Jham

Seriously, what has Shane Robinson done wrong this year? I can see the frustration with Suzuki and before him Santana, but Robinson has gone about his business and performed admirably as a utility outfielder, IMO. What indication has Buxton shown that he's ready for the Major Leagues? When was the last time he dominated at the minor league level to the extent a top prospect should dominate? Others say Kepler's bat is already more advanced than Buxton. To expect him to come up and be better than Hunter right off an injury is unlikely at best. Let's see how his recovery goes. I personally don't have a problem with the pay. Perhaps this is a little organizational message to him about being smart and taking care of his money makers. He can really go get it, but if his hands and wrists go, he's useless.

Decent time to get may stretched out. ..

Bunt? Indians love their pitcher, respect pelfrey, or not respect our offense. I'll say the last one.

Aside from getting one of the very best in the game, if this trade highlighted anything, it's that you can overpay for a player in his prime and then trade him for an even better player if you're willing to take the chances. People forget that quality free agent or trade acquisitions can be traded if necessary, as long as you're willing to eat some celery, er... salary. You know unless they get injured bad or are Joe Mauer. Also, getting the best of the best always requires overpaying. You can go through your whole life drinking Jack Daniels and Kendall Jackson because the difference between a $200 bottle and $25 bottle might not be $175 worth. Or a Perkin's steak vs. a Manny's steak. That's fine, but then you'll die having never had a great wine or a perfect steak.

How far down prospect lists do you guys think Buxton falls after another injury and wasted half season? I think is fair to wonder what toll the injuries are having on his body, let alone his development.

I'll disagree on the "wait and see" premise with prospects because I believe, right or wrong, that we have an advantage over every other team in baseball when it comes to evaluating our own talent. We see who has the work ethic, attitude, and general health to make it. We know who stays out too late, who won't stop eating, who won't quit drinking, who won't take coaching, and perhaps those who are an injury waiting to happen. If we "wait to see" if they succeed in the big leagues, we lose much of that advantage. Teams and fans alike can see what kind of player you have by watching Sportscenter. There were many Twinsdaily posters who were looking at Meyer the last couple years and hinted that he might be overrated by national prospect lists. I remember being shocked when I actually saw Delmon Young play, because he in no way looked like the number 1 prospect in the game. The Rays had to have seen that. We couldn't look past some sweet stats. Not that the eye test is the best way to access a player, but it's clear all of baseball viewed Delmon in higher regard than he probably deserved. Regarding standing pat, I do not see the team improving a ton internally. Our biggest holes in the bigs are our biggest holes in the minors. We don't have a true ace. We don't have any lights out bull pen guys (Tonkin and Achter are NOT major league difference makers), we have no high-end shortstop, and we have no catcher of the future. We can try to trade for one, but then why not trade now when they can help with a playoff run vs. trading after the season? This leaves free agency, the Twins had better be very active in this regard next year. And be ready to sell high on some guys before the deadline next year.

Bone... Donaldson... Robinson has been serviceable this year. I'm not going to knock his contributions. Arcia should probably be up to start for Hunter though.

82 pitches through 4 innings? Plus fifteen pick-off attempts with Revere at the plate... Why do we start Robinson against Iwakuma, and Rosario against Price again?

Awesome...

Disappointing AB from Rosario. Walks Hunter with 4 straight out of the zone. Rosario gets 3 balls out of the zone and swings at 2 of them.

With a guy who just failed to get a bunt down... yesterday... I mean, Santana gets that bunt down, right DaveW? Also, yeah, swing away guys. Let's play with a little swagger and confidence.

We traded who?

Mike, I was just pointing out that there was another guy (out of options) who wasn't traded (yet) who might be in the mix. That should be a consideration. Also, there is a currently still productive veteran (Hunter) who may want to return and who would be more likely to return if plan A included only unproven or mostly unproven outfielders. I know you hate the thought of re-signing Hunter, so it's fair that you would want as many young guys as possible to alleviate the risk of dismal failure by one or several. Veteran outfielders can be found in FA. I don't see the point in having Kepler AND Buxton as untouchables when we have to do something with Arcia (who may be as good or better) and Hicks who many are also saying is a keeper and Rosario on top of that. Sorry if I chimed in on your discussion with Linus in a confusing fashion.

I don't know if Thrylos compared Kepler and Arcia's relative current value so much as pointing out that including him in the conversations with the Buxtons and Sanos as an untouchable may be a bit over-the-top. Kepler's had a huge year. Is it repeatable moving up the class ladder? Perhaps the most apt comparison for this thread between Arcia and Kepler would be thus: What could we have gotten for Arcia 2 years ago. What about now? I don't want Kepler to go back and be average and have missed on Lucroy or Kimbrel or an impact guy because we over-valued our hand.

If we traded one of the future outfielders we would pretty much HAVE to re-sign Hunter or a similar short-range insurance policy in the outfield. To the delight of the Pohlads. I'm not sure how Kepler's career has been so different from Joe Benson's. And it's almost certainly worse than the forgotten man, Ozzie Arcia. If I had to bet on who was more likely to be an impact major-leaguer, Kepler or Arcia, I'd pick Arcia. Kepler certainly doesn't seem to be drawing a ton of interest from other organizations...

