LA Vikes Fan

You got that right.

I think you're probably right and to me trading Donaldson and eating part of his contract makes little sense. There's no real reason to trade Donaldson UNLESS you move his contract and that money is immediately used to extend Berrios and/or Buxton. Then, moving Donaldson could make some sense. Otherwise, keep him. Who knows, maybe we can contend next year and he can be part of that.

Maybe, but let's put Shoemaker in the bullpen and see how he does. That's a way to potentially create value.

I agree. Shoemaker has little to no value to the team or in trade as a starter. He MIGHT be able to develop some value in the bullpen. I say put him in BP, give him a shot, and see what happens before DFA time. It couldn't get much worse out there and he might adapt. I also wouldn't give up yet on Kepler or Polanco but might consider moving Kepler for a big return that's unlikely to be there. Sano? It looks over for him in MN. A real shame.

I think you have to look at this as a series of tiers and see how offers play out over the next month. My tiers: Definitely trade players ranked in order of value - Cruz, Happ, Simmons, Shoemaker, Colome. Try to re-sign or trade if unable to re-sign - Pineda, Robles, Buxton (maybe trade in the off season). Trade only for a good offer or simply keep - Donaldson (possible), Kepler (unlikely), Garver (even less likely). Demote, DFA or trade if someone will give us something - Sano, Cave. Keep unless completely blown away - Polanco, Rogers, Duffy. Keep even if blown away - Kirilloff, Larnach, Arraez, Berrios (pay the man!), Maeda, Alcala, Jeffers/Rortvedt. Hard to care one way or the other and no one will give us anything anyway- Garlick. Astudillo, Theilbar.

I think you have the right approach Brock, although I differ on some of the details. I would try to re-sign Pineda, not move him. I would move Simmons and Cruz for sure. If possible trade Donaldson but we have to get a strong return. Happ will be moved (and should be) to make room for Thorpe to get at least 10-12 more starts this season. Shoemaker should be put in the bullpen to see if he can reinvent himself and become a trade chip; Dobnak back in the rotation. I would try to extend Berrios and Buxton using the money that would come off from trading Simmons and Cruz. Getting the money to re-sign those two is the best argument for moving Donaldson so I so I wonder about eating part of his contract. I don't know if extending those two is possible but we need to find out so we can make a trade in the offseason or even this July if we can't extend them. On a daily basis, Kirilloff and Larnach need to play every day and easily can if we move Cruz. I would like to see Gordon get a shot but that depends on moving Simmons and/or Donaldson. Move one and Gordon becomes the UTL, move both and Gordon plays 2B with Polanco at SS and Arraez at 3B. A little scary on defense, so I would lean towards keeping Donaldson unless there's a real strong return in the offing. Give Vasquez a shot in the Bullpen; otherwise, I think we're stuck with what we have. The elephant in the room is Sano; Kepler can play RF in a platoon with Garlick and Larnach in LF every day if we make room for Arraez in the IF either by trading Simmons and moving Polanco back to SS or making Arraez the super utility. If not, Kepler is the 4th OF so Larnach can play RF every day with Arraez in LF. Polanco is starting to hit so he needs to play every day. There si no place for Sano unless we move Cruz so he can get DH ABs or play 1B/Dh in a movable group with Larnach, Arraez, Kirilloff, etc, switching around between OF/1B/DH/UTL. I'm not ready to release Sano but might if he won't agree to an assignment where he can find himself at a lower level (it's my understanding that he has an option but has to consent because of his MLB service time). The key thing is a mindset shift from a "contending team" to a "developing/reloading team". The latter trades guys who are really only here so we can contend this year. That's Simmons, Happ and Cruz at a minimum and could include Pineda and even Donaldson. Time to make that shift in thinking.

I agree, Mike. Just because Pineda didn't do well in the 6th doesn't mean you pull every starter after 80-85 pitches. Let these guys go and give them a chance to work out of jams. This bullpen isn't getting better any time soon so we have to try to get length out of the starters. Speaking of which, the one place we seem to have a little tiny surplus is starting pitching with Thorpe and Dobnak at AAA. Let's call one of them up to start and take a current starter and put him in the bullpen to see if he could be more successful in one or two inning stints. I nominate Matt Shoemaker since we have no long-term commitment there and he has been our worst starting pitcher by far. Maybe we will get lucky and he will be successful as a high leverage reliever, reinvented himself, and provide value at the trade Deadline. His level of starting pitching is replaceable with either Dobnak or, I think, with Thorpe who we need to develop anyway. This is now officially become a development year, not a contending year. Let's get the young guys some real opportunities. Kirilloff and Larnach need to play every day, Garlick and Kepler platoon when Buxton comes back. On the pitching side, I would actually bring up Dobnak first with Shoemaker going to the bullpen, then bring up Thorpe if there is an injury or when we inevitably trade Happ at the deadline for low-level prospects. Let's give Andrew Vasquez as a chance in the pen and we should really think about whether Jax or Duran can come up this year and get their feet wet at the MLB level by pitching out our bullpen. I know Levine subscribes to the two months evaluate, two months fix, two months enjoy theory of roster construction but I don't think we need to wait our full two months to make this change. Six weeks of bad baseball is enough.

