jimmer

Probably goes down as a stupid trade even without adding the 4th rounder :-) And it's not just about a 1st rounder and a 4th rounder. The cap hit is going to hurt too. http://www.sbnation.com/2016/9/6/12797614/sam-bradford-trade-vikings-eagles-why Yes, you guys needed someone else, sure. But Bradford was a #1 pick who has flopped (for whatever reason). Now the Eagles get a first round pick for a guy who... A: is hurt a lot himself. B: hasn't been that good when he's been on the field. C: was just replaced by a rookie. But your GM did what he thought he needed to do. It's a pretty big gamble. BTW, in regards to C, that's no knock on Wentz. I'm a big fan of this rookie. Was so disappointed he went to the Eagles. It's like, how can I root for you NOW? :-)

Exactly. Couldn't find the question in there either. It's like, yeah, we recognize all the words, but they were arranged by pulling them out of a hat? Come to think of it, much like Molitor's lineups, actually.

You're not misinterpreting the graphs. What you're looking at can be found on most any sports site. They are basic defensive stats that have been around for quite some time, no cutting edge info. That info can be found on ESPN, MLB dot com, Baseball-Reference, etc. I'm really not sure what the point of comparing CS to outfield assists is though.

Wizard of Oz had five seasons with 20 or more. I'm not saying Polanco is anywhere near Ozzie, but it's another example of how errors don't really tell the story.

Often large outfield assist totals are about opportunity with people running a lot on someone. Alfonso Soriano was able to have a few years where he got a lot of assists too. Yes, Rosario has gunned some people down, but he's also made some bad throws that allowed runners to advance and he's also allowed runners to advance due to ill-advised throws (i.e., throwing to the wrong place because he over-estimated his ability). This team has to play smarter baseball. Too many fundamental mistakes. And for Rosario, between poor defensive fundamentals and the need to swing at anything within a 5 mile radius of the strike zone, he's got major holes in his game. It's why I think his future SHOULD BE 4th OF.

We could just do what Ryan did this offseason. Look at our 2015 record, actually believe the talent level on the team was that good as opposed to being the beneficiary of some advantageous sequencing on the offensive side, and then do zippidy-squat to improve weaknesses that were apparent to most everyone while other teams tried to, you know, actually get better. :-)

you don't?

I predicted Donaldson would win the AL MVP. Seems at least some didn't think Oakland won :-)

The Donaldson trade is probably the best trade this century (at least from the Jays side, not Oakland's side so much).

Somebody quoted errors. Gave a total of nine. All I did was point out that at shortstop, the position we're discussing, he had 5. I, personally, don't use errors or fielding % as a barometer for fielding prowess. Haven't since, well, I don't know, the 1970s, maybe early 80s? :-)

all that means is that it would be like most pub crawls where one never quite makes it to their last stop before they quit or pass out :-) In this case though, we're absolutely losing 100 or more.

5 errors at shortstop where he has played 223 innings.

So far, he seems fine there. Not a detriment, not a stud defender. I'm good with him being there.

A lot of sourness (nicest way to put it) on this game thread so I will wish y'all a good night and say.... GO TWINS!

For me, it's not really about finding a stat that is 100% flawless, it's about using the available stats that come closest to that. Law has called OPS a junk stat. I rarely use it. It really depends on who I'm discussing stuff with and/or if there are better stats to look at in certain situations (and if I can find them).

