golfboy1

That makes as much sense as anything. His stats are underwhelming but maybe the Twins see something in him as a LOOGY. I'm not impressed by the move but it's much ado about nothing. He will certainly not get in the way of any real prospect & it will not stop the Twins from making any 40 man roster moves. He's just another LH guy they are throwing into the mix. Odds are he won't pan out but there is always a chance. A year ago I never would have thought Thielbar would amount to anything & so far he has been an asset.

There are several differences. Dozier is 3yrs. older than Hick & though he failed in his initial call up he still hit better than .192. Dozier went to winter ball to work on his game & learn 2nd better. He also only had to beat out Nishioki & Carroll. Pressley is a "decent" CF option until he fails or someone beats him out. Hicks hasn't even proven he can hit AAA pitching. He is terrible vs. RH pitching so I don't understand why he would be handed a ML starting position. That's what AAA is for. Work on his weaknesses. I hope he tears it up in AAA & forces the Twins to call him up but I doubt he will start in the majors. If Mastro is healthy he can make the team as a NRI. One or more of the starting pitcher options will be sent down or cut. If he proves he is healthy I believe he will make the team.

It's crazy money but they are all crazy money these days. I think in the long run it will work against Seattle but it doesn't look any worse than many of the other deals being done. Which contract/player would you rather have? Pujols, Hamilton, Howard, Fielder or Cano? They are all going to be bad at some point but Cano's deal might be the best of the bad contracts.

Yea, this is much ado about nothing. Neither of these guys are anything but a lottery ticket that the Twins hope they can get lucky with. I guess they would rather take a chance on a LH starter than a RH power reliever. With their current collection of abysmal starters I can see the logic of that. There is no way either of these guys are going to cause the Twins to lose someone they want to protect.

I agree. I understand Texas wanting to find a spot for Profar & Fielder might be ok short term but I wouldn't want Fielder for much longer. Another year of decline & Fielder would have been basically untradeable. Detroit didn't do great...getting Kinsler for 4years @ 92 Million if you factor in the extra money but that's still better than 7 @ 168 Million. Wow, I'll give Detroit credit for seeing the light & getting out from this deal but it ended up costing them $76 Million Dollars for 2 years of Fielder + they had to take on another contract which isn't that great. That's a lot of pizza!

But teams aren't going to give up anything good for a 87MPH back of the rotation starter making $12M. Teams in the playoff race are looking for something better than that. The Twins would be better off signing Josh Johnson & hope he rebounds if they are trying to flip for a prospect. I hope this doesn't happen. Arroyo is a decent pitcher & he's durable but I'd rather see the Twins go for Hughes or Kazmir. Heck, I'd just as seen see them resign Pelfrey since he's younger & has a chance to put up numbers as good as Arroyo. Signing Arroyo means the Twins have a chance to improve from 63 wins all the way up to 66 or 67 wins! Unless this is just their 1st signing & they still plan to go after someone better I'd rather see them pass.

It's a much better group of prospects than 5 years ago. I would rank Kepler a little lower & bump up Pinto & May a few spots but that's just personal preference. On the bottom end I would eliminate Ortiz & a couple of others & add Malinowski, Ibarra & Stirewalt. I'm also a little surprised Hudson Boyd fell completely off the list so fast. I know his stats weren't very good but I thought his stuff was still ok. He had a decent 2nd half of the season & he's still pretty young so I have hope for him yet

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. It's always possible to make a case with stats to argue a point. Mike Pelfrey had an ERA of 3.25 in July & 3.60 in August so if we ignore the other months he had a good year. Hicks improved slightly after April but he still only batted .230 with an OBP of .292 in July before he was sent down. An OPS of around .700 isn't terrible but it ain't great either. If he is going to be leading off then his OBP is probably more important & that was still under .300. He batted .047 leading off & .189 vs. RH pitching so I'm not certain that he is ready to lead off yet. Hicks batted .227 in August & .241 his last 10 games so I guess that was an improvement over earlier AAA numbers but they still weren't very good. They didn't recall him when rosters expanded so I suspect they want him to show improvement before they hand him a job. IMHO

Yes, Puckett started out as a leadoff hitter. Knoblauch batted second while Gladden was the leadoff hitter. You yourself said Hicks "was thrown into a position that was ridiculous." How is putting him back into that same position now any better? He hasn't even come close to hitting either ML pitching or even AAA pitching. While I'm not claiming Presley is the long term answer to CF or the leadoff spot I certainly think he is a better short term solution than giving Hicks the job. I think Puckett & Knoblauch are the exceptions. It's much more common that players come up to the majors, struggle for awhile, get sent down & hopefully learn what it takes to play at the ML level. So far, I've seen no indication that Hicks is ready to play at the ML level.

