halfchest

It just doesn't end, wow. Really hope the guy is ok, what a tough year, just shut him down now, it obviously just isn't his year.

I thin at this point you bring him up and let him get his last 40 innings in at the major league level. I think the experience could be valuable for him going into the off season. That taste of a higher level can let a person know what they need to work on to succeed at that level. The flipside is this, the Twins are getting close to the end of the year and with other teams putting players on waivers, the Twins may want to make some claims and pick up some overpaid but useful pieces so adding another player to the 40 man makes this harder. Also, at this point they could leave Meyer down have him start at Rochester for a month next year and gain an additional year of control. I would have liked to see Meyer up a month or two ago but at this point there is some logic to keeping him down until the beginning of 2015.

Gotta remember Willingham ad KC could definitely move in August

So what are the chances of these catchers staying at catcher? Swim, Turner, and Garver all potentially have an above average bat for a catcher but do they have the defensive chops or the potential at least? Just curious if anyone has some better insight on this.

I'd love to hear thoughts on Travis Harrison. I glanced at a box score a couple weeks ago and noticed he was hitting around .290 which excited me since I thought last year, man if that guy could get his average up a bit his numbers would look really nice. Well he's done that but he's also reduced his walk rate and hit only 2 homeruns this year leading to an overall decrease in OPS. I just looked at him again and a couple things stuck out to me. He has hit only the 2 homers but already has 26 doubles after hitting only 28 total last year. I wonder if some of those doubles would be homeruns in other parks as I hear consistently the FSL is pretty pitcher friendly. The other thing that stuck out is how much his K rate and BB rate have dropped. Last yer he was striking out almost 28% of at bats and walking just over 15%. This year he is striking out 18.7 % and walking 10.5 %. So, is this a good thing for development? or a bad thing? I like the drop in K's but the loss of homers and BB's is negative. Just something I noticed and was curious about as he's been this kind of fringy top 10 prospect since he came onto the team.

I'll just remember him being a part of the bullpen days when the Twins always had those ridiculous stats of what their record was with a lead after 7 or 8 innings flashing up on FSN. Now, that was obviously overall a better team so there were more opportunities, but damn it felt good to have it just be damn near lockdown if they took a lead into the 7th. So while I can't recall a specific game I just remember feeling so good with a lead when you had guys like Rincon, J.C. Romero, Joe Nathan, Jesse Crain, damn that was fun. Except when Jesse was a the Crainwreck!

No one player is the reason a team wins or loses, or the reason a team brings in revenue. This isn't Tennis or Golf so yes it takes a team. Revenue does in fact come from fans. Corporate sponsors don't just come out of nowhere because they really like baseball. They sponsor the team because fans watch and/or go to the games, buy the merchandise etc. So yes, the fans do in fact drive the revenue. Think of it like radio, I don't pay a dime to listen to it, they make their money by selling advertising. However, if no one is listening then they don't sell advertising. Same goes for a professional sports team, if no one is watching the games, then no corporations are going to sponsor the team/invest in advertising. Now I'm sure a portion of this is locked in long term (Target, TV deals) so year to year performance and fan interest doesn't matter but the point still stands. It's economics 101, businesses(the Twins) are there to satisfy(appease) their customers(fans). We do agree though that winning is the ultimate goal and that will both win fans and as a result of winning fans bring in better TV deals and corporate sponsorships. Again, you're absolutely right that Glen Perkins is a small part of this big picture. The same argument can be made for most professional athletes other than the huge stars like say Lebron or Jeter. The decision is if they are a positive part of the team or a negative. My belief in keeping Perkins is that he provides value both as a fan favorite and on the field performance. He's locked in for 4 1/2 years and yes, I believe the Twins will compete in that time frame and he will be part of what makes them competitive. There comes a point where a team not only needs to rely on their farm but they need to start retaining MLB players to partner and the timing of this seems to be what the biggest disagreement on this board is about. The Twins are most definitely not buyers, they're also not in fire sale mode like they were when they sold Span and Revere a few years back. Keeping players that will be a part of the future makes sense to me at this point. I could be wrong maybe we suck for the next four years and/or Perkins falls off a cliff. That's just the risk you take, same as if they trade him. Maybe they get the next Clayton Kershaw, maybe they get the next J.D. Durbin. In the end, this is a ridiculous argument that no one will be proved right or wrong for a long time. If they trade him they need to wait for the prospect(s) to develop and if they keep him and he thrives, we'll still wonder what could we have gotten for him and was it better. If the Twins keep him and he sucks, again who knows would we have gotten anything decent for him anyhow? I think I will need to be done with this thread as I need to get some work done but it's been entertaining to say the least.

