gunnarthor

I mean, eye of the beholder on young good talent, I guess. Not really going to worry about it. But even by your logic the Vikings have been ok. 2022 - Ingram (yes, https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/2022_draft.htm) and Nailor, depending on how you define starters in different packages, have been starters. 2023 - Addison and Hockinson 2024 - JJ, Turner, Reichard (can kickers be starters?) 2025 - Jackson and Mason Anyway, the original point was that focusing on the draft to evaluate Kwesi is not particularly helpful and those that do also make the draft seem worse than it was. I also wish Blackmon had developed into a starting corner for us, he didn't.

I dunno. That Jefferson guy (26) and Addison (23) are both young and seem ok. But, again, the main issue is JJ. I think he'll be really good. You don't. Not really worth arguing about.

Statements like this are kinda all over here and Daily Norseman and are troubling, to say it nicely. The Vikings, like every team, have dozens - over 50 - people involved in the draft. It's not one person. Kwesi is not "identifying talent".* He's the GM. He is not a scout. Fans seem to think this is a Madden video game. Kwesi is the guy in charge of the football side of operations and oversees everything from the draft to roster construction to payroll to relationships with agents to hiring staff (and a lot more). Which is generally why GMs should be evaluated not on one single thing - the draft - but rather actual results. Which for him is 37-20, most of the games started by the presumed back-up QB. That is in incredibly good result. For some reason, Kwesi's results are often ignored as are his strategies. Second, fans seem to overestimate the draft and how impactful it is. The average NFL career is something like 3.3 years. People complain about Ed Ingram, for example, but he was a good pick. He was taken 59th overall and amassed, at the time we traded him, the 45th most value of players in the 2022 draft. Fans seem to think that every player should be an immediate starter (he was) and a top 10 at his position. While the 24/25 draft classes are still developing, they don't look that bad. JJ is the key, obviously, but Turner has played a lot on a pretty good defense and seems to be a good scheme fit, TID, Redmond, and Levi-Rodriguez have turned themselves into solid rotational pieces on the DL, Reichard is a really good kicker. Before that, Addison, Nailor have both been good WR picks. And the team has generally been pretty good while this has been happening. Third, fans who want to complain about the draft argue that it is a logical place to complain about because the draft can get a team cheap talent. But then those same people simply ignore that the Vikings have some good young talent and focus on age b/c the Hitman hasn't retired. But we have young guys at QB, RB, WR, LT, LG, IDL, Edge, and safety. Also, Kwesi, unlike Speilman, seems more willing to use draft picks to acquire players. This seems pretty good but others may favor hoarding picks instead. I'm pretty optimistic about this team in the long term. I think the coaching staff and FO are really good. Right now, a lot rides on KOC getting JJ into a stud QB. I think he will but JJ has to get and stay healthy. * Also, the scouting people ID talent for the draft but there are then, again, literally, dozens of people (coaches and trainers) involved in trying to get the talent into a playable form. We see every NFL team struggle with this. Was Detroit wrong to pick Okudah #3 overall because he wasn't talented? Does talent = NFL readiness? Or did coaching fail him? Or was he not a fit for their system? A combination? etc. Did every NFL team that passed on Jefferson and Addison miss? Or would they have been different players in different environments?

Cripes, the roster is fine. KOC/KAM have gone 37-20 since they took over. We went 33-31 in Zimmer/Speilman's last four years. You'd think the team would have a bit more rope than this after going 2-2 with the back-up QB but instead we're being compared to the Cleveland Browns. Gads.

I just disagree with you. But it's a situation that will answer itself so it's not really worth debating. Also, it's very late in Paris, Kentucky so I'm gonna to sleep.

And that's kinda why I'm still optimistic. When JJ is healthy and gets some reps, the offense should be able to convert a few more TDs. We just have to wait but the pieces are here.

Bummer

I'm a few plays behind here in Paris Texas

I love that they don't quit. Really fun to root for.

I'm in Paris

A stop here would be nice

Very important drive here ...

That's a bit much. I think the defense had been great. They've kept us in games far longer than we should have been.

I'm a bit worried about Wentz but I'll still go with the vikes by a TD, 20-13.

Gabriel was their 3rd round pick, the one they decided was better than Sanders. They have to give him lots of rope. Eventually, Sanders will get opportunities. The only time I've seen him was a single preseason game where he looked ok but that's it. I'm sure two time coach of the year Stefanski knows what he's doing with the QB position.

I can't believe a lions player would take a cheap shot after a game. They're such a classy org. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/46578247/lions-branch-punches-chiefs-smith-schuster-setting-scrum

He's already 24. He's 5' 11". He's not Brees. He's two inches shorter than Mayfield. I think his floor is relatively safe for the reasons you stated but he won't be a top 15 QB in any season in this league.

Oh. Well, yeah, then no.

Cincy trades for Joe Flacco. That's a dumb trade, he's done. And their line will get him killed. Honestly not sure why they didn't look into Cousins instead.

Real credit to the make-shift o-line. Next Gen Stats Insight for Vikings-Browns (via NFL Pro): The Vikings limited Myles Garrett to two pressures on 35 pass rushes (5.7%), his second-lowest pressure rate in a game since 2021. The Vikings slowed him down by chipping Garrett on 42.9% of his rushes (15 of 35), the third-highest chip rate Garrett has faced since at least 2018. Justin Skule, who entered the game having allowed a 14.3% pressure rate, held Garrett without a pressure on 14 pass rush matchups.

If Lawrence could make the leap that a lot of us expected him to a few years ago ... Actually, I still think they suck but it would be good for the NFL to have another top QB.

Man, I'm 100% not going to read the articles about him. What's the 30 second version?

Wish I remember who, but one of the talking heads was convinced that Maye was the biggest bust in that QB class. Something about the offense he ran in college wouldn't translate and he couldn't stay in the pocket, even if it was clean.

I think that's right. Any given Sunday, blah blah blah. But here are the one or worse teams by record: Ravens (1-4) - How? Middle of fourth quarter week one I was saying they were the class of the NFL. Insane. I still think they'll make the playoffs because the AFC north is garbage. Raiders (1-4) - I honestly thought Geno Smith, Brock Bowers, and Pete Carroll would have this team in the respectable range, something like 7-9 wins. Titans (1-4) - Too early to give up on Ward. Their GM did a nice job of getting some picks for Theilen. But it'll take awhile to fix the team. But at least they are making good decisions. Miami (1-4) - Coach and QB are both cooked. Just ugly situation. Browns (1-4) - strong defensively but nothing on offense. Broken. Saints (1-4) - At least they beat the Giants? Giants (1-4) - At least they ain't the Jets? Five turnovers against NO? Unreal. Jets (0-5) - 0-3 at home. 0-2 in the division already. NE and Buffalo are real teams now. Defense is really bad, too.

Cincy has to make a trade. Browning is horrible but the AFC North is a mess.