Kirby Puckett basically skipped AA. He started 1984 at AAA but was called up fairly soon & never looked back. I'm not sure what your point is regarding Hicks skipping AAA. Admittedly, it's rare that someone does it AND succeeds. Hicks did not succeed & at this point I see no reason to hand him the job. I'd love to see him get off to a good start at AAA & force the Twins to call him up but I don't think they have any plans for him to open the season in the majors. I like your idea for the Twins to go after Hughes on a 2 or 3 year deal. He has a chance to be a solid middle rotation guy. I'd prefer they take a chance on someone like Johnson instead of Capuano. I don't think Capuano is an improvement over what the Twins already have & he is getting older & injury prone. I also like the idea of sending Pressley to AAA to start. The Twins need to explore every option they can to get good starting pitchers. I don't have any problem trading Doumit but I don't think he will fetch anything close to Martinez.

I like Kepler, but I don't see him being ready to stick at the ML roster in 3 years with NO option of sending him down. He batted .237 at low A ball & he doesn't project as a great OF or a great baserunner so his bat will have to carry him. I think we are overvaluing Kepler. He wasn't rated as a top 20 prospect in the MWL & while he has a chance to be a good ML player so do hundreds of other players in A ball. Heck, even on CR I would rate quite a few players higher than him. Houston could take him since they really don't seem to care what their record is but they would have to leave one of their own prospects exposed to the draft. I think if we protect Kepler now & he continues to develop I am more concerned we would lose him thru waivers or be forced to keep him on the ML roster when he could use more seasoning. We always worry about losing someone in the draft but nobody has drafted a Twins player since 2008 & that was a player named Jose Lugo...who I don't even remember. He was eventually returned & hasn't done anything.

How is Hicks the "right guy right now"? He batted under .200 & looked hopelessly lost most of the time. It didn't look like he was showing any real improvement during his recent play before he was demoted. Then he managed to bat .222 @ AAA after his demotion. Presley might not be great.. or the long term answer but I fail to see how rewarding Hicks with the job after last season makes sense. You can't use Presley's stats against him but ignore Hicks stats. I'm all for Hicks being the Twins CFer...when he has shown enough improvement that he warrants it. Bottom line. Presley might not be great, but SOMEONE has to play CF & bat leadoff & he seems like the best current option. BTW..Hicks batted .047 last season leading off

I just looked up the last 5 years of Rule V selections. It's an overwhelming number of pitchers that get selected. There have been 63 pitchers taken & only 6 OF in the last 5 years. I don't think any of the OF amounted to anything so far. Of course, not a large % of any of the picks work out but there are a few pitchers who have at least had some success...including Scott Diamond & Ryan Pressley. I'd put the chance that Kepler gets picked at < 1% & even then there is a good chance he might get returned.

I wouldn't add him. Houston, Miami & the Cubs have plenty of their own prospects to protect. I guess the White Sox could find a spot for him but he has zero chance of doing anything for the year except take up a roster spot & truthfully, he isn't that great of a prospect. At least with a power arm, you can use them occasionally. The main reason I wouldn't add him isn't for this year but down the road. What happens in 3 years when he runs out of options? You have no choice but to keep him on the team or risk losing him. I don't see his development path being so fast that he will be ready to stay on the ML roster for good in that time frame. Better off taking a very small risk now & gaining the extra year later. IMHO I agree, they should have plenty of open spots so that really isn't the main concern.

Actually, I think converting Perkins back into a starter might be worth considering. He's the only guy they have with good enough stuff to be better than a 4th or 5th starter. A front end starter has more value than a closer(IMHO). Duensing shouldn't be given another start. His stuff barely works out of the pen & he got lit up by RH hitters as a starter. Swarzak has a slightly better chance at success but he is doing a solid job filling the role he has. Why convert him into another #5 starter?