My reservation just got called. Thank God, I can end the pain.

So, with this game seemingly out of reach who wants to play guess the final score as I sign off for the evening? I’ll go first. Final score White Sox 11, Twins 5. Yes, that means I think the Twins will score after the third inning. Brave prediction, I know.

No we don’t want to burn out the pitching staff but for goodness sake Happ needs to come out of there.

Billy Hamilton with two extra base hits. You can’t make this stuff up. It just keeps getting worse.

Seriously? At some point, you just have to laugh. Anyone called up or are we just going to throw in towel completely.

Well, I started the game knowing that I could only watch for about 45 minutes to an hour tonight. The good news is that I'll get to see who wins!

Is that the ghost of Billy Hamilton that just hit a triple? I thought he was loooong gone. Oh, and by the way, Happ sucks today. Time for Devin Smeltzer to get a few innings?

I agree completely. there's a much better chance of Polanco getting back to decent hitter than Kepler or, especially Sano. Teh good news is that we have replacements for Kepler and Sano in Buxton and Kirilloff.

And Yessss! Sano strikes out. We'd all like to see him get back to himself but this is so hard to watch. He is just clueless up there. Does anyone think there's any chance he would agree to go down to AAA and rebuild his swing? Is there a hitting coach he trusts somewhere we can hire to work with him? This is not working.

Wow, game already over? I'm in LA so it's only 5:30. I have dinner plans later, thank God, so I can only watch the first couple of innings. Or the way this is going, the first inning or two.

I hear you and Garlick is actually hitting against LH pitching. I also realize that there isn't really any other place to play Larnach unless we sit Arraez or one of Polanco, Donaldson or Simmons and move Arraez into the infield. Still, we need to evaluate Larnach as an every day player so I'd like to see him play against LH pitching some times. This may not be the right game but but I would like to see Larnach in the lineup against a LH starter on days when we rest Polanco, Simmons, Donaldson or Arraez. Let's get him to the top of the list of players that we shoehorn into the lineup for the next 2-3 weeks so we have a good handle on where he is when Kirilloff hopefully comes back. That's important information in making playing time decisions between these guys down the road. Speaking of which, any word on when Kirilloff will return?

Boy, it isn't hard to see why the White Sox are so far ahead of us when you look at the 2 lineups. And that doesn't even count the differences in the two bullpens. Oh well, at least it's good to see Kepler playing CF and Garlick in the lineup instead of Cave even if I'd rather see Larnach in there somewhere.

Wow, if Duffy is our 3rd most trustworthy reliever we are in some deep do–do. He has been awful. While I'm not sure whether these rankings are what you think management does think or what you think management should think, I would definitely put Alcala ahead of Duffy as a reliever in whom we should have some faith and trust. I see it as: A good quality backend reliever – we don't have any of those. A Small gap Rogers - Close, but no cigar. Who knows, maybe he could become that good quality reliever he once was. A pretty good sized gap Robles - B- guy who is not that trustworthy but might return to form. Alcala - B- guy now but might improve if given more opportunity. The Grand Canyon Duffy - A great example of why you do need to get in shape even to play baseball. Think low carb diet. Colome - Come on, he can't be this bad based on prior years, can he? Theilbar - Meh. Mediocre and doesn't really belong on a good team (so he probably does belong on the Twins). The Mariana Trench Everybody Else.