I can see we obviously don't see eye to eye on a lot of things. I suppose for your fandom trading Perkins for a prospect would be appeasing you? I'll argue any business works its best to appease their customers, which in baseball is the fans either paying to watch games on TV, in person, buying merchandise etc. so while I'm not going to bluntly just say you're wrong, we obviously disagree. I think when it comes down to it, all successful MLB teams appease their fans in one way or another. Do they make awful decisions to do so? Hopefully not. Winning appeases fans, I think we can agree on this. So is keeping Perkins helping them win more? Yes, you even said it they will only lose 90 with him and 100 without? Doesn't make a difference? Well what if next year Perkins is the difference between going .500 or losing another 90? (note, I don't think perkins is worth 10 wins by himself) When does it end? Is it playoffs or bust? I guess I don't have the answer. I suppose for the future if you ain't first you're last (shake and bake) might be the best philosophy so you get higher draft picks, etc. But if we go .500 next year and we show that we treat our players well then maybe, just maybe, a top free agent chooses us over another team for the same salary. As you pointed out, winning attracts free agents so maybe Perkins and Dozier are the guys that get us to a more respectable place next year or maybe even this year to some extent. Lot's of ifs buts and maybes in all scenarios. At some point a team needs to start retaining it's talented players especially those with multiple years of control at an affordable rate. Perkins and Dozier are both debatable guys (obviously). They could both bring a lot in a trade or they could be two of the veterans that lead this team back to respectability along with the young prospects and a few free agents to finish it out.

This is just it, we can argue over when the team will be competitive again until we're blue in the face. To me it comes down to a commitment and I do believe there are some intangibles that have nothing to do with on the field performance. He's a hometown guy who signed what appears to be a hometown discount. It sends a poor message to other players considering extensions or signing. The same argument was made against trading Willingham his first year too. Maybe the Twins missed out on a good prospect, we'll never know but trading a guy in the first year of a long term contract to me is poor business and could set yourself up for later repercussions. In this case players not signing here or being unwilling to sign an extension. As far as appeasing fans being dangerous? Baseball is entertainment and they make their money by appeasing the fans. It's finding that balance of appeasing current fans and future fans that is the trick. This team is better than the last few years even if they don't have the amazing W-L to prove it. I'll bet on continued improvement and even pushing for a playoff spot in 2016.

Even though I disagree, great post, good topic of conversation.

I can see where it makes some sense but I think there is also a loyalty issue here. Perkins signed that team friendly extension and I believe he most definitely took a home town discount. To trade that guy in the first year of said extension seems like sort of a shady move. May it make baseball sense? possibly. Gotta remember these guys are more than just trading cards, they have families, etc. Glen is a lucky one in professional sports in that he is good enough to play in his hometown, be a star and raise his family in his home state. I have to think he signed this contract with that in perspective. What would a Glen Perkins trade net? Would it save the franchise? Would it turn everything around? Possible I suppose, Do we trade Phil Hughes too because he won't pitch a meaningful game for the Twins? Brian Dozier is only locked in for four years maybe he should go too? At some point you need to start keeping your best players and hoping things break right, the Span and Revere trades made a lot of sense as there wasn't really anything to offer hope in the upper minors at that point. Now we have a lot of young guys starting to come up, starting to learn and contribute. My hope is that May, Meyer, Buxton, Sano, Vargo and possibly Rosario and/or Polanco all spend significant time in MLB in 2015 which would put us on track to contend in 2016. So while I can get the sentiment that it might make sense to trade Perkins, especially if he can net us a pitching prospect with Ace upside that is already in High A/AA. We also have to consider the human element and what message it might send to future free agents/extension candidates if he's traded.

