DocBauer

I've got to say, and it's just a hunch and no condemnation to Turner or his potential, but I also have had a feeling that Garver would be the best overall player of the two and become the starter.

No matter how terrible, disappointing or gut - wrenching this season has been, I still keep envisioning an Aug. 1st lineup with Buxton in CF, Kepler in RF, Sano at 3B, Arcia/Rosario in LF, Polanco in the middle infield, Murphy as the primary C after his AAA success and promotion, and Berrios starting the game.

I agree 100%. And part of that process is to let guys like Buxton and Kepler every single game and AB they can at Rochester. It's also the reason I wasn't too upset by the Mastroianni promotion. It's not the option I'd like to have, and I don't think I'd be starting him, but, I'd rather him in the short term. But the other part of making this happen is opportunity. And that comes from doing things differently than before. We can lament all we want about past business, or this offseason...and with good reason in some instances. ..but whats important is how business is done going forward. Some of the recent options and waiver wire moved allow for said change. Will it be maintained? It has to for the team to move forward. That's going to mean a few tradex, the eating or partial eating of some contracts, and possibly the inclusion of some lower level prospects as well. But it's the only way you make room for Berrios and Duffey, or May, etc., plus maybe acquire another C or RP. BTW...I still want May in the rotation as well. But the way things are set up at the moment, Meyer off to a good start and minting it is probably the more likely option.

I don't get the whole Herrmann for Palka deal. Palka is no baby, but he's also not old or some milb journeyman. It appears he can hit, hit with power, and run some too. And he's traded for an athletic backup catcher who just never seemed to get over the hump?

Agree it's a very well thought out point of view. But I also disagree on Murphy. He's talented enough and young enough that I don't think he should be so easily dismissed. I don't think he's been handled right. (Surprise!) How do you trade for a young catcher and then not play him? Suzuki is not part of the future, offers no potential, and is almost certainly gone after this year. Does he really offer so much for a struggling team that he has to play daily over Murphy? Despite no obvious option at AAA, thank you TR for that, I'd rather see Murphy play every day at Rochester for a time to find himself again. Play him or help him! Keep starting Berrios and Duffey. Move Nolasco for SOMETHING, even if you trade money and a low level prospect to do so. Make room! Fien and Milone is a good first start. If you can't find a market for Plouffe, or Plouffe and a prospect, then give him, and Mauer and Park, an OF glove and find someone who can play a less than horrible RF so Sano can concentrate on 3B primarily. Whether he ever turns in to a good/great 3B is irrelevant. He's solid there. Repeating myself, lose Nolasco to make room, and by mid season at the latest, prepare to run with Buxton, Kepler, Polanco, maybe Meyer, and a couple young RP like Chargois and maybe even Boshers. (?) There is a nucleus in place. Build on it!

Looking past my disappointment, bordering on disgust at this point that we didn't either acquire another strong arm for the pen last year, or this off season, whereby May could stick in the rotation, at this point he should get a shot to close. He has the best stuff and potential in the pen at this point. Maybe he isn't built for it and won't embrace it, but at this point, really, what do you have to lose? Let's either admit the mistake of removing a potentially solid SP arm from the rotation and send him down to stretch out as we remove Milone, and potentially/eventually Nolasco and...fingers crossed somebody else named Hughes or Santana, (unless Hughes goes to the pen )...or let him audition for the closer job.

The top five starting pitchers? ☺

Yes it was. His first couple of starts, as I recall, weren't very impressive, though his last couple were much better. And he followed it up next season with a few so-so starts before getting better and better before he got moved to the pen since we had nobody else. (UGH!) Gibson also didn't look very good initially. Then he had a pretty solid "rookie" season the next year. And an even better 2015. Berrios's first start was pretty mediocre. And guess what? He was better in his second start and actually got his first ML win. Viola was average at best to start his career. Johan Santana was a rule 5 stash player and bullpen option initially before he finally won a full time SP gig. Just saying.

Nice comments on Centeno. He did show flashes in ST. He is off to a solid start in Rochester. And he may be able to contribute at some point as he is now the Twins 3rd catcher, probably. But I don't think it divides the handling and loss of Hicks. I really wasn't sure what to expect from Park. In truth, I don't think anyone did. But we were all hopeful. There will be streaks I'm sure. But I've been impressed. I think he belongs and has been mostly impressive.