Pelfrey hasn't been great but would you really rather have Diamond, Worley ,Walters, Hendriks, Albers or Hernandez . None of them have performed that well & I don't see fantastic upside from any of them. I'm giving Pelfrey some benefit for coming back to soon. At least he has improved over the 2nd half while nobody else of the above group has stepped forward to claim a spot for 2014. I've stated I hope they do more than just sign Pelfrey but there is more than one spot open in the rotation. I count Correia & Gibson as definite starters and that's it since I believe Deduno will be out. Pelfrey has had 2 decent seasons with the Mets & 2 bad seasons. He was a #1 pick (overall 9th) so he was a highly regarded prospect at one time. I don't think we have to worry that the Twins are going to be so good within a 2 year timeframe that we won't know what to do with Pelfrey. Meyers & possibly Mays are the only 2 SP with high upside that have any chance of being ready within 2 years. "The Twins could have a full rotation with replacement level pitchers for less than Mike Pelfrey's salary" I doubt that, unless you want 5 pitchers who suck & have zero potential to not suck. The average MLB starting pitchers salary is over 5 Million Dollars so if you want to get 5 starters for a total of Pelfreys salary I don't predict any real talent among them. What would you prefer the Twins to do? I'm all for them improving their starting rotation & hope they sign Hughes or someone who is better than Pelfrey but I still think Pelfrey is better than most of the current options. Plus, if he is actually pitching good they could always flip him to a contender at some point.

I agree they should do more than just try to sign Pelfrey but I think he is worth a reasonable 2 year deal for 10 or 12 Million. If he wants much more let his walk. I think he has a chance to pitch to a #4 or maybe even a #3 starter. His stats have been ok since he has come back & built up some arm strength. I think we have to factor in how fast he came back from TJ & that he is at least trending in the right direction. I don't have much hope that Worley, Diamond, Walters, Albers are going to be as good as Pelfrey going forward. I'm afraid Deduno will need surgery . There aren't a lot of great options for FA starters but I'd like to see them take a run at Hughes & maybe get Josh Johnson. He's high risk but at least he has high upside if he recovers

This is the crux of the problem. Santana & Garza are decent pitchers but even they aren't really THAT great. Who else is really worth the money they will get? I don't think Lincecum is going to be worth what he will get & most of the rest look like back end filler. I guess Phil Hughes might be worth the risk since his splits indicate he is much better away from Yankee stadium. I can see resigning Pelfrey if the price is right. His ERA in July was 3.25 & it was 3.60 for August. Correia Pelfrey Gibson Hendriks & whomever else sticks. Maybe Hughes will sign. It's not looking that great but I think we might as well get ready for one more crappy year before things improve. Hopefully Meyers will debut at some point to give us a legit top of the rotation pitcher.

Here is where we differ. I linked a LeVelle Neal column where he stated the Twins were willing to include cash. Here is another article which states the Twins were willing to include cash... Pirates looking at Morneau after landing Marlon Byrd - CBSSports.com "Morneau has cleared waivers, and word has been that the Twins are willing to pay some of the close to $3 million left on Morneau's $14 million salary, depending on the prospect worth returned in a trade." Gardy makes a comment that "money is an issue" & some draw a straight line that it means ..."The Twins never entertained picking up the cash" & that the Twins are going the cheapest route. It doesn't actually mean that. Maybe the Twins agreed on Presley & Welker but the Pirates insisted the Twins add 2M before they would agree to the deal. Maybe the Pirates caved at the last minute & Ryan got the players AND saved the 2M. Ryan should be GM of the year. Obviously we don't know all the details but I don't see where the Twins refused to include money.

I don't recall this... "There were multiple reports from outside the Twins front office earlier in the season of deals involving prospects the Twins liked but that they wouldn't make because of money." I heard it regarding Morneau recently but I'm not aware of it being an issue earlier in the year. So we are not to believe Len's column regarding the Twins willing to include money but it's ok to believe others regarding the Twins being cheap? I'm not disclaiming that money WAS an issue. It's just how we interpret what it means. It's possible that the Twins went to Pittsburgh & said..."We will pay $2M & we want your # 12 prospect. Pittsburg came back with ...no, you pay the 2M & we will send our #30 prospect. MN responded ...if we only get #30 then you have to cover his salary otherwise we want your #15 prospect. Pittsburgh could say.. You're not getting anything higher than #25 regardless of the money. I don't understand why the Twins would be so adamant about dumping his salary...since they would still have to pay it if the deal fell thru. Players don't often change hands as a straight up waiver claim....although it does happen...but if Morneau had much value he would have been claimed. If a player has value someone will claim him. A. So they have exclusive trading rights to him. B. To prevent another team from getting him. Apparently the Yankees (an example) weren't even the slightest bit worried that Baltimore would end up with Morneau & they didn't want to take a chance they would get stuck with his salary. I wish Ryan could have gotten more for Morneau but I think he got decent value, considering the circumstances. I truly do not think Pittsburgh was ever going to give up a solid/better prospect for a player with such limited value.