Re: Pinto being viewed as a catcher, I think the jury is still out. I don't think the Twins sign Morales and send Pinto down if they don't think he has a chance to stick at catcher. The other factor is that Suzuki has been far better than expected so it was hard to sit him on the bench either. The team sent Pinto down to get work at Catcher and he's played half of his games there since being sent down. He played every game he played last year at Catcher in both the minors and majors. I truly think his DH starts this year were more a result of Suzuki hitting so well then him being so awful. It will be really telling to see where he plays at Catcher the rest of this year. I think worst case the Twins think of him as a part time catcher/DH but I don't think they're abandoning hope that he could start there at some point. I guess only time will tell. That said, I wouldn't have any problem with reupping Suzuki for another year or two. I also wouldn't mind if they trade him as long as they get one decent prospect back.

oops wrong thread!! please ignore

We got Miguel Sulbaran for Drew Butera . . . who I just checked on and is doing quite well in the FSL this year. He looked like a good return for Drew back when we got him and still is looking like a solid return for an all glove no bat catcher. Just makes me think we could get something pretty solid for Suzuki and would be the right move to trade him. I don't want them to give him up for peanuts but I think we're looking at one solid prospect at the very least for him.

We got Miguel Sulbaran for Drew Butera . . . who I just checked on and is doing quite well in the FSL this year. He looked like a good return for Drew back when we got him and still is looking like a solid return for an all glove no bat catcher. Just makes me think we could get something pretty solid for Suzuki and would be the right move to trade him. I don't want them to give him up for peanuts but I think we're looking at one solid prospect at the very least for him.

I noticed Vargas, Polanco, May, and Rosario were all mentioned in the large "others considered list that was just alphabetical in order. Anyone else that should have been in that "others considered" list? I can't think of any off the top of my head I guess. That list had probably near 100 more prospects listed so it's quite an extensive list. Thorpe? He was pretty high on a lot of peoples lists last year it seemed, has skipping a level (Elizabethton) and poor results hurt his prospectdom that much?

I think it's really hard to judge without seeing the error. The whole argument of well if he wouldn't have gotten to it, it would have been a hit. Still 4 errors in like 15 or so games isn't good but just like all his positive stats small sample size so it's hard to take too much from them. That said, if the kid keeps hitting like this I would love to see a call up to Cedar Rapids like they did with Buxton just to see if he can hack it there. Sure seems like he can handle the bat so far.

It would be great if he was striking out closer to a guy per inning but other than that, good ERA, limiting home runs, good WHIP 2-1 GO/AO ratio. All with this being his first year in pro ball. While he's not making me excited that we have a future Ace, I'm not too disappointed either.

I assume they still are and that is why he was sent down. He was still hitting well when he was sent down just not getting time behind the plate. Just checked and he's only playing a little over %50 of his games at Catcher in Rochester with his other starts being at DH. Seems odd but I assume if they were going to pull him from catcher they would have him start working at 1B or the outfield.

Two thoughts, Kris Johnson gets the next call to start for the Twins next time through if Deduno doesn't hold it down on Monday? Nick Gordon - nice start, love that he has only 4 K's in 31 AB's Hate that there's only 1 BB. If he continues to hit what are the chances he follows the Buxton track and ends the year in Cedar Rapids? I just mean the Buxton track for his first year not getting too far ahead of myself here.

Has Pelfrey gone to the 60 day yet?

I'm pretty sure I called that Oliveros promotion in a thread. Just destroying AA hitters, hoping he turns up good for us didn't we get him for Delmon?

This is why I'm fine with the Twins leaving him at High A this year. If they move him up and he struggles is it because he's at AA or is it because he wore down again. He seems to just be getting better as the year goes on though. I won't complain if they move him to Double A but would rather just see him close out a good year at High A then start in AA next year as a 21 year old! If he puts together a good first half there then bump him to AAA and he's right on the doorstep by the end of next year.

This guy deserves an update. He just finished what was probably his best start of the year. 8 IP 11 K's 1 BB 6 Hits and 1 ER. Dang. His overall ERA is down to 3.90 after a rocky start but over his last ten he's at a 2.45 ERA according to Milb but I notice it only has partial stats for todays game up. so tack on two more scoreless innings to that number. He's also gone at least 6 Innings in each of these starts with a few 7 IP performances, todays 8 IP, and a complete game. For a guy drafted out of the top ten rounds he's looking like he could be a contributor soon. At 23 years old for this whole season he's not young but he's certainly not old either.

I don't have a problem with that at all it also gives them a backup CF and 2B on the roster should an injury occur. It will be interesting to see how he develops. If he's good enough to play those positions in the MLB he might be worth more in trade for the Twins than in a corner spot. If that happens well then its a good position for the Twins to be in either way. I'll wait for Buxton to get healthy or Hicks to get better before I get worried too much about him being blocked in CF though. Where is Arcia in your scenario? DH? I was thinking that might be Vargas spot in 2016.