Chief, I agree he'll warrant another shot. I'd even bet on it. So I agree with you there. But I am going to respectfully disagree, for now, on Meyer's future. Really, any young pitcher will struggle with his stuff and command at various points. That's why the grow, learn and advance through the minors. And the simple truth is, longer, taller pitchers have seemingly always had a bit more of a struggle finding proper repitition. Despite a few lapses in control, Meyer made steady progress in his milb career, was considered a top 100 prospect just as recently as the conclusion of the 2014 season. And we all remember the raging debates as the Twins handling of him the second half, and late, in that season. The arguements raged back and forth from the Twins stating he needed to tweak his control a bit more, and the other side of the equation that he was ready and needed ML service time to continue to grow and develop. I am NOT rehashing this old arguement, just stating how highly he was regarded a year ago. Ish. Distracted, hurt, disappointed, grieving, whatever the issue (s) Meyer had a rough and very disappointing 2015, (despite a few solid stretches in the pen). Fast forward to this new year in which he got off to a strong start at Rochester, SSS or not, before coming up...then sitting on the bench when he probably could have gotten at least one more AAA start...before getting his first ML start, with splinters in his backside, and getting pulled with 2 outs when the Twins said he wasn't on any pitch count. He is not the first top prospect to have a disappointing season. He wouldn't be the first top prospect to learn, grow and rebound from such an experience. And I hope he does. And I hope he doesn't take this p**s poor handling recently in a negative fashion. I hope, if anything, it helps light a stronger fire under him. But with his previous track record, his ability and potential, his solid start to 2016, I simply can't view him as a RP candidate at this point.

That might be me you are referring to. And I think it's an important point. I'm not saying empty the minor leagues and just promote everyone. I think the time for an Astros-like move to do so, or what the Twins did in '82, is gone at this point. Part of the young nucleus has already arrived, and been arriving, for a couple of years now. But a 40 man roster doesn't mean you get to promote all your top prospects, while keeping your veterans, and suddenly get to play with a 40 man roster. Berrios is ready. Duffey too is probably ready, despite his rough ST. Meyer, hopefully, will take this latest cup of coffee as a learning experience, be even more determined to get back, and continue at Rochester where he left off. You arent, and cant, run with a 7 or 8 man rotation. So moves to the pen, eating some contract money, sweetening a trade with another player, whatever, you are going to have move out today for tomorrow.

Pretty much this. I did a nicely responded to, but somewhat quickly faded post referencing "blowing up" the roster, and when it should take place this season. And I feel we're making a lot of the same points again on here. Points that seem simplistic in the rather obviousness of their nature. If the team is not going to contend...and right now we're not even overly confident about a winning record...then the FO needs to make room for the future of this team. Nolasco and Milone, for example, are NOT part of the future of this team. It's not personal, it's just a fact. And at this point, or at some point this season, Meyer, Duffey and Berrios, for instance, will be pounding on and kicking in the door that they are ready, (or ready again) for their opportunity. Whether it means taking back a lower level, marginal prospect, throwing in some of the remaining contract dollars or something similar, guys have to be moved. You can't build up a milb system that is one of the best in baseball, keep them, (as in not trade them), and just never promote them.

Outstanding nytwinsfan! Look, with Santana healthy and ready to come back, OK, I don't like it but I get it, time to send Meyer down. But like NY says, "why?" Who is he really blocking for our future? Why was he brought up to collect splinters for days on end before his relief appearance? Why was he pulled after settling down and getting 2 outs in the third, especially when they said he wasn't on a specific pitch limit? Maybe he gets shelled. Maybe he gets the 3rd out, then has a solid 4,5, maybe even 6th inning. But we'll never know now will we. You don't want 3 youngsters like Meyer, Berrios and Duffey all starting at once? OK, say that, send one down for now, start the other two. But stop the yo-yo garbage.

There is a sick, borderline desperate part of me that wants to see injuries linger a bit longer, (while wishing no-one actual harm), so that Berrios, Duffey and Meyer can all make multiple starts. Does this make me a bad person/fan?

I can not like this initial post enough! EPIC! But two comments: 1} I was smart drunken-still wise enough to refuse the dare in the same situation. "So I got that going for me." 2} Dude, the cassette deck era is OVER. Kid probably did you a favor by stealing your car stereo and making you go by a CD deck.

Darnell is a bit of an enigma at this point. He had a really fine 2014 at Rochester, and while K king, he did garner a few SO's. I thought we might have a function 5th SP who could end up being a nice long-middle man who could spot start. But then he had a pretty rough 2015 before a late season rally that earned him a September promotion. Unfortunate, he got very ill and couldn't play. After a solid ST, despite low K totals thus far, he's off to a quality start in 2016. I'm not saying he has monster stuff, but I'm still wondering if there is a viable LH arm for a bullpen there.

A really nice write-up SD. Thank you! I know that at the end of the day milb is more about player development than winning. And you don't exactly get to pick and choose your roster like you do at the ML because you have to play your young prospects, but I'm impressed with Mauer as a manager, and the various coaches the Twins employee in milb. I know you to draft and sign smart, and it sure seems that the Twins have been doing a great job of that the past few years, but you have to have coaches and managers to teach and develop that talent. I really think the entire Twins milb system is doing a great job of that.

