DocBauer

Overall I like your plan. We could go back and forth and around and around...as could we all, and have...on the 40 man roster, but I'm leaving that part alone, if for no other reason than trades haven't happened yet anyway. But there are a couple points in your plan I'd like to hit kn: * I completely agree on signing a quality veteran 4th OF. I've been advocating this more some time now. Said FA provides depth, insurance in case of injury or demotion by anyone to get straightened out, and if a RH bat, helps balance he LH bats of Kepler and Rosario. Further, it doesn't force Grossman to be the 4th OF, and let's guys like Palka and Granite play every day in Rochester where they belong to begin 2017. *I also agree on a veteran closer type, possibly on the bounce back. It helps stabilize the bullpen, doesn't force someone like Chargois to assume the role immediately, and may provide another mid season flip candidate. However, if it's someone like Storen, and he finds himself, he's young enough to even be considered as a re-sign. I don't know that I'd keep Kintzler ND said FA though. Kintzler may be useful, but with only many young arms needing opportunity, I think I'd let him go. *I don't agree on Vielma as the utility guy. Regardless if the Twins go get a quality glove man to play SS for the next year or two until Gordon is ready, (possibly Vielma), they will need a more proven player to finish the infield. * I think I keep Santiago at this point. He's not great, but is solid, not yet 30, gives us a possible LHSP, and especially if we do find a taker for Santana, we're getting stretched thin in the rotation without him. And you always need more thann5 starters during a season. If someone gets hurt elsewhere, early or later, he's another flip candidate.

Not going to disagree...but in the long run...I still think Romero, and maybe Thorpe, are the two best pitching prospects in the organization overall, despite my faith and belief in Gonsalves. I'd really, really like to keep Romero.

If our return was a top ML SP prospect with the upside we need/want...ready or maybe even got his feet wet this season, or available because said team had another such player ready to move up and take the spot of another highly talented and high upside SP already up...plus another quality arm, I'd gladly include another quality prospect back. But the question remains, WHO? I know it sounds strange for a team in real need for pitching to trade pitching, but what about Stewart or Jorge? Considering his youth and what he did in high A last season, I'm back on the Stewart bandwagon and think he could still really be good. He's just not rocketing through the system...young and only concentrating solely on baseball for a few years now...the way we dreamed he would. I'm almost afraid to ,etc him go. Jorge is solid, has a lower ceiling than a few other arms in the system, but has a chance to be pretty good. and they've both already arrived at AA. If the Twins could acquire the top young arms we are talking about, and another high caliber high A type prospect, I think you'd have to be ready to include a prospect like one of these guys.

The conflict is worth vs value. Dozier is a solid defensive 2B who is sometimes excellent. I know one site claims he's below average defensively, while another rates him above average defensively. (This has been discussed previously, I am at a loss for the moment which site ranked him which way) Sure he misses a few balls and makes a few errors. What infielder doesn't? But I know what my eye sees, and he's at least sold, average. Combined with his bat...a bat I feel didn't just get super hot for months on end in 2016 but actually improved...he's amongst the best and most productive 2B in all ML ball. Even with some inconsistency, overall, he rakes at his position. He is WORTH a top young SP who is ready, or maybe even got his feet wet this season, plus another top 100 prospect. However, its his VALUE to another team, or two, that is the crux of the matter. There are quite a few teams out there, quite a few lineups, that would absolutely improve with Dozier on/in them. Being an infielder, except for an elite hitter, his bat is worth more than most OF, I would think. He's also not old, seldom been injured except for nicks and bruises, cost controlled for the next 2 seasons, and again, not exactly old when the 2 years is up. And his value s undoubtedly tied to a team out there that can afford to move a couple quality, high potential arms to acquire him without sacrificing their own rotation, OR, who could afford to move a high quality young arms because they have that top prospect ready to move up and take that spot in the rotation. The Dodgers still make a lot of sense to me, but I'm sure there are others. I'm really hoping this new FO team can target the right team and the right return. We're giving up a really, really good ballplayer here, and the return should coincide.

I wonder, considering what the team needs, and Dozier being such a valuable, potentially, trade chip, would we, or should we, be upset or surprised if the new FO that will be running things decides not to trade him?

The biggest key to the whole puzzle is still probably Dozier. If he's still with the Twins, you have to make room for Polanco somewhere. If it's 3B, then Sano has to move to 1B/DH. Could you move Dozier to 3B or 1B? I'm not sure either would be awful. If Dozier is traded for pitching help, obviously you slot Polanco in at 2B. So BD is a huge offseason chip in the defensive lineup of the next Twins team. And unless the new FO feels Polanco deserves a chance at SS, your next call is to give Escobar the job coming off a down and injured season and find someone to be the utility guy. I like Escobar a lot, but do you and the Twins feel comfortable with this scenario? Or is it better to bring in a proven SS, even for the short term, and use Escobar as a valuable and versatile utility guy who probably plays quite a bit? I like the OF as is, with someone to be a quality 4th guy.

The biggest key to the whole puzzle is still probably Dozier. If he's still with the Twins, you have to make room for Polanco somewhere. If it's 3B, then Sano has to move to 1B/DH. Could you move Dozier to 3B or 1B? I'm not sure either would be awful. If Dozier is traded for pitching help, obviously you slot Polanco in at 2B. So BD is a huge offseason chip in the defensive lineup of the next Twins team. And unless the new FO feels Polanco deserves a chance at SS, your next call is to give Escobar the job coming off a down and injured season and find someone to be the utility guy. I like Escobar a lot, but do you and the Twins feel comfortable with this scenario? Or is it better to bring in a proven SS, even for the short term, and use Escobar as a valuable and versatile utility guy who probably plays quite a bit? I like the OF as is, with someone to be a quality 4th guy.

I don't follow hockey, sorry. And I follow the NBA somewhat casually, though I am a Lakers and Wolves fan. But the Vikings turn around I can comment on, and I have to say I'm very impressed. I think Spielman deserves an aweful lot of credit for what he's done to assemble talent. Especially since he was placed, more or less, fully in charge of his duties after having to initially defer so much. But the single biggest difference in the Vikings has been Zimmer and his coaching staff. Zimmer is proving to be an outstanding coach who has a real grasp of how to game plan, and how to reach and develop his team. Same with the coaches on his Stagg. Yes, there are problems with injuries on kffense, most notably the OL, and this one issue may preclude the Vikings from reaching their ultimate goal this season, though there is a lot of season to be played. The Twins are, I believe, finally on the right track with the rebuild of the FO and the rise of all the young talent on the roster, most of the names you mentioned above. I know we're all sick of the word "patience" due to the losing seasons and waiting for what seems like ages for all these prospects we've been reading and hearing about to arrive. But going forward, this newly assembled FO, the kids who have arrived, and others really closs, is a different team than the ones who lost 90+ games before 2015. While not 2r or under, the names Duffey, Rosario and Chargois old be added to the list of talented youngsters with a lot of baseball still ahead of them. So I hate to be patient, or ask others to be patient, but again, this is a new team and organization moving forward now. And for me, it's a lot easier watching and rooting for my team...even if not in immediate contention...making smart moves and building with prospects rather than losing or treading water with retreats, older prospects and stopgap FA signings.

At the end of the day, I for one don't know enough about Falvey or Levine to make an overly educated guess as to how good of hires they will ultimately turn out to be. But I have to say I am impressed by their resumes to this point, their past duties performed, the fact they are coming from teams that have been doing things right for the past few years, and the fact that each appears open-minded and young enough to remain as such. It appears to me as though the Twins FO is rather deliberately targeting youth and fresh ideas/thinkers, for which I am excited and grateful. Though I am not surprised. Based on various comments made earlier in this past season from Ryan and Pohlad, I felt a change was coming. And I felt, again from Pohlad's comments, that the team was going to think and look outside the box for alternatives. I don't expect overnight miracles, nor should anyone else, but I'm really anxious to see these two guys go to work! Though I suspect, other than a trade of Dozier, possibly Santana, and a small FA signing or two, I think their first real actions will be more behind the scenes and on the milb and scouting side of things.

Between Burdi, Reed, Hildenberger and Melotakis you have to feel pretty optimistic about the future of the pen, along with Chargois. Burdi has a question mark next to his name at this point due to health. But if anyone is due a little favorable luck at this point, it's surely him. Light, Baxendale and even Jones are others who could figure in. I'm still wondering about a veteran or make good comeback younger vet to help on the back end and help stabilize things initially rather than just thrusting Shaggy or someone in the closer role. I also wonder about FA or low cost trade options looking for another Abad type to rebound, or convert from troubled starter to valuable RP.

I'm not going to blow smoke regarding Gibson and say he's a great pitcher who is about to suddenly crank up his game. I will say, however, that I believe he's solid with the potential to still be better. I tend to discount his "rookie" season as it was short and I think he ran out of gas a bit as well. Further, especially considering how shirt it was, it was of a get your feet wet opportunity. In 2014, his first full season, he missed rookie status by, I believe, only 1/3 of an IP. He was solid and showed flashes. He performed better in 2015 before the wheels sort of fell off this year. But there was an injury, the defense was poor, the bullpen often bad, and it was a bad season for the team as a whole. So I don't buy blanket statements that he's pitched 3 bad and 1 solid season. Healthy, possibly with a different pitching coach that he works better with, I wouldn't be surprised to see a much more effective Gibson. Not saying a #2 or #3 SP, I'm saying a solid ML starter.

Part of my problem with the 40 man is I really want to keep all the prospects I can, but I also want to add a couple of guys. Again, there will probably be a trade or two that could free up an extra spot or two, Dozier being the most likely. *I'd really like to add an experienced 4th OF who hits RH, or switch hits, to fill in and provide a better bench, on a short term deal so we don't have to force feed Granite or Palka, or sit them too much, or rely on Grossman to play too often in the field. *If Dozier is indeed gone, we need someone to play SS, or challenge Escobar, or be the utility guy. *I'm still thinking of the best milb FA catcher we can find, another John Hicks type, either signed to the 40 or as an invite on a milb deal. This might determine the Centeno/Turner status. (I wouldn't protect both, and could see protecting neither potentially)

I still like Gibson. I think sometimes he doesn't trust himself enough to just attack the zone. And I think it is. Is this a remnant from the old staff? Could a new pitching coach help with this attitude? But you and I are pretty much spot on with the initial rotation. Some combination of: Santana NEW GUY from Dozier trade Gibson Santiago Berrios May That's 6 for 5 spots, allowing for injury, trade, or move to the pen for now. Wheeler and Duffey are challengers, each could find himself in the pen, particularly Duffey. Wheeler could be the first guy up, potentially. Mejia and Gonsalves could each be ready for a shot as early as June, probably no later than August 1st. Hughes is a dark horse who COULD bounce all the way back, which would be awesome, and be like a mid season acquisition. As crazy at it may sound, the Twins could have pitching to sell at the break.

I had missed this somehow until today. Very happy to hear it. Always thought he might be a quality late bloomer. Personally, I think the Twins initially messed with him a bit by moving him around so much. In the long term, however, it could make him a versatile piece to the future roster.

This in response to diehard, just not going to copy everything. It's already about as long as some of my posts. Lol Excellent pointo made, BTW. *I agree the hitting is pretty much here already. I mean really; Rosario, Buxton Kepler, Sano and Polanco with a hopefully healthy and steady Escobar, and possibly Vargas. Garver is oh so close to at least not making catcher a deep, dark hole. Granite and Palka, possibly Walker, are close. I still like a quality 4th OF on short term and another infielder to help/challenge and I feel pretty good. *I'm going to disagree on Santiago, to a point. He's nothing special, but he's experienced, solid, a lefty, and can fill a role for this team depending on how others shake out. You could cut him loose, keep him, trade him before the season to a team with injuries, (there's always someone) or flip him at the deadline when someone else is ready. If you do move Santana, I keep him. If Santana stays, I'm more open to letting him go in whatever capacity. *Great point on May not getting as much of a shot as Duffey to this point, which is huge. Speaking of Duffey, as I've stated before, I don't discount him evolving in to a quality starter. He now has pretty much the equivalent to one full season as a ML SP. ONE. We've seen tne good and the not so good. But unless everyone is blowing smoke, he's not just a week pitch pitcher and I think we need to stop with this arguement. He throws 2 different fastballs and 2 different curves, and all 4 have different actions and slightly different speeds. I wish i could pull out the reference...I cant...but I read somewhere during the season that his change had improved, but it was his fastball command that he was having difficulty with. The change will never be a priority pitch for him, but it doesn't have to be either. And maybe he will ultimately become a fine RP, but if the FB command comments are accurate, he can't be dismissed as a SP candidate after the "good" we've seen from him. *As I've stated originally, I agree to stay away from the FA market entirely, unless the new FO thinks there is a real steal there. If you move on from Santana AND Santiago, then I could see a short term move. Could the Twins make a big splash in 2018 on the open market? They could. Several contracts will be off the books by then, with only Hughes potentially remaining and Mauer's last season. *Hughes is a dark horse for me. I also don't count on him. But what if he DOES make it all the way back? He's already bought and paid for and could be a June or July "acquisition" type. (Which could be another reason to keep at least one of Santana/Santiago for now) And excellent post. Just some commentary back from me.

And I do not advocate doing nothing. Simply, I see the one big, potential, move of Dozier. I'm saying shop Santana...though I'm really not sure what the market will bear on that end. We still may be better off, gain better value, keeping him in the fold for now. But other than a Dozier trade, I just see any other option as rather self defeating both short and long term. Please no more mediocre FA. I don't think it's the time to bundle a bunch of prospects to make a move either.

Agree on Sano at 3B. I remain convinced that more time and work, possibly a little better conditioning, he can be at least solid there. His arm is excellent, and I've always been surprised how well he seems to charge the ball. The Twins did him no favors, in regard to 3B defense, in their handling of him last season. I don't know that the Twins really need a backup plan at 3B necessarily. I just think someone who COULD play a solid 3B and another position as a bench option would be nice. If Dozier is gone, you need at least one more infielder to be brought in from somewhere to compete with Escobar for the SS/utility spot. Even with 4 OF and a pair at 1B/DH, that leaves a spot open for such a player. I also like the idea of a quality AAAA level 3B, probably another infielder or two as well. Rochester looks a little light in the infield right now.

I generally agree with everything you say Seth. I admit to being torn on Centeno and Turner both. Not overly impressed by Centeno, but a solid LH stick as a reserve catcher is tempting. And I'm not entirely convinced Turner would be selected or kept by a selecting team at this point. Also torn on Grossman. I like him as a 5th OF/DH/PH who could play in the field occassionally. But I don't like him as the 4th OF. I'd rather see the Twins sign someone for that spot and allow Granite, Palka, Walker more time. I also agree on moving on from Plouffe, especially since I think Molitor would feel compelled to play him daily. But I think there is room on the roster for a quality bench guy, and someone mentioned Lawrie as a possibility some time ago. I could get behind a move like that. And while I do think it's time for Plouffe and the Twins to go a different direction, I wouldn't be upset by a 1 year, low cost deal coming off a poor and injury plagued season as a each bat who can play a couple spots and DH.

Well, naturally this whole 40 man thing is premature as there could be a trade or two to come. But simply working with what we have now.... I'd probably keep Light. I haven't seen him pitch yet, and only the Twins, at this point, really know if they have something there or not. But they thought enough of him to trade for him. I think you're forced to keep one of Boshers or O'Rourke, pending any trades or signings, but I don't think you have room for both. I'd lean toward Boshers, would really like to remove both and sign them to milb deals if I could. I wouldn't keep Thorpe. I just don't see how he's a risk to be selected and kept by someone. Still not sure Tonkin has been used correctly, and not sure if we've seen enough of Wimmers to make an accurate decision. I'm all about keeping as many talented young arms as we can, and opening roster spots for them. It's the bubble guys that make this so difficult. You need guys for 2017 who can pitch for you...not just necessarily promote a bunch of rookies...and a couple of these guys could still really help/develop. But you just can't keep them all. Somehow, the Twins have to decide which couple they still see real room for improvement, keep a couple, let go the rest and maybe sign them to deals with an invite. Just no other way to juggle/handle 40 spots and hold on to the risers.

LOL And that's what kills me about posts I read here and there about how the team should be blown up, start over, Buxton is a bust, so are Sano and Rosario and Berios, etc. We ARE in the middle of a "blow up" of the roster. It began last season. Yes, there are still some veterans around, such as Mauer and Santana, and the team is, more or less, stuck with Hughes, which could be a good thing in the long run, and Perkins, who may be done, but Plouffe and Suzuki are probably gone. Now, positionally speaking, we've gotten younger quicker, obviously. Some of that is just the nature of top position players in the Twins system being ready before the pitchers. But to be down on these guys so young, and with so little ML service time is nuts. Rosario and Sano have 788 and 716 official ML at bats and are the most tenured of all the Twins young players. Buxton has a total of 427. When you consider that a healthy, full time starting ML player should have over 500 AB on a season, and 550-600 is not a bit uncommon, you realize how young these guys really are.

We've long heard about the tools and the potential, and we've seen what he could do in the minors. There is no doubt that he disappointed some last season, we all wanted him to come up and be ready from day one. Not necessarily be an all star complete package, but ready to really contribute. But the defense and speed were there, and you could still see the potential at times. You have to remember how young he still is, the fact that he did miss some developmental/experience time, and could argue he was rather aggressively moved along at times. I don't believe his final month was simply a hot SSS. It was an indicator of his true potential once he began to relax and play his game. (Something he himself stated). I believe he may still be a season or two away from being a "finished" product, but I think we'll see a lot more good than bad from Buxton in 2017.

I always felt it was just a matter of time before the athleticism met experience to make a really good ballplayer. At AA in 2015 we saw this start to take shape. But I honestly expected him to play more in AAA last season as part of a natural progression. The fact that he played as well as he did last season, especially a few hot streaks and the power, has done nothing but further convince me of his bright future as a quality all around player. I still believe he's the next great 3 hole hitter for the Twins.

Based on his defensive reputation, solid milb numbers, and his numbers in NY, I get why the Twins went after Murphy, a young catcher with upside needing an opportunity. Of all the crazy and disappointing things that happened to the Twins in this past season, I'm still not sure I don't rank him as the largest disappointment. But the whole 40 man roster debate about Garver is ridiculous. He has to be added to the 40 man this off season anyway, so there was no good reason not to make room for him for at least a taste of ML life. More and more, I keep hoping he will do a great job in the AFL and force the new Twins FO to just run with him.

2014 and 2015 I was impressed with Escobar. Very solid in the field and surprising at the plate. My thought/hope was he would be the same player in 2016, as long as he didn't get worn out being the everyday guy from day 1. But, we all know what happened, injuries, the emergence of Nunez, etc. I'd love to bank on him for next year. And maybe I'm not being fair to him after arguing for so long he should be the starter, but I find myself drawn to the idea of using him as a utility now and acquiring a top flight defensive veteran. But at worst, if Dozier is gone, we do need someone else brought on board for depth. What I wonder about, in regard to Gordon, is if weight not see an offensive explosion of sorts put of him this season due to maturity and leaving the FSL. Haven't we always heard it was a tough hitters league?

OK...I know I'm going to get blasted for this idea, and I'll probably be accused of trolling even...but I'm really sane and serious about this thought as its been rolling over and over in my mind lately. First, let me state I am NOT advocating the Twins do nothing. While I would prefer to keep Dozier's bat with the Twins in some capacity, I am on board now with finding the right deal with the right team for a top shelf, young, still controllable SP. Who that should be, and which team offers the best match, is obviously up for some debate, and has been here on TD. But other than that big move, I'm going to argue the Twins stay mostly pat SP-wise the remainder of the offseason. And I have reasons that I believe are practical. 1] We have a new head of baseball operations in Falvey who has yet to hire a GM, but it would seem to me some of their biggest initial priorities are to examine the Twins coaching staff, and IMO, bring in a more experienced pitching coach that they feel comfortable with to work with the more established AND the young pitchers. Further, I firmly believe they will be implementing changes in development of said young pitchers in the Twins milb system. For a rebuilding team, this is pertinent stuff. 2] The FA market for SP is just not good at all. And unless there is someone Falvey or his new GM believes is a real steal, you're just throwing good money after bad and repeating the recent Ryan cycle of mediocre veteran FA pitchers. 3] Further, not only does Falvey and any new personel need time to implement changes as a priority, and need time to evaluate young talent on its way up...some of them close...but any new changes and said new pitching coach could allow for at least some immediate improvement, if not more, with what is already on hand. And the idea of trading or dumping Santana and/or Santiago immediately could leave the rotation short of just about anything other than the Albers and Deans of the world, and we've seen enough of that. (Again with the poor FA crop) 4] Young talent. Personally, I believe we have yet to see the best of Gibson. We've seen flashes, and with his missed time due to injury, we lost a full season of his career. But healthy, we've seen glimpses of a very solid SP. Berrios has a tremendous milb track history and has been a top 100 prospect for a couple years now. He needs to pitch at the ML level, preferably with a coach who relates and communicates well. May can and should move back to the rotation. Despite a waste of a full year of time in the pen, a healthy May has shown ability as a SP. Duffey has been inconsistent as can be this year, but showed glimpses of the pitcher we saw last year. Maybe he's best in the bullpen, but from what I have garnered this season, his biggest problem was not a still developing change but fastball control. There is a real chance that both Gonsalves and Mejia could be ready at some point in 2017, and projections for mid-season or sooner are not out of line. And there at least 4 other young prospects who could/should see Rochester at some point in '17 with some solid potential. I am not going to include the addition of Hughes as a "point" in this discussion, and will refer to him later, but he is a potential dark horse candidate for the roster. Our new, young, OF should provide some very good defense. Polanco to 2B should be a wash at worst vs Dozier defensively. Sano, healthy, a couple pounds lighter, and actually getting to concentrate on 3B should allow for some improvement there. (I'm a big believer in letting him play and develop instead of just deciding he's bad). A quality SS acquisition to compete with and possibly replace Escobar further sets and probably improves the infield defense. In this scenario, preferably with a new, experienced and respected pitching coach, the Twins would enter ST with the following SP candidates: Santana Gibson Santiago NEW GUY from Dozier trade Berrios May Wheeler (finally getting some kind of shot) Duffey (better FB control and continuing to develop change) Mejia (inexperienced enough to maybe need some AAA time) Gonsalves (milb pitcher of year and building experience in the AFL, *see Mejia) Hughes (BIG question mark, could end up in pen, could make it all the way back) By the end of 2017, there is a good chance that at least one of Jay, Romero, Stewart or Jorge could be ready for an audition, along with the aforementioned Gonsalves and Mejia. So in short, you bring in one top new SP via a Dozier trade, you bring in a new pitching coach, you have a mix of younger SP pitching candidates mixed with a couple under 30 veterans and one older veteran, plus a dark horse candidate. You implement changes, have promotional options at some point that could lead to trade options, have prospects developing for 2018 and beyond, and probably have a lot better FA class available to you before the 2018 season. So there you have it, some thought by me. One big move, a new coach, and then stay pat. Let me have it!