This isn't what I was looking for from Law, but it's something: BK (Mpls) You've moved me to become a believer in advanced metrics. My only concern is that the advanced metrics seem to be based solely on individual performance. As an avid fan, I still see the importance of RBI and Wins solely because in the end, baseball is a team sport. Klaw (1:34 PM) Team wins matter, but pitcher wins are useless if we're talking about how the pitcher performed. Again, just look at Felix Hernandez this year. Chris (Falmouth) Can you explain why RBI is considered an archaic stat and what are the stats that should be paid more attention too? Klaw (1:29 PM) Your RBI total is a function of who hits in front of you - if you have more guys on base when you bat, you get more RBI opportunities. If you want to get a picture of an individual player's actual contribution to his team, you need to use stats that are just a function of his performance, not his teammates'. Among basic stats OBP and SLG are more useful than AVG or raw RBI totals, and there are advanced stats like wOBA and WAR (which includes fielding, but not always the same metrics) that give a more complete picture. Jonathan (Wilimington) Don't you think you've gone more or less completely overboard by saying the RBI is meaningless? It's not like saying W-L's are meaningless for a pitcher (which I agree with). RBI's are only meaningless as stats in the sense that they are susceptible to hitters having fluke years, both good and bad, and hence are not a true barometer of success. However, of course if someone like Cabrera, Pujols or Votto have a lot of RBI's it still speaks of their hitting prowess. Yes? Klaw (1:38 PM) What do RBI tell us that a basic stat like SLG doesn't? I'll answer: RBI tell us that they hit behind guys who got on base a lot for them. Not useful information. Chris (Dallas, TX) re: RBI. I think people freak out about saying they are "meaningless" because it implies the act of driving in a run is meaningless. Of course driving in runs is important, it is just not indicitave of a particular skill. That about sum it up? Klaw (1:43 PM) That's pretty good. mike (woodridge) isn't the difference that early baseball statistics, such as wins and rbi, were focused on describing the events that determined the outcome of the game, whereas modern statistics is focused on events that are best fit to predict the outcome of future games? a difference between describing the past and predicting the future? Klaw (1:49 PM) I've never heard that before. Makes a lot of sense. I think the modern stats are also about isolating individual performance. Gus (NY) Greinke's ERA is phenomenal, but he only has 13 W's. Mo hasn't given up a run since April in many more pressure situations. Keith Law (1:24 PM) You have officially failed this chat. Report to Remedial Baseball immediately. First lesson: Why Wins are the worst measure of a starter's performance.

Did Colon deserve the CY Young over Santana in 2005? Was Hughes better than Felix Hernandez in 2010? Are Porcello and Happ the best pitchers in baseball this year? If you are looking at wins, the answer to all these questions is yes, right? Andruw Jones once won the RBI title with a .207/.335/.386 slash line with RISP. I'd argue he wasn't the best RBI guy that year or even close. He did, however, have 230 PA with RISP. Howard won the MVP over Pujols in large part because he had more RBI. He was a better RBI guy, it was argued. Howard with RISP: .256/.426/.518 Pujols with RISP: .397/.535/.802. But HOWARD was the better RBI guy, because of the RBI total. Nothing to do with Pujols having 170 PA with RISP and Howard having 223 PA with RISP. And Andruw Jones was a great RBI guy the year he won the RBI title. As stand alone stats, without looking any further, Wins, RBI and errors/fielding % will lead you to some bad conclusions. I wish I could find a quote I found and posted here earlier this year by Keith Law in regards to this conversation. It was awesome.

no

Well, we certainly HOPE that's the case, don't we. I know I do. BTW, it's pretty well known that OBP is undervalued in OPS. That OBP should have more value than SLG%. It's been argued by people who do advanced stats for quite some time. Good thing OPS is slowly being replaced. wRC+ I like way more. 'For a long time we had a hard time figuring out which of two hitters was better. Sure, we had OPS and OPS+, but we also knew they weren’t quite good enough. For example, two players could have the same OPS but have a different combinations of the beloved “three slash”: AVG/OBP/SLG. In that case, which hitter was better? There was a (correct) sense that OBP was generally more valuable, and measures like The Hardball Times‘ GPA ({[1.8 x OBP] + SLG}/4; invented by Aaron Gleeman) did a good job of getting at that, but it never really caught on for some reason.' http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/avgobpslg-in-an-age-of-woba/

Actually, Kepler has more than half a season under his belt, but I get what you're saying. We were talking about RBI performance though so I look at numbers with RISP. Also, I would say that Mauer's career slashline with RISP dwarfs almost everyone else in the game today. And Mauer's wRC+ is higher than Kepler's this year, though not by much. I still prefer Mauer in the two hole though, cause no HRs...

I have a hard time looking at MLB rankings for pitching and offense since, when looking at pitching number we have to consider AL pitchers have to pitch to teams with a DH (instead of pitchers) and when looking at offense, we have to consider AL teams have the DH (as opposed to pitchers hitting). 11 out of 30 is a lot more impressive than 7th out of 15.

Right, but as we look at our team and say scoring runs isn't the problem we just have to remember that those are the same guys who are hurting our pitching staff by stinking out there in the field.

Again, almost everyone who is providing this offense also plays the field. Our position players rank 11th in the AL.

That .203 BABIP with RISP makes sense with the very low BA with RISP. I sometimes forget how slugging % is the most important stat. You think the 34 point bump in slg% negates the 120 point OPS difference and the 90 point BA difference? Anyway, Mauer's OBP plays better in the 2 spot anyway,

This guy is likely going to be released end of season. He's spent a lot of time in the minors and letting him wear the MLB uniform for a month in a season like this is, well, commendable. There's a way to run a ballclub and still be a person too.