starter, and IMO he hasn't done much better as a reliever. 2: Diamond has a very good curveball, I'm not sure I would consider it a plus, but i'd consider it closer to a plus pitch than anything Duensing throws. Relievers can have great success while exhibiting 1 PLUS pitch. Duensing has that above average fastball that doesn't really blow anyone away and a slider(if i remember correctly) that doesn't seem to be very effective(not looking up numbers on it). 3: Diamond is going to cost this team less money and is controllable for longer. 4: Duensing is going to be overpaid for the job he is expected to do, when there are guys capable of doing it for less. 5: If you disagree, it's probably because you see Duensing's 8 K/9. If you look back to when Duensing was starting it was similar to Diamond's lower K/9. Duensing's fastball played up a little bit out of the pen and I'd hope for the same results for Diamond. Maybe I'm wrong, I just don't think Duensing will be worth whatever raise he will get for next season. Maybe he is someone we deal off this winter in a package.