Shane Wahl

Damn, I was going to say that the list of pitchers is ugly, but the comments from people who seemingly just like to piss on everything are uglier. I feel comfortable that 3 out of those 8 will be average-to-good next year (Duensing cannot seriously be considered a starter and waiting on Gibson until June at least makes the list 8). What is likely needed, however, is that 4 of them are average-to-good. I am not fully confident in that yet.

I agree with Seth, though once Diamond hits his innings mark, I would substitute in Pedro Hernandez. DeVries can take over Swarzak's spot next year (and be better . . . and be less of a moron) and has proved himself. I want to see the other six each get 5 starts to close the season. Thrylos, I have to say your position taken against Manship is odd given your position on Casilla. It's really odd that you don't see the similarity in situations (though Manship *actually* has not been given adequate time in his proper role as a starting pitcher). In any event Diamond, DeVries, and those 6 together provide me with a bit of encouragement going into an offseason that will likely involve signing only one near-top level pitcher (Marcum might be my choice there). Ideally, Diamond, Hendriks, and X would make up the bottom 3/5 of the rotation next year, but that isn't going to happen.

I am not sure how I neglected Gibson in the original post. He is a lock. Thrylos, you know that this org treats AAA like a dumping ground, so how can you claim it thinks highly of Bigley? What you and I think about the minor league system and how it ought to run is not relevant to how the Twins mistakenly do things. That they promoted Bigley is actually a *bad* sign for him. Somehow. Gibson, Hermsen, Darnell, and Hauser are good choices for pitchers. I don't think Beresford will go. I think he actually rightfully should start again at New Britain to see if he can raise that average up there. AFL 2013 for him. Benson should probably go because, like, what the hell is up with him? More at bats are needed to see what is going on there. Levi Michael and Lance Ray are two FTM options in my view, because they have progressively gotten better throughout the year.

Hicks and Herrmann repeat, then? An addition: Rene Tosoni. Wouldn't that be a good idea? If he puts up in the offense-oriented AFL, then he can stay in the org and be a AAA player to start the year. If he doesn't put up, then maybe it is time to call it quits.

Blah, blah, blah, fire the bums! Exactly who do you think was better than Dozier when he was called up? Who is better than Dozier now? Exactly what the **** does Jim Rantz have to do with it? It isn't blah, blah, blah. Dozier is better than Alexi Casilla. But that does not mean that Dozier replaces Casilla before Dozier has had a chance to prove himself this year in the minors. He had an excellent 2011 as an MI. But only into AA. I would have liked to see that extend to AAA this year, but the Twins have a ridiculous view about AAA. Dozier was NOT good in his limited time, but they promoted him anyway. I would have preferred him seeing time at both MI positions at Rochester and posting a .720+ OPS before calling him up. Casilla was there all along. Florimon has less upside and could have been the other guy on the roster when Valencia was demoted. Or Burroughs.

No time should be spent on the MI situation until the addition of 2 SP has been made.

I have been wondering of late who the Twins ought to send to the AFL in 2012. In 2011, this was the situation: Player, 2011 performance, AFL performance, 2012 result: Aaron Hicks, average, great, very good Brian Dozier, great, good, below average (no real AAA experience, misused by the Twins organization) Chris Herrmann, good, great, good (deserves promotion, obviously) Cole DeVries, average, good, above average (strangely adequate in MLB so far, but probably is best used as a replacement for Swarzak) Bruce Pugh, bad, bad, great (bounce-back 2012 provides depth for the bullpen in 2013 and easily by 2014) Dakota Watts, bad, bad, great (bounce-back 2012 provides depth for the bullpen in 2013 and easily by 2014) Brett Jacobsen, average, horrible, done (over) So what about 2012? Contenders include Herrmann again, Oswaldo Arcia, Deibinson Romero (see what happens), Chris Colabello (for real?), James Beresford (see what happens), Levi Michael and Lance Ray (because they each are coming on right now in the latter part of the season--they would be the A unlikely candidates) on the one hand, Anthony Slama (come on), Deolis Guerra, Watts again, Pugh again, Vasquez (as a starter, to see if it's for real), and Matt Hauser. There are other contenders, no doubt, but I wanted to see what people thought of this list of players and pitchers.

Rantz needs to be fired. This is clear. There was zero reason to promote Dozier given his AAA performance. This organization should view AA and AAA differently. AAA time does good things for players (see Parmelee and Revere this year, FINALLY). Stagnating them at AA and them jumping them to MLB without adequate AAA experience has demonstrated an incompetent approach to the Minors on the part of Rantz and company. Dozier is merely more evidence for my claim that significant AAA time is valuable (hopefully Hendriks continues this).

There he is, Brian Dozier, at short for Rochester tonight. This is just straight dumb as hell. There is a clear path for him at 2B. A solid defensive 2B with a bit of power and baseball smarts would be good in 2013. Casilla only had one of those qualities and Carroll two of them. They actually moved Escobar to 3B at Rochester!!!! Florimon deserves a chance, yes, but that has to come why Dozier is playing 2B in Rochester. This is obvious.

No, no, and no. The guy is going to hit 40 homers this season. You don't just trade that away if you are this organization. Willingham and Plouffe provide big-time RH power, just the very thing this team has traditionally lacked. There are plenty of cases of mid-30s players hitting 30+ homers or 25+ homers, and Willingham is now on the incline, NOT the decline in terms of power and everything else. It's just DUMB to trade him. The Twins have him for 2 more years at 14 million bucks. Morneau will make 14 million bucks in one year. HE is the guy that you trade for a SP. Not a prospect, but an actual legitimate MLB SP. That's the trade to be made. Add a FA signing and the Twins have a whole different outlook next year. Again: trading Willingham is stupid.