It's certainly possible...I'm not privy to any of the trade negotiations that actually went on. Here is a quote from LaVelle Neal's column Aug. 29th regarding the Twins trying to trade Morneau & Willingham. "3. TRADES: I don't expect the Twins to make any trades before the deadline - at least involving Justin Morneau or Josh Willingham. I'm getting indications that the interest in Morneau isn't that significant. They would have to eat salary if they move either Morneau or Willingham (which they are willing to do), but will that be enough to get a decent prospect in return?" According to him, they were willing to eat salary to move Morneau but the interest wasn't significant...at least he doubted they would get a decent prospect in return. This doesn't indicate the Twins "never even" considered sending money to cover salary. We don't know what was all discussed. No one claimed Morneau off waivers so I have a hard time believing he had much interest/value. I don't see a team giving up a solid prospect...regardless if the Twins paid his salary...for someone who wasn't worth putting in a waiver claim on. There are reasons to be disappointed with the Twins/Ryan but I can't find much fault with this trade. Frankly, getting Welker was about the most I thought he could get for Morneau.

I feel the same. I'd like Liam Hendriks to pitch good in his starts but if Pelfrey or Correia get hammered I don't feel bad. I'd like to see Colabella have a good finish but Doumitt or Thomas can go 0 for the rest of the year & I'd be ok with that. Right now the Twins would pick 6th but it is really bunched up. I'm hoping they can get the 4th pick but I don't want to see them go on a winning steak & fall all the way to 13th or so.

It's possible that the Twins could have gotten a better prospect if they kicked in the money but I don't think it was likely. Morneau has very limited value. Even if they got him for zero dollars I can't imagine Pittsburgh giving up a decent/valuable prospect for him. Would you give up a good prospect for one month of Morneau? He's simply not that good anymore. After Pittsburgh acquired Bryd I'm surprised they still had any interest in Morneau. I don't believe anyone else was interested in Morneau so they weren't exactly in a bidding war to acquire him. I don't know why the Mets added 250K in their trade but it is such a small amount I can't imagine it made much difference prospect wise. It could be that Huntington had the deal done & he thought he could get the Mets to cough up a little extra money or maybe it simply speeded up the deal by a week or so. Here's a scenario.. If a team was doing a trade with the Twins & it came down to James Beresdorf & the Twins eating the money or someone like Jorge Polanco or Zack Jones & the other team eating the money...what would you prefer? I think most of us would rather the Twins keep the better prospect & eat the salary. My thinking is the Pirates had the same thought process. They were not going to give up a better prospect for a one month rental who is OPS .741. Presley is a minor upgrade over Thomas with a slight bit more upside. They are just placeholders until Hicks gets it together or Buxton arrives. Welker is a power arm for the pen who might help. It never hurts to accumulate as many power arms as possible since only so many ever make it. Heck, a week ago many posters were clamoring for Ryan to get rid of Morneau as a salary dump(along with Willingham) just to open up AB for other players. Now he actually got 2 players who can contribute, albeit minimally, it seems he still screwed the pooch.

I think we are wasting bandwith discussing Ellsbury coming to the Twins. It's not the Twins MO to sign a big time FA for a LOT of money for a LOT of years. The Twins would have to outbid & overpay by a significant amount to even get Ellsbury to consider coming here. Yes the Twins have money to spend but it would be better spent on pitching, maybe the Japanese pitcher or Hughes. The football analogy doesn't really work.... plus GB didn't want Jennings back that seriously so he picked the Vikings since they have a reasonably good team & he knew he would play. IMHO Money does matter but it's not the end all. These players are going to get a boatload of money regardless so there are other factors involved. IIRC, Puckett & Hrbek turned down significantly more money to stay with the Twins when they had the opportunity to move. I hope you aren't giving up on Arcia being an OF for the Twins. He'd better to able to play the field for many years or the Twins are in trouble. There are endless amount of OF'ers who can't field better than him who play OF on a consistent basis