Like you, I have often defended Ryan's moves. I don't grade him poorly for the Twins not winning or advancing to the WS back in his first tenure. IMO, in any sport, your goal is to field a winning team that can reach the post season. I believe it is short-sighted and down right incorrect to say you build a championship team. Unless you possess a fully functional crystal ball, that's impossible to do. I also don't feel Ryan has been incompetent in his second tenure. I still support the May and Meyer trades. He's adequate other moves that aren't bad, and the minor league system has thrived under his watch, and are begining to pay dividends at the ML level. I can't even blame him for most of the veteran FA SP conundrum where the Twins are seemingly locked in to some contracts that block youngsters. Hughes should absolutely not been extended when he was, but his initial signing, plus Santana, and even Nolasco, unto themselves, we're not bad acquisitions. But I have to say, despite past success and being a good baseball man and a good guy, there have been moves, and non moves, the past few seasons that really have me questioning him as the leader of the organization at this point. Have there been a few injuries that have thrown some of the rebuild in to chaos? Yes. But injuries happen, and we all know this. For three straight seasons the Twins have been nothing but patchwork in CF. How can you possibly count on Hicks and Buxton jumping from AA for three straight seasons as the answer with little to nothing available for a backup plan? The exact same thing applies to the bullpen the past two years. And then the whole, inexplicable Murphy signing and Hicks fiasco, along with a two man bench for a few games. What will define, possibly save, Ryan is what he does the rest of this season. If you are going to build with youth, horde said youth, sooner or later, as that youth matures, you have to make room for it. And you do that youth a disservice by promoting it to just sit on the bench and not play. Unless this team goes on a real run at some point, and looks like a real contender, at some point you absolutely have to look at eating some or all of a contract, throw another young player in a deal if you have to, and look at Plouffe, Dozier, Perkins, Hughes, E Santana, Nolasco and Milone as moveable options to make way for youth.

Wondering, while this is the majors, not the minors, and it's about results and much less about player development, until or unless a trade is made at some point, would the Twins consider a 6 man rotation at some point? I may be mistaken, but the way it's done in milb, particularly with the Kernals, don't they rotate the starters every few potential starts to a few days in the pen before starting again? This would mean you could keep a 12 man staff, while allowing Meyer, Duffey and Berrios to stay up, keep starting most of the time, while still working in the veteran starters. Now, everyone healthy there are still too many starters, but it's a thought.

One of the things I like most about Berrios is his pitching instincts. Yes he has good stuff. Yes he has a great work ethic. Yes he has a determined, bulldog mentality. But if you recall his first few starts at Rochester last season, he didn't have great results. In an interview, after about his second or third start, he made comments regarding needing to change some things in his approach. He then went out and killed it the rest of the year.

Now this is some exciting stuff!

Frankly, this is a conundrum the Twins shouldn't be facing. How a professional organization couldn't plan even a bit better in regard to their roster management is beyond me. I know the Santana/Duffey situation is rather unexpected, but to make Polanco, Buxton and Kepler all unavailable is mystifying. There is certainly an arguement for Beresford and his tenure with the organization, the fact he probably more than deserved a shot last September, and positional flexability. But, with Santana back, available to play all over, and Plouffe reportedly back soon, and with more questions in the OF, I'd pick Mastroianni. He's nothing special overall, to be sure. But he plays good defense, including CF. He's sort of a known quantity. He had a good ST and is still getting OB, despite a poor BA at Rochester. He would be the most intelligent choice at this point. Either him, or you make a DL move to allow he and Polanco both to come up.

This game with Cleveland is just killing me right now. I feel there were several veteran options, none of them overly exlensive, out there this past off season that wouled be great fits for the Twins to provide depth, match up options, and options so Buxton and Kepler wouldn't have to be forced to the ML level so soon. Byrd and Davis were two of the guys I really liked. While not a perfect solution, doesn't the OF look better right now with Byrd playing/alternating in the corners and Davis in CF while Buxton and Kepler get some much needed AAA time? Of course, I also thought, as before and elsewhere stated, that Plouffe-Sano-Mauer sharing 3B-DH-1B was a great idea as well.

And the jury is still out on Murphy. Opportunity and a bad start shouldn't condemn him or the trade for him. But the Hicks signing was a solid, cheap move for a solid, fairly young catcher, with at least better than horrible offense. In fact, right now, without even the necessity for a 3rd catcher due to injury, it could be argued Hicks should be brought up, Murphy demoted, in order for Murphy to see daily play and AB for a week or two to get in a groove. OOPS...can't do that now.

Can't and won't dispute this at all! But my arguement was, as just mentioned in another thread, it seemed to incredibly obvious to me that the smart moves were to acquire a decent, solid RH OF to play a corner role with Arcia and Rosario, as well as a decent 4thOF/CF option in case Buxton wasn't ready. This would have allowed various match up scenarios and bench depth. If you did move Rosario to CF for now, you'd still have at least a potentially decent OF.