Shane Wahl

I like this way of thinking about it. Putting the first hurdle at full season ball and the second as the jump to AA. I think Hi A can be a decent starting place for a college player, but Michael was pushed pretty aggressively considering the fact he was on the young side for a junior and the fact he was injured for much of last year. Next year will really be the telling year for him. This also goes to thinking of having no problem with a prospect like Sano spending the whole season at Beloit, but to then be more aggressive the following years (see for example Arcia last year). After one full season it makes sense to be more aggressive when called for. I am glad you like it, but the Twins do not. They stagnate players all the time in A+ and AA (and pitchers in E-Town and A+). If Sano does very well or better through June for Fort Myers, i will start going crazy if they don't then promote him. There is nothing wrong with playing at AA or AAA for more than year if one has been pushed aggressively before then.

Chris Herrmann ended the year quite well. For the season: 558 PA, .276/.350/.392 (.742), with 25 doubles, 1 triple, and 10 homers, a 58/89 bb/k rate, and a majority of his time at catchers (then LF and one game at 3B). He has a .754 OPS in AA in almost 1,000 plate appearances. My word, how is this not a valuable asset for the Twins going forward instead of Drew Butera? Even a .700 OPS in a 2.5 catcher/5th OF/lefty PH (though great against lefties) role in 200 PA would be a great improvement for the Twins. Then he replaces Doumit down the line. Herrmann is headed back to the AFL, so it will be interesting to see how he does there. I don't think there is much to prove. He would have benefit from about 100 AAA plate appearances this year, but apparently this inept organization disagrees.

Trading Morneau is not about saving money, it is about being able to use that money to make one (just ONE, please, Terry?) FA starting pitcher signing that means something beyond the Jeremy Guthries of the world. Morneau could yield one top prospect and some lower prospect (the Twins could throw in something else like Swarzak and Bigley).. You're dreaming if you think Morneau gets a top prospect or if the money saved will be reinvested in order for the Twins to compete in 2013; if the Twins trade Morneau this offseason, I'll take it as a whiteflag for 2013. In any case, the Twins will already be tens of millions below budget. They can afford Morneau and starting pitchers if they choose. I guess I wonder what you mean by top prospect. I mean a top 5-8 prospect within whatever team it is (Toronto, Texas, Boston, etc.). This changes a lot if the Twins are willing to pay some of his salary. They will be pressed to return to 98 million even with Morneau. Parmelee could reasonably produce the exact same numbers in 2013 as Morneau 2012.

Great article. It defies reason and demonstrates a lack of intelligent GMing (and so forth . . . to whomever is involved in influencing these kinds of decisions). Goddamn, start Hicks with Revere in the OF for a few games and imagine Span there too. Or if Span comes back in the second half of this month, start all three. That WOULD be entertaining. Furthermore, why risk injury to Morneau or Doumit? Call up Arcia. Why use innings on Burton, Duensing, and Perkins, the three guaranteed anchors in the 2013 bullpen? Use Guerra, Slama, and Waldrop there. It's as though they are still concerned about 2012 somehow. Jamey Carroll started tonight. Why? Escobar-Florimon would have been worth a look.

It's September . . . limit the innings of Burton, Duensing (who they decided in some crazy idiotic fashion to start), and Perkins. Let other guys pitch. Guerra and Slama are obvious choices. It is not as thought there is AAA baseball going on right now.

7 innings. You are aware of how dominant he has been in AAA, right? Real scouts know that seeing-eye scouting and statistics should line up. Statistics are fairly objective, by the way. What some scout sees is subjective. You are aware of this difference, right?