Well did the Royals luck out that Myers didn't develop into a star, or did they perhaps not have him rated as a top 5 prospect like others? I like to think of the Delmon trade as perfect example. He was one of the biggest prospects in the game. But I suppose if you really looked hard at stats and actually watched him play (eye test), you'd see that he was... unconventional. Probably same thing with Alex Meyer. Smart GM's can take advantage of the fact that prospect lists are typically slow to change because talent evaluators, other GM's, and forum posters alike, all hate to admit they were wrong.

I think this deal like this should be taken seriously. I wouldn't bet money that May or Berrios will be better than Shields over the next three years. I would bet money that Nolasco would be in the rotation next year regardless of what May and Berrios do in spring training. Look at the rest of the rotation. We had sure better be in win-now mode next season. Hu, Gonsalves, Thorpe, Berrios, Meyer, Jay, Stewart, Rogers, Slegers... We have arms. I'm happy to trade some of them to help the team win now and avoid the inevitable TwinsDaily '17 debate about Hu and Jay being blocked by an aging Hughes and Santana.

Prospects' value as trade pieces also go up and down. IMO, the Twins front office has been either a) poor at evaluating talent; poor at maximizing and nurturing talent; or c) too stubborn or passive in acting on a or b. If we're evaluating and nurturing talent correctly, we should have a great idea as to who may or may not be expendable. At least I hope we know our own prospects better than other teams. Looking back at our failed prospects. Almost all of them came with sneaking suspicions of over-hype long before their value started to plummet. Prospect rankings are often slow-to-react. We've had lots of coveted players and prospects who we held until their trade value was virtually gone. We've traded virtually no one at the peak of their value. Gordon Gekko would say the Twins do a good job of buying low, but a pretty poor job at selling high. What in-house prospects might people be overvaluing?

Oh I agree on not giving up on him, since we already have him. I'm saying if I was another team, I wouldn't bet on it in terms of trading for him. If I'm the Twins I don't bet on it by counting on him. Personally, I think he's taken a big step forward. However, his defense is a bit shaky at times and unless he starts hitting for a ton of power, his bat is sub-par. Will his power improve? Coin flip?

If we're dealing Rosario, it may behoove us to get him a few games at 2nd or 3rd to increase his value to teams needing a 2B or super-utility Zobrist kind of player. His bat profiles more of 2B than a corner. I can't imagine Hicks having much value on the trade market. He's having a career year right now, which is essentially Dozier with 1/4 the power. On the other hand, if the rest of baseball still sees him as an elite defender (certainly not) and 5-tool prospect (neither the tools nor "prospect" really fit) then we should deal him before they really look at it.

Berrios and Rogers are the only ones I see as potential upgrades from even Fien and Boyer. My thought is that Duensing AND Fien both rushed back from their injuries. Fien needs to go back to the DL. Boyer is simply overworked. He wasn't even in baseball last year, no? Duensing is fine with the exception that Rogers might be slightly better... maybe. Big risk to take when Duensing is pitching well and has experience, including playoff experience. Berrios has taken time to adjust every time he's jumped a level. Presumably he'll be a better pitcher than Fien and Boyer. But I wouldn't bet that he is right now. I haven't watched Duffy pitch enough to say whether he's an upgrade, but based on his initial struggles with AAA, I would guess probably not. Dominating guys who aren't good enough to bat 7, 8, 9 in a major league line-up doesn't do a ton for me. Now Clippard on the other hand... I'm not against going to an 8 man pen at this point to try to keep arms fresh and give new guys a shot.

We traded for Scott Diamond in March. We're approaching the 2/3rds mark of the season. Braves should take what they can get at this point. If not, I agree, Graham still offers some utility in the pen, no more or less than Tonkin I'd imagine.

What would Jimmy Rollins cost as a comparison? I also feel like we're giving up on esco, and santana too for that matter, when both are probably due for a rebound. Esco if he gets consistent playing time, santana may be slightly rebounding already.

Disagree, Mauer is signed though '18, Perkins through '17. Meaning if we want to re-sign them or trade them, it should happen next season for Perk, or the season after for Joe. Tulo is signed through 2020 at least. THAT is a long term deal. Dozier is signed through '18. We have pitchers coming off the books like crazy during that stretch, but will likely need arms to replace them. Gibson could get a huge payday. I'm not sure Meyer, May, Milone, Gonsalves, Hu, Berrios, and Stewart will ever be as good as the current rotation. Maybe, but odds are we will need to spend. By the end of Tulo's contract, we will likely be looking to extend Sano and or Buxton to giant deals, and Berrios, May, Milone, etc. might have earned a large contract by then as well.

Tulo is a huge immediate upgrade. I have a little trouble stomaching the contract when guys like Perkins and Mauer will either have to be extended or traded soon, and guys like Dozier, although extended, and Plouffe will be arb eligible, and then the Sano's, Buxton's, and Gibson's of the world will likely be looking for paydays as well. Providing we don't want to wait to see FA or arbitration, we're going to have to make a lot of expensive decisions in the near near future. Re: Nolasco being traded. Can players be traded from the 60 day DL? A quick search showed yes, but you need commissioner approval? Sounds like a dumb fantasy football rule.