Brian Dozier will be the best 2B option. SS rightfully ought to be a battle between Florimon and Carroll. I would like the Twins to pay ZERO attention to the MI situation and focus only on starting pitching.

1. Miguel Sano 2. Oswaldo Arcia 3. Eddie Rosario 4. Aaron Hicks 5. Byron Buxton 6. J.O. Berrios 7. Max Kepler 8. Kyle Gibson 9. Joe Benson 10. Travis Harrison 11. Hudson Boyd 12. Chris Herrmann

Deduno will be a good asset to have in AAA next year to be called upon to come up in this kind of role again (but hopefully only one start here and one start there).

Dozier belongs as a second baseman, so IF he plays there in Rochester, I am ok with this. If this is merely a "sent message" than it is completely barbarically dumb. WHY wait THIS long to send a message? I have to believe this is about a position move. And I am glad to see Florimon get the chance. I think next year's starting MI will be Florimon at SS and Dozier at 2B with Carroll as the UTIL infielder. Worst case scenario is that Carroll and Florimon swap those roles. Escobar is a dud and a half. Get that straight right now. James Beresford has more potential than Escobar.

100% agree with Mr. Mackey on this one! It's a specious argument. It also a rhetorical trick. The trick is this: instead of debating a point honestly, choose the most extreme possible viewpoint and portray that as the opposing side. That gives lots of room for fire, brimstone and proselytizing. In this case, the extreme point seems to be that payroll is not THE BIGGEST factor in winning and losing. And if it's not the biggest, it must not be important. The absurdity of the initial argument becomes clear when one carries it through to its natural conclusion: if payroll isn't important, why not cut it further? Why not go back to 2000, when it was under $20M? That is absurd, of course. Which is why a writer sticks to hammering his philosophical point - "it's not that important" - instead of engaging in a discussion of the real-world example. (BTW, I'm quite sure I've done the same thing. I'm not blasting Mackey for this. I'm just saying that it's easy to take it too far.) In this case, the real-world examples are this: 1) The Twins payroll went down $13M or so in the same year that MLB payrolls went up a few percent. To suggest that the Twins couldn't have used that $13M to improve their ball club this year is ridiculous. It doesn't mean they would have spent it wisely. It doesn't mean they would have competed. But it's silly to suggest that would have made the team worse. 2) If the Twins cut payroll again this year it will further limit them. I don't disagree that free agency shopping can encourage "laziness." But we have a team starved for starting pitching and a free agent market that is loaded for starting pitching. That could not be a better situation provided they don't shy away from spending some money. That doesn't fix all the problems, but it can fix that problem, and it's likely that there are going to be some huge bargains this year the same way Willingham looks like a huge bargain. Again, I can't see anyway one can reasonably argue that now having an extrt $10-15M to spend is unimportant. ~~~ I'll make one more point that gets me a little more riled up. It is AWFULLY CONVENIENT for the Twins to start with the "payroll isn't that important" three years after they start to live in a publicly subsidized stadium. I don't remember them making that argument back when they were lobbying for a new stadium. At that point, the mantra was that they "have trouble competing" in their stadium. Seemingly, it was important then. This is a damn good post.

If I knew ahead of time that this would be the one chance to see an OF of Hicks-Span-Revere, I would say call him up. I hope this is possible next year, however . . . I don't like calling either up, nor do I like sending either to AFL.

Roberts is a stolen base machine this year in limited time. And he is skilled at getting hit by pitches, indeed. New Britain's lineup has come to be fantastic for the second year in a row.

I hope Roberts can have an injury-free 2013. There seems to be an increase in homers this year, but maybe I am wrong.

I am just going to wait the rest of the minor league season out before making decisions. I definitely favor production at higher levels in the system though, so that benefits Hicks, Arcia, and Herrmann.

So since he is making $23 million it doesn't matter if the Twins don't try to win while he is still productive? Players are not motivated only, or primarily, by money.

I have tried to block memories of that whole discussion out! Maybe Jose Berrios will be a fast riser though.

I agree about Span/Morneau (and I hope it will be Morneau who is traded). And I STRONGLY agree about competing in 2013 does not entail or imply in the slightest that 2014 and 2015 are sacrificed. I don't get that thinking at all. Even if the Twins surprised everyone and signed 2 $15+ million pitchers . . . those guys are going to be around in 2015. I would like to stomach 2013, and it doesn't seem totally bizarre to think that 85 wins or more is possible given that this is the pace the Twins have been on since they were 10-26.

This is exactly why I don't like to hear talk of waiting for 2014 or 2015.

Vasquez (he has been very good since a bad April) working as a starter now does add to his value and I would like to see him get a chance. It *is* true that 2-5 next year (at least by June) could be Gibson-Diamond-Hendriks-Vasquez (or Walters). I would guess that the Twins will go that route and spend legitimately on one very good starting pitcher (Marcum, for instance). I would prefer two of them though. One option in between a $10+ million and a AA prospect who won't be ready in 2013, is to trade instead for guys in their arbitration years right now who have been good this year. The Twins could perhaps get Marcum for $4/50 and one younger arb pitcher for $2/$4 million . . . etc. or whatever. Pitchers in arbitration, team, year of FA: Chris Sale, CHW 2017 Jarrod Parker, OAK, 2018 (?) Matt Harrison, TEX, 2015 Tommy Milone, OAK, 2018 Jason Hammel, BAL, 2014 Jeremy Hellickson, TB, 2017 Jordan Zimmermann, WAS, 2016 James McDonald, PIT, 2016 Wade Miley, WAS, 2018 Lance Lynn, STL, 2018 Vance Worley, PHI, 2018 Clayton Richard, SDG, 2015

The org roster and contracts is very nice! Thank you.