Not only are we looking pretty futile, it's hard to see a way forward here. I've been one of the voices saying call up Law!! Call up Larnach! Send down Jeffers!, etc. it's becoming increasingly clear that bringing up guys from AAA is not likely to be the answer other than some help at the margins. Kirilloff looks like he could be a long-term Lineup fixture if he is not hurt, Thorpe looks like he could develop as a starter if we can make room for him in the rotation, I still think the Dobnak can be decent to good number 4 or number 5 guy in the rotation, and maybe Jeffers can get it back together. That looks like it's about it. At the major-league level, it looks like Polanco is getting back to his old self and we do have some other guys who are solid, but Kepler and Sano have regressed horribly and show no real signs of improvement (particularly Sano), and age may be finally catching up to Cruz - still a good hitter, but no longer able to carry the team for stretches the way he could at one time. Maeda is pitching like the number 3/4 starter he was the Dodgers, rather than the ace we thought we might've lucked into last year, and Berrios, Pineda and Happ are all competent starters but none of them are true number 1 guys and only Berrios is really even a solid #2. The bullpen is a disaster. So what we have here is a team with about two thirds of a lineup at best, a middle and back end of the rotation but no top end, and about one third of a competent bullpen. All this, and not much down below to provide immediate help. So what do you do? Much as I hate to say it, I'm beginning to think were doing pretty much everything we can short of trading guys. And that's what's so depressing. We have to play Garver at catcher because he is the best we have and we've got to sort through Jeffers and Rortvedt to see if we have a competent 2nd catcher. Rortvedt simply can't hit at all, so it's probably time to give Jeffers another shot or maybe Tellis. They called up Larnach and Kirilloff, and each of them should play every day when healthy at the expense of Cave, Kepler and Sano. I'm not sure what to think of Garlick as a longer-term piece and maybe it is time to demote Cave and give Broxton a shot, but not at the expense of at bats for Kirilloff or Larnach. I would love to see Gordon get a shot but frankly middle infield hasn't been the problem in the short term. I think his shot comes in July or later after we trade Simmons for low-level prospects. I would like to see Andrew Vasquez get a shot in the bullpen and Alcala get more high leverage innings, but there we're stuck with hoping that Duffy, Rogers and Colome simply do better to really see much improvement. Stashack needs to go back down and try to re-find a groove and it's hard to see how Theilbar is really any part of the solution. I would also give Robles some higher leverage innings, not because I see him as a long-term solution, but I see him as a potential trade piece in another month to a team desperate for relief pitching. It's also probably time to take some of our better starting prospects and try them in relief this year as necessary. Once these steps are taken, time to work the phones. I think Simmons, Robles, Colome (another guy we're going to have to get back to high leverage innings to improve his trade value), and Happ are all viable or potentially viable trade pieces for decent prospects. I would include Kepler and Sano as trade pieces but their value is so low right now and the potential is still there, so I think we have to keep them but limit their playing time for now. It would be great if we can send those two to AAA to re-find their stroke but I know that service time and options prevent that from happening. I would also seriously consider trading Donaldson and Cruz but you would have to get a significant return to make either trade worthwhile and I don't really think that significant return is out there, especially for Cruz. I would not trade Buxton unless you're firmly convinced he cannot be re-signed. I think you go ahead and make the higher financial commitment to both Berrios and Buxton if you need to to get them signed and take the risk on whether Buxton can ever stay healthy. I realize that the result of a plan like this is that an 80 win season is probably our best hope for and even that may be out of reach. I frankly think we're already there. My view would be to use this year as a way to set up next year. I think the lineup as soon as possible this year and for next year needs to have Kirilloff and Larnach as everyday players, probably needs Arraez in the infield rather than the outfield playing either 3rd base if there's a Donaldson trade or 2nd base there's a Simmons trade with Polanco moving back over to short, and with a Kepler/Garlick platoon in right field or with Kepler in centerfield if Buxton is hurt or traded. I think Thorpe and Dobnak need to be in next year's rotation, so they need to get some MLB starts this year, and I would love to see 3-5 starts apiece from Duran and Balzovic to at least check on where they are. We are going to need to transition to a younger, hungrier team. This team simply isn't good enough to really contend and we are not going to be willing to pay enough to attract veteran ballplayers to augment this group, and because veterans want to go where they have a chance to win and right now this team does not give them that chance. We may not have the right manager or stand for that kind of the team. My view should keep Baldelli, get a different hitting coach, and stay with the pitching coach. In short, time to punt on this year's win/loss record as the measurement of success and switch to player development as the primary goal. It sucks given our preseason expectations but I think this is the reality of where we are.

I don’t know if the season is over, but it is at best on life-support. Nothing kills a baseball team more quickly than blown late leads/ ties by a bad bullpen ( see Davis, Ron). The bullpen is sucking the life out of this team and probably cannot be fixed. The more interesting question is whether anyone is going to step up and make a mark this year for the future. Watching for that may soon be the only reason to watch this team, at least sober. The second most interesting question is whether this manager and coaching staff survives the season intact. I’d the odds of stating intact is no better than 50/50.

I think 4twins JA has the right idea. The idea is to play Kirilloff and Larnach as much as we can to see what they can do. I do like the idea of having Garlick around to play against LH pitching. I think when Arraez gets back he is going to need some outfield days since it looks like Polanco is heating up and showing us he can actually hit. I would like to see Kepler play CF more so we can get other guys in the lineup in the corner outfield spots. If we don't want to do that, then I think we need to get Broxton up to the majors instead of Cave and play him in centerfield and also add another right-handed bat. That would wind up being at the expense of some advanced for Kepler and Larnach down the road. Cave can go down to AAA and see if he can refine his stroke. It doesn't look like were going anywhere this season so we might as well find out whether the guys we have can play.

Well said, Mr. Nelson. You really encapsulated they way I, and I suspect many others, feel about this team. You see glimmers of hope for the lineup, the starting pitching seems decent, but the bullpen and clutch defense just seems to doom this season. Add in some injuries and very poor managing at the FO and field levels and it’s just hard to see how things can improve. I’ll still follow the team and rant on Twins Daily every now and then, but my heart just isn’t in it this year. This team shoes no signs of life, fortitude, or resilience; nothing you can grab on to and give one much hope. It’s frankly a little sad.

Best thing that could have happened to us. Every additional game in which Arraez and Kirilloff can participate is a good thing. With Polanco heating up a little, maybe the order can go 6 hitters deep.