When his reasoning is based on fallacies, I think its more shocking that anyone WOULD appreciate his reasoning I agree. The reasoning is barbarically stupid. This team didn't even invite Slama to ST this year, instead hoping on Matt Maloney and Jeff Gray (one wonders how this would have played out if Maloney hadn't been brutally awful but merely Gray-esque this year . . . no Tyler Robertson?). AGAIN. Terry Ryan seems to take a dig at people who look at stats. Imagine looking at stats to evaluate a player! Slama has not been "good" . . . he has been totally dominant this year. The problem is not the particulars of the Slama situation. It is that this team has a mindset of evaluation that is in the 20th century. You don't sign Nick Blackburn to a multi-year deal while he is in arbitration unless you are a poor evaluator. You don't trot out Jeff Gray again and again unless you are a poor evaluator. You don't keep Slama in AAA unless you are a poor evaluator. The Twins CLEARLY want him to go away because they don't want to give him the chance to demonstrate how damn foolish they have been. It is not Slama's case alone and it is not the collection of cases . . . it is the reasoning (or lack thereof) that is the problem.

Trading Morneau is not about saving money, it is about being able to use that money to make one (just ONE, please, Terry?) FA starting pitcher signing that means something beyond the Jeremy Guthries of the world. Morneau could yield one top prospect and some lower prospect (the Twins could throw in something else like Swarzak and Bigley). He has one near full season with very few injury issues and is back to .270 and 20+ power. Willingham brings the biggest return, but he also is that RH power bat the Twins have lacked for a LONG time. There is only a "glut" of CF if you consider Ben Revere really to be a CF, which I don't. Hicks still has to demonstrate that he can be good to very good in AAA. Benson is a question mark. And BOTH could be RF as well.

Hey, don't be shy! You can use your full name as your user name so we know who you are! I think I might put Buxton down a little further. It'll be interesting to see what national evaluators think, but I'd much rather have the four other guys in the top five, just because they have less risk than Buxton. (But I'm not sure others really think like that.) Also, THE DFC, I agree. I was trying to think of the last time I was this excited about the fruits of the minor league system. I think it might have been 2003, when Morneau was being called up and Mauer and Kubel were looking like future stars. I just wish there weren't so many outfielders on the list. I continue to hope that the Twins work hard to keep Sano and Rosario in the infield. I hope they do not give up on Rosario at second either. I don't think he was *that* bad there in his time. Another off-season of practice there should help. Sano can move to 1B if he has to and not further clog up the OF.

I assumed that Parmelee wasn't in the top 10 simply because of the amount of playing time with the Twins?

I think the big year for Sano starts when he starts at New Britain. I see two big steps to be made for position players in the minors. The first is to full-season ball (almost always Beloit, except for poor Levi Michael) and the second is to AA. Sano passed his first test with some room for improvement (to be worked on at Fort Myers, if he starts to improve the K/rate, move him up to AA and begin to figure out where exactly to put him while his bat is tested in AA). I would say much the same for all batters like him. If, on the other hand, a player has plate discipline and a decent k rate already, I want to see more time at Rochester (would apply to Hicks and Herrmann, should have already been applying to Herrmann for the second half of 2012). Vargas will be one of my guys to watch next year. If he really takes off, the Twins will have a much different look in their system.

Willingham would bring back a fairly big haul, the biggest out of all of them. But that 30+ homer power is valuable for the Twins, and it comes cheaply. The debacle that was Joe Benson's 2012 season had quite an impact.

One would hope that an OF of Revere-Span-Willingham would be possible next year. Can't they make that work, please? Trading Morneau (I do think they could get quite a bit of value--it isn't like he is going to be making MORE than $14 million a year after 2013, so teams can think of him as a one-year rental or a longer term declining price option) is the most direct solution to the Parmelee situation that doesn't sacrifice much defense or speed. If the Twins pick up a bit of that $14 million, the return could be very good. I would prefer trading Revere over Span, as well (because of Hicks). That would have to be in the offseason, though. Span is going to draw more at the deadline. I would like to see Hicks actually get some time in RF in Rochester because of that arm. If they kept BOTH Revere and Span while promoting Hicks at some point next year . . . on some day off for Mauer or Doumit or Parmelee, the Twins would have a ridiculously awesome defensive OF. Convincing Revere to play LF and Willingham to play RF has to be on the damn agenda.

Haha, I know. Chris Colabello, Deibinson Romero, Evan Bigley . . . for guys they could have called up for that. Or, not using Doumit when they did (forcing Thornton to come in and then having to turn Doumit around!? and not using Matt Carson as a pinch RUNNER).

The thing about Carroll is that he is going ape right now. The dude somehow hit a home run yesterday. This could have been used in April and May instead, certainly! The complaint about Dozier is not simply about not getting called up. It is about the total mismanagement of him this year. They promoted him without giving him a chance to work out in AAA first (after doing great in A and very good in AA), then they kept him around when he was clearly overmatched, then they sent him down, oddly, with only a few weeks left in the Rochester season, and now they have ended his season without him doing anything! That's inept and/or insane. Furthermore, Escobar has never been good offensively in the minors. Unlike Dozier, he has demonstrated no offensive prowess ever in the minors. I am also confused about his defense . . . where is he going to play? I thought he was a SS, but apparently he is more like a 3B/2B utility type. That's not very good. I see him as potentially replacing Jamey Carroll in 2014 in what hopefully is Carroll's 2013 role (utility man). That means AAA time and probably what should have been AFL time. Trying out a Florimon-Dozier MI would have been worth seeing, clearly. That is obviously true.

I fear that this OF being trotted out there is going to be the OF for 2013. This means mistakenly trading Span instead of Morneau. This means having a weak OF defense. I would maintain that there is no room for Morneau, Parmelee, Doumit, and Mauer all on the roster at the same time unless they just keep Parmelee in RF the whole time. The obvious solution is to trade Morneau for pitching and play Parmelee at 1B. But what obvious is not what the Twins will do.

You just don't get it do you? Nobody is predicted he will be the next Dennis Eckersley. And those players you mentioned, never dominated on the leval that Slama has. All people are saying is he deserves a real chance. He deserved a chance earlier in the year, he deserved a chance after he came back from injury, and he deserves a chance now. So again, who cares what you or anybody else thinks his "upside" could be, the numbers he has put up year after year can not be ignored. I agree, I don't care what I think. I care what you think. Let's say you were the GM of the Twins and you have one open 40 man roster spot. Looking at the current strengths and weaknesses on the roster, tell me why you think the most pressing need is to fill that spot with a 28-year old right handed reliever with very impressive numbers in the International League. Leave it open for what reason? The last 3-4 spots should be a revolving door anyway.

Michael has done nothing to be promoted to AA. If he gets promoted it will be only because of the bonus money the team threw at him. Keep him at FM next year. Grimes had a poor offensive year so Beloit does not have an obvious SS bearing down on him. So Michael has one more year to prove he can play. But if AJ Peterson gets promoted I would expect him to out play Michael. Again, plate discipline is a key skill. His OBP was .339. He also played in a pitchers' league in his first year of pro ball. Promoting him also means Eddie Rosario's second base path is clearly open (which I think is necessary).

We will see. The offense should be good but the pitching staff will have a lot of 2012 draft picks being starters for their first full seasons and that could be a dicey affair. The organization is looking strong when it comes to hitters but its pitching still looks very weak. Hopefully Berrios will be the star at Beliot next year with someone like Mark Appel as his wing man after the 2013 draft. I don't even know if Berrios will start out at Beloit (innings). Anyway, Tim Shibuya will be back. I don't know how many innings some of those guys threw in HS or college, so I am not totally worried about some of them and their innings. Boyd and Mata should be pretty good for 80-90 innings at least. The relief pitching is going to be pretty stellar at least until some of those guys hopefully get promoted to Fort Myers (after the draft).

The discussion regarding outfield depth that took place earlier in the season was interesting because it had almost been assumed that the outfield was the brightest spot in the Twins system. In the early-to-mid part of the season, legitimate question marks about the outfield depth were raised. Joe Benson (24, AA/AAA), and Rene Tosoni (26, AA/AAA), the two prospects who had been with the Twins in 2011 for a bit of time, were struggling and struggling with injuries, and the only other prospect to be having a good year at the time was Oswaldo Arcia. Now at the beginning of September, things have changed dramatically, though it isn't because of a change in Benson or Tosoni. Instead, Oswaldo Arcia (21, AA) and Aaron Hicks (22, AA) have turned in good-to-great seasons at AA. Arcia has not missed a step in his promotion to AA. He posted a .328/.398/.557 line with 10 homers in 299 plate appearances. Hicks emerged with a 286/.384/.460 line that amounted to the highest OPS of his career since the GCL in 2008. He also increased his power (13 homers) and stole 32 bases in 43 attempts. The AAA/AAAA contingent of outfielders (Darin Mastroianni, Matt Carson, Evan Bigley and Wilkin Ramirez) provide good 4th and 5th OF options. Chris Herrmann (24, AA), while mainly a catcher this year, still would provide 5th OF status for the Twins and should be a solid bench player for the Twins in the near future. Further down the line, Lance Ray (23, A) and Danny Ortiz (22, A) each produced OK seasons, but still show promise and, most importantly, improved overall from 2011. Ray's .234/.327/.403 slash with 13 homers and and improved BB/K rate signals good progress in his development. Ortiz's .269/.313/.424 line with 8 homers is also a step in the right direction, and he was promoted early in the season from low-A. While Angel Morales (22, A) and JD Williams (21, low-A) are now big question marks, Nate Roberts (23, A) has been excellent once again. He posted a .299/.433/.427 slash in his repeat Beloit season and walked more than he struck out (44/37). If healthy in 2013, he could end the season in New Britain. Romy Jimenez (21, Rookie) turned in a great year for E-Town and Candido Pimentel (22, Rookie) had a small breakthrough there while also playing some second base. Most importantly, Max Kepler (19, Rookie) had a huge breakout season and is going to move on to Beloit next year with increased power and plate discipline. His statistics were a sight for sore eyes: .297/.387/.539 with 16 doubles, 5 triples, and 10 homers in 269 plate appearances. He is emerging as a top 10 prospect for the Twins. Finally, Byron Buxton (18, Rookie) was promoted from the GCL and actually improved a bit after the promotion. Dereck Rodriguez (20, Rookie) was very good (.783 OPS) for the GCL Twins and the Danny Valencia trade brought in another quality player in Jeremias Pineda (21, Rookie). While Rodriguez will likely start for E-Town next year, Pineda might move up to Beloit as a 4th OF. I have not discussed Rory Rhodes (21 A/Rookie)--who was a 3B, then a 1B, and is now a potential corner OF--nor did I mention Zach Larson (18, Rookie) or Kelvin Ortiz (20, Rookie) from the GCL. With Benson and Tosoni included, I have mentioned 23 outfield candidates from Mastroianni and Carson currently on the Twins 25 man roster to players drafted in 2012. Surely, these players range from potential stars to never-will-make-it-to-show-players, but they are all valuable contributors and demonstrate, as a whole, that there is significant OF depth in the system, especially up through Beloit. Only time will tell with these players, but I think it is now safe to say that there really is OF depth in the Twins' system.

The discussion regarding outfield depth that took place earlier in the season was interesting because it had almost been assumed that the outfield was the brightest spot in the Twins system. In the early-to-mid part of the season, legitimate question marks about the outfield depth were raised. Joe Benson (24, AA/AAA), and Rene Tosoni (26, AA/AAA), the two prospects who had been with the Twins in 2011 for a bit of time, were struggling and struggling with injuries, and the only other prospect to be having a good year at the time was Oswaldo Arcia. Now at the beginning of September, things have changed dramatically, though it isn't because of a change in Benson or Tosoni. Instead, Oswaldo Arcia (21, AA) and Aaron Hicks (22, AA) have turned in good-to-great seasons at AA. Arcia has not missed a step in his promotion to AA. He posted a .328/.398/.557 line with 10 homers in 299 plate appearances. Hicks emerged with a 286/.384/.460 line that amounted to the highest OPS of his career since the GCL in 2008. He also increased his power (13 homers) and stole 32 bases in 43 attempts. The AAA/AAAA contingent of outfielders (Darin Mastroianni, Matt Carson, Evan Bigley and Wilkin Ramirez) provide good 4th and 5th OF options. Chris Herrmann (24, AA), while mainly a catcher this year, still would provide 5th OF status for the Twins and should be a solid bench player for the Twins in the near future. Further down the line, Lance Ray (23, A) and Danny Ortiz (22, A) each produced OK seasons, but still show promise and, most importantly, improved overall from 2011. Ray's .234/.327/.403 slash with 13 homers and and improved BB/K rate signals good progress in his development. Ortiz's .269/.313/.424 line with 8 homers is also a step in the right direction, and he was promoted early in the season from low-A. While Angel Morales (22, A) and JD Williams (21, low-A) are now big question marks, Nate Roberts (23, A) has been excellent once again. He posted a .299/.433/.427 slash in his repeat Beloit season and walked more than he struck out (44/37). If healthy in 2013, he could end the season in New Britain. Romy Jimenez (21, Rookie) turned in a great year for E-Town and Candido Pimentel (22, Rookie) had a small breakthrough there while also playing some second base. Most importantly, Max Kepler (19, Rookie) had a huge breakout season and is going to move on to Beloit next year with increased power and plate discipline. His statistics were a sight for sore eyes: .297/.387/.539 with 16 doubles, 5 triples, and 10 homers in 269 plate appearances. He is emerging as a top 10 prospect for the Twins. Finally, Byron Buxton (18, Rookie) was promoted from the GCL and actually improved a bit after the promotion. Dereck Rodriguez (20, Rookie) was very good (.783 OPS) for the GCL Twins and the Danny Valencia trade brought in another quality player in Jeremias Pineda (21, Rookie). While Rodriguez will likely start for E-Town next year, Pineda might move up to Beloit as a 4th OF. I have not discussed Rory Rhodes (21 A/Rookie)--who was a 3B, then a 1B, and is now a potential corner OF--nor did I mention Zach Larson (18, Rookie) or Kelvin Ortiz (20, Rookie) from the GCL. With Benson and Tosoni included, I have mentioned 23 outfield candidates from Mastroianni and Carson currently on the Twins 25 man roster to players drafted in 2012. Surely, these players range from potential stars to never-will-make-it-to-show-players, but they are all valuable contributors and demonstrate, as a whole, that there is significant OF depth in the system, especially up through Beloit. Only time will tell with these players, but I think it is now safe to say that there really is OF depth in the Twins' system.

I know, right? I know little about the kind of person Slama is, but I can imagine him saying . . . "trade me for that damn box of rocks, then." It defies all rationality to do this to him unless they don't want to look like idiots OR have some master plan to just start the season next year with him . . . It is weird, but it is this situation and what it exemplifies that pushes me towards the "new blood" crowd and the pipe dream wish of firing TR, Gardy, and company (only new ownership would ever bring that about). Welcome to the Darkside, Shane.:fenforcer: It took me awhile, but yeah. Minor league promotions, promotions to the MLB club, the payroll situation, and the medical situation have combined to make it closer and closer for me. This pushes me over.

Great way to end a great season. That team was loaded. Beloit is going to dominate next year.

I know, right? I know little about the kind of person Slama is, but I can imagine him saying . . . "trade me for that damn box of rocks, then." It defies all rationality to do this to him unless they don't want to look like idiots OR have some master plan to just start the season next year with him . . . It is weird, but it is this situation and what it exemplifies that pushes me towards the "new blood" crowd and the pipe dream wish of firing TR, Gardy, and company (only new ownership would ever bring that about).

I am likely going to put them pretty damn close to each other, with both maybe in the low 20s (I could be wrong . . . I have a sense that maybe some pitchers are going to be moving significantly up my list . . . which is nice). Michael had a higher OBP even though he hit significantly less. I do NOT want to push an Aaron Hicks comparison, but plate discipline is a good skill to have when you are 21. If Michael starts hitting .260 or .270, then I will be higher on him than Santana (unless he improves his plate discipline). I guess I need more information on Santana defensively. I guess I thought he was better defensively?