AlwaysinModeration

I don't think Gardy would say "wow" over a fourth SP. I agree that this sounds like Drew. Or maybe Garza. But a hitter seems more likely to generate that reaction. IMO.

i don't have the BP list (not online yet, right? I assume the reports are what they have printed in their annual), but this point system seems to be "101-X" where X=the player ranking.

I was trying to think of some guys whose trajectory look like May. Two guys I came up with pretty quick off the top of my head--Sabathia and Scherzer.

Quoting Boone: April and May 2013: 60.1 IP 7.9 K/9 4.8 BB/9 1.7 K/BB June on : 95 IP 10 K/9 3.3 BB/9 3.0 K/BB If May had posted those post May numbers for the entirety of 2013, I think we would be talking about May much more optimistically. To me, May's track record show two (slow) trends: overall improved numbers the second time in a league, and a slow down-tick in his walk rates. May just started with a new organization last year that has had (in the somewhat recent past) success in grooming low-walk rates pitchers. I think it is waaaay too early to relegate May to the pen...I am still very hopeful that May not only makes it as a starter, but turns into something pretty special over the next several years.

I would take our 11-15 against any team's: Rosario-Gonsalves-Pinto-Kepler-Jorge

Drew>Florimon. Signing him would make the team better. If TR were operating at the edge of his budget, the issue of whether the extra cost for Drew was worth it would be good to debate. But TR hasn't approached the maximum budget, at least according to the stated 50-52% of revenue mantra. So any move that will improve the teams chances, he should do. Sign Garza--who cares if there is a glut of out of option fringy guys? Garza's innings give the Twins better odds at winning games than Diamond's or Deduno's (or Correia's). TR seems to do pretty well maximizing the Twins' minor league system, trying to accumulate the maximimum number of prospects with upside as possible, using whatever means possible. He doesn't seem to be using the same approach with the big-league club, leaving dollars and wins on the table.

Sizemore sounds like a nice idea (back in 2010, you could have made a good case for him to be set up to be one of the best players for the next decade), but realistically, I don't see that happening at all. We should want Hicks to get another shot at CF, and with the way Buxton is coming, it has to be sooner rather than later for Hicks to get another shot. If you sign Sizemore, then you likely have a muddled situation no matter how you work it. To answer the question at hand, it does seem quite plausible to me that Bartlett could, if healthy, be the Twins starting SS on Opening Day. That doesn't mean he would be much of upgrade, but that speaks more of their current options rather than his level of play.

Are the Twins a part of this competition?

The payroll sits at about $83mm, right? And management repeatedly touts 52% of revenue, and the ability to go to $100mm, right? (Which they have surpassed before, right?) I'd propose $17/year for Garza times 4 years...4/68. Plus maybe an option year? And if Correia is traded (for literally nothing), they are back to $95million for the season. He would be the highest paid pitcher on the roster (ever?)...but he is a Twins organization player, so it's not like it is a total free agent pick up. In four years, when the wave of young players are getting expensive, his contract comes off the books. And he helps them become very competitive for the next 4 years, I think, until Sano, Buxton and Meyer hit their prime.

Up to 31 votes, Piazza creeping up to about 72%. Twins Daily has a pretty good ballot, I'd say...those four look like a pretty reasonable guess as to the players to be voted in this week. I'd say TD is way low on Morris, and high on Bonds and Clemens. Other than that, pretty spot on. One thing that is off with the TD ballots is the fact that we don't have any dumb "not anyone ballots."

Thanks for rescucitating this thread. Here is my ballot: Bonds Maddux Clemens Piazza Thomas Glavine Biggio Bagwell Raines Schilling I can't believe that I can't vote for Edgar, Mussina, or Walker. Trammell, Kent, Morris were all superstars, too, but just outside for me.

Sold! Where do I sign?

And upgrading from Correia to Garza would be hugely popular around here.

I seem to recall during the winter meetings there being rumors of Garza getting signed within 24-48 hours. Waiting until January 24 may be hard to take of Garza is eager to land somewhere. Maybe the Twins could in fact take advantage of this weird drawn out Tanaka scenario. My wild guess is that TR is willing to go 3/48, but Garza is asking for at least 4/60. Maybe 3/50 would get it done? I would love that signing. I also think Correia would be more valuable than Blackburn, especially after coming off a decent year, which Blackburn was at least a couple of years removed from. I bet they could at a minimum unload his full salary, if not get something in return.

It seems to me it is a trend, and the trend is being driven by the hitting side of the equation. Teams don't care if a player strikes out a lot, if he is swinging for the fences and taking more pitches.

A discussion of the dismal start of the rotation in 2013 should include the historically low strikeout rates, especially given an era where teams are succeeding in large due to an increased focus on strikeouts.

I'm holding out hope that Colabello will be a pretty good player for the Twins for at least a couple of years.

Really interesting thread. While the nominal topic is Worley, it seems like "how will/should the #4/#5 spots in the Twins rotation shake out, especially given out-of-option type considerations?" Here are a few points to add. 1) When all else is basically equal, the Twins usually side with out-of-options guