Shane Wahl

NB and FM, respectively, I would think.

I agree. I think it is only a matter of time. Hopefully the E-Town guys can hit well so that CR doesn't end up depleted.

Herrmann is clawing his way up and now has a AAA OPS of .622. He has caught 9 out of 22 runners (41%) at Rochester this season, which is close to his 44% rate at AA last year. At least that aspect of his defense is going well and 1 1/3 seasons of 42% CS% is a good sign.

Williams has gone wild of late, going 7-for-16 in his past four games, homering in Sunday's game. His .825 OPS with 13 stolen bases is nothing to scoff at this far into the season. This is a big turnaround from last year and surely means good things for Williams for the rest of the season as he eyes that promotion. He will be getting some CF time now for awhile first.

.353/.424/.396 (.820) in 161 plate appearances. This is pretty remarkable to see a player jump from GCL to the FSL and hit this well. I can't imagine very many Twins players ever making such a jump for this long, much less being this successful. Mejia has only one error this year in the middle infield.

Lot to respond to here! My computer went dead as hell so I was away for the weekend. I think that it is likely that TR would favor the younger guys here, though I like Jose Ramirez and Tim Berry. Kingham, one of the Rays' SS, Hader/Berry, and Ramirez/Goody would be a decent haul. The Twins are not going to trade all four, I suppose. I have to think Doumit is most likely, then Willingham, then Morneau, and then Plouffe. And I was not going to list Jamey Carroll here because it is damn hard to find prospect lists for other teams beyond 30 at most. Carroll is valuable to NL teams for a few reasons. He's gotta hit a little better though. Thanks for the promotion, by the way. This did take awhile to do (and I started it before Plouffe came back), mainly because there are no Seth Stohs' clones out there, at least not for any of those four teams.

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=1923-Trading-Away-The-Position-Players

Great article, average team. The best players here will be in Cedar Rapids soonish and the rest are problematic. How Rhodes is not immediately sent to CR is beyond me.

I was high on Darnell a year ago at the beginning and then soured. I just needed to be more patient. There is no need to mess around with many of these pitchers right now. Darnell needs AAA time now.

Given that A- to A+ and A+ to AA are the biggest jumps, I would always like to get players' feet wet in the season before they start there. Always.

With regard to Polanco, I am fine with this until the last 3-4 weeks of the season. I would then promote him to Fort Myers to give him a taste of it before next season begins. Same for Goodrum.

It will happen very soon. There are some logistical issues with E-Town just starting and whatnot. I don't think Buxton is the only move from CR. (Hicks, Walker, and Williams).

Diamond and Pelfrey both have problems and need to be DLed. Gibson and Albers can come up.

Well a modified one could be in order. If the Twins had a viable lefty CF this would have helped Hicks and the Twins. I think that young guys who have big splits need to see major league pitching, period. If this involves a modified platoon, so be it. I would, without a doubt think that Dozier is going to ultimately be better than Escobar. But we'll see.

Yes, I am going to do this for pitchers, though I really only see Burton and Duensing as viable trade-bait. Given that there are no great or good starters to be dealt this year league-wide, MAYBE I will include Correia. DAM DC Twins Fans: well, I could go lower on these lists, if possible. The problem is that there seems to be basically zero Seth Stohs-esque writers for most teams. Prospect lists MIGHT go to 30, but I have had a hard time digging there. Anyway, given that Liriano was traded for TWO of this level type player, I don't think it is that crazy to make a claim for legitimate trade value here. These guys are NOT top prospects in the strictest sense of the term and teams are going to be willing to add major leaguers to fill holes. Plouffe to the Pirates, for instance, makes a bunch of sense. They need some more pop. Etc. etc.

Do you even know what a "C prospect" is?

Did I say No. 1 prospect? How is that the only value back in a trade? What a totally ridiculous strawman bunch of garbage. Getting a Tyler Duffey or Danny Ortiz type back is possible. Stop being ridiculous.

Trading Plouffe now is not the deal. Trading him at the end of July is what's up. Pittsburgh . . . Anyway, the Twins could finish out with Romero at third and even begin next season with him there. Get what you can. Add depth to the system.

This is the time when people often make some wild trade speculations. I try not to do that here, but to propose who could be traded and what is realistic to get in return. The Twins can do very well here if they are willing to be sellers. The Twins are going to have to make some key decisions about who to keep and what they can get for 2014 and beyond. In what follows, I lay out some moves that could be made for the short and long term as the Twins try to figure out 2014 and the future. I am starting with top position players first as these guys should be first on the trading block. The big four are: --Josh Willingham (rationale: Arcia) --Justin Morneau (rationale: stop gaps in Colabello and Parmelee, could be re-signed anyway) --Trevor Plouffe (rationale: don't want to part ways, but Sano sticking at third or another stop gap player to fill in here makes Plouffe a good asset to trade) --Ryan Doumit (rationale: Herrmann and Pinto) Relevant playoff contenders with low OPS at these positions: --3B: New York Yankees (.615), Pittsburgh Pirates (.638) --1B: New York Yankees (.696), Tampa Bay Rays (.800, but falling rapidly) --C: Cincinnati Reds (.617), Baltimore Orioles (.634), New York Yankees (.640) --LF: New York Yankees (.660) --DH: Tampa Bay Rays (.682), Baltimore Orioles (.700), New York Yankees (.709). As is clear, the New York Yankees have some holes all over as they deal with a number of injuries and some quickly fading stop-gap players. The Orioles and Rays also appear twice. Finally, two National teams make the list, but I am going to remove the Reds from consideration of Ryan Doumit, because Doumit's value seems to come from his ability to catch and fill in as the designated hitter. Some potential pairings would include: Willingham-Yankees Plouffe-Pirates, Yankees Doumit-Orioles, Yankees Morneau-Rays, Orioles, Yankees I realize that "top prospects" as in top 100 or even 200 overall are going to be off limits in exchange for these guys. But, being someone who analyzes the Twins system and has a "Top 60" list on a regular basis, I find a lot of value in players on individual team lists ranging from 11-30 quite often, especially given the volatility of such lists and the volatility of the grades that even Sickels places on players. So, here are five guys from each of the four teams above who are not on many team top ten lists and often fall between 12 and 20 or lower on such lists. For comparison's sake, in the Twins system this would mean players like Danny Santana, Tyler Duffey, Matt Hauser, Nate Roberts, Niko Goodrum, Danny Ortiz and the like. And several of those players have been on the rise from lower parts of the list over the past few years. New York Yankees: Nik Turley, LHP, starter, 23 (AA/AAA this year) 2013 AA: 4.90 ERA, 64.1 innings, 71/33 K/BB (AAA: 1.50, 1, 6.0, 4/3) Twins system: likely headed to New Britain Bryan Mitchell, LHP, starter, 22 (A+) 2013 A+: 4.74, 76.0, 62/34 Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers Dan Camarena, LHP, starter, 20 (A) 2013 A: 6.34, 49.2, 36/13 Twins system: likely headed to Cedar Rapids Jose Ramirez, RHP, starter, 23 (AA/AAA) 2013 AA: 2.76, 42.1 50/15 (AAA: 4.50, 4.0 5/4) Twins system: likely headed to Rochester Nick Goody, RHP, reliever, 21 (A+) 2013 A+: 3.00, 3.0 3/2. 2012 A: 1.09, 24.2, 40/7) Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers Baltimore Orioles: Tim Berry, LHP, starter, 22 (A+) 2013 A+: 4.54, 69.1, 66/17 Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers Zach Davies, RHP, starter, 20 (A+) 2013 A+: 3.63, 74.1, 58/19 Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers. Devin Jones, RHP, starter, 22 (AA) 2013 AA: 4.84, 67.0, 58/20 Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers Josh Hader, LHP, starter, 19 (A) 2013 A: 1.94, 60.1, 56/30 Twins system: likely head to Cedar Rapids. Torsten Boss, LH, 3B, 22 (A) 2013 A: 221, .251/.333/.405 (.738), 11/2/5, 23/49, 2-3 Twins system: likely headed to Cedar Rapids. Tampa Bay Rays: Tyler Goeddel, RH, 3B/SS, 20 (A) 2013 A: 239, .252/.345/.398 (.743), 6/6/4, 28/41, 13-17 Twins system: likely head to Cedar Rapids Brandon Martin, RH, SS, 19 (A) 2013 A: 50, .244/.280/.422 (.702), 2/0/2, 2/10, 0-1 Twins system: likely headed to Cedar Rapids Felipe Rivero, LH, starter, 21, (A+) 2013 A+: 3.28, 61.1, 53/24 Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers Jeff Ames, RHP, starter, 22 (A) 2013 A: 2.47, 58.1 42/10 Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers Jake Hager, SS, 20 (A+) 2013 A+: 242, .290/.344/.353, 10/2/0, 18/36, 9-16 Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers. Pittsburgh Pirates: Vic Black, RHP, reliever, 25 (AAA) 2013 AAA: 2.62, 24.0, 33/11 Twins system: likely headed to Rochester Nick Kingham, RHP, starter, 21 (A+/AA) 2013 A+: 3.09, 70, 75/14 Twins system: likely headed to New Britain Adrian Sampson, RHP, starter, 21 (A+) 2013 A+: 5.56, 66.1, 37/12 (2012 numbers in A ball included a 9.3/9 K rate) Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers Max Moroff, SH, SS, 20 (A) 2013 A: 248, .228/.350/.351 (.701), 9/1/5, 39/40, 4-9 Twins system: likely headed to Cedar Rapids Alex Dickerson, LH, 1B/RF, 23 (AA) 2013 AA: 216, .238/.285/.417 (.702) 17/2/5, 13/51, 3-5 Twins system: likely headed to New Britain There are 20 players of varying worth and perfomance, but I think the Twins should mostly focus on pitching. Would I trade all four? Likely, yes. The return that would be nice is a couple of starting pitchers, one reliever, and one infielder. Regardless, I think this casts some reality over the trade outlook for these players. That reality is not bleak by any means.

This is the time when people often make some wild trade speculations. I try not to do that here, but to propose who could be traded and what is realistic to get in return. The Twins can do very well here if they are willing to be sellers. The Twins are going to have to make some key decisions about who to keep and what they can get for 2014 and beyond. In what follows, I lay out some moves that could be made for the short and long term as the Twins try to figure out 2014 and the future. I am starting with top position players first as these guys should be first on the trading block. The big four are: --Josh Willingham (rationale: Arcia) --Justin Morneau (rationale: stop gaps in Colabello and Parmelee, could be re-signed anyway) --Trevor Plouffe (rationale: don't want to part ways, but Sano sticking at third or another stop gap player to fill in here makes Plouffe a good asset to trade) --Ryan Doumit (rationale: Herrmann and Pinto) Relevant playoff contenders with low OPS at these positions: --3B: New York Yankees (.615), Pittsburgh Pirates (.638) --1B: New York Yankees (.696), Tampa Bay Rays (.800, but falling rapidly) --C: Cincinnati Reds (.617), Baltimore Orioles (.634), New York Yankees (.640) --LF: New York Yankees (.660) --DH: Tampa Bay Rays (.682), Baltimore Orioles (.700), New York Yankees (.709). As is clear, the New York Yankees have some holes all over as they deal with a number of injuries and some quickly fading stop-gap players. The Orioles and Rays also appear twice. Finally, two National teams make the list, but I am going to remove the Reds from consideration of Ryan Doumit, because Doumit's value seems to come from his ability to catch and fill in as the designated hitter. Some potential pairings would include: Willingham-Yankees Plouffe-Pirates, Yankees Doumit-Orioles, Yankees Morneau-Rays, Orioles, Yankees I realize that "top prospects" as in top 100 or even 200 overall are going to be off limits in exchange for these guys. But, being someone who analyzes the Twins system and has a "Top 60" list on a regular basis, I find a lot of value in players on individual team lists ranging from 11-30 quite often, especially given the volatility of such lists and the volatility of the grades that even Sickels places on players. So, here are five guys from each of the four teams above who are not on many team top ten lists and often fall between 12 and 20 or lower on such lists. For comparison's sake, in the Twins system this would mean players like Danny Santana, Tyler Duffey, Matt Hauser, Nate Roberts, Niko Goodrum, Danny Ortiz and the like. And several of those players have been on the rise from lower parts of the list over the past few years. New York Yankees: Nik Turley, LHP, starter, 23 (AA/AAA this year) 2013 AA: 4.90 ERA, 64.1 innings, 71/33 K/BB (AAA: 1.50, 1, 6.0, 4/3) Twins system: likely headed to New Britain Bryan Mitchell, LHP, starter, 22 (A+) 2013 A+: 4.74, 76.0, 62/34 Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers Dan Camarena, LHP, starter, 20 (A) 2013 A: 6.34, 49.2, 36/13 Twins system: likely headed to Cedar Rapids Jose Ramirez, RHP, starter, 23 (AA/AAA) 2013 AA: 2.76, 42.1 50/15 (AAA: 4.50, 4.0 5/4) Twins system: likely headed to Rochester Nick Goody, RHP, reliever, 21 (A+) 2013 A+: 3.00, 3.0 3/2. 2012 A: 1.09, 24.2, 40/7) Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers Baltimore Orioles: Tim Berry, LHP, starter, 22 (A+) 2013 A+: 4.54, 69.1, 66/17 Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers Zach Davies, RHP, starter, 20 (A+) 2013 A+: 3.63, 74.1, 58/19 Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers. Devin Jones, RHP, starter, 22 (AA) 2013 AA: 4.84, 67.0, 58/20 Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers Josh Hader, LHP, starter, 19 (A) 2013 A: 1.94, 60.1, 56/30 Twins system: likely head to Cedar Rapids. Torsten Boss, LH, 3B, 22 (A) 2013 A: 221, .251/.333/.405 (.738), 11/2/5, 23/49, 2-3 Twins system: likely headed to Cedar Rapids. Tampa Bay Rays: Tyler Goeddel, RH, 3B/SS, 20 (A) 2013 A: 239, .252/.345/.398 (.743), 6/6/4, 28/41, 13-17 Twins system: likely head to Cedar Rapids Brandon Martin, RH, SS, 19 (A) 2013 A: 50, .244/.280/.422 (.702), 2/0/2, 2/10, 0-1 Twins system: likely headed to Cedar Rapids Felipe Rivero, LH, starter, 21, (A+) 2013 A+: 3.28, 61.1, 53/24 Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers Jeff Ames, RHP, starter, 22 (A) 2013 A: 2.47, 58.1 42/10 Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers Jake Hager, SS, 20 (A+) 2013 A+: 242, .290/.344/.353, 10/2/0, 18/36, 9-16 Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers. Pittsburgh Pirates: Vic Black, RHP, reliever, 25 (AAA) 2013 AAA: 2.62, 24.0, 33/11 Twins system: likely headed to Rochester Nick Kingham, RHP, starter, 21 (A+/AA) 2013 A+: 3.09, 70, 75/14 Twins system: likely headed to New Britain Adrian Sampson, RHP, starter, 21 (A+) 2013 A+: 5.56, 66.1, 37/12 (2012 numbers in A ball included a 9.3/9 K rate) Twins system: likely headed to Fort Myers Max Moroff, SH, SS, 20 (A) 2013 A: 248, .228/.350/.351 (.701), 9/1/5, 39/40, 4-9 Twins system: likely headed to Cedar Rapids Alex Dickerson, LH, 1B/RF, 23 (AA) 2013 AA: 216, .238/.285/.417 (.702) 17/2/5, 13/51, 3-5 Twins system: likely headed to New Britain There are 20 players of varying worth and perfomance, but I think the Twins should mostly focus on pitching. Would I trade all four? Likely, yes. The return that would be nice is a couple of starting pitchers, one reliever, and one infielder. Regardless, I think this casts some reality over the trade outlook for these players. That reality is not bleak by any means.

I am examining this possibility right now. None of these Twin players are going to bring back "top prospects" in the "top 100" sense. But that hardly matters. Getting good value back is all that is needed.

Letting Willingham just walk away after next year would be a mistake. There are going to be teams interested in him at the deadline (see New York Yankees, and maybe the Rangers, Reds, and Orioles) and the Twins should try to get whatever they can. There is zero long-term possibility for him and 2014 should really be left to the youth movement.

By the way, they can trade Morneau and then sign him if they want to in the offseason.

Oops, sorry Chopper. I didn't see that you had a more detailed argument elsewhere. I will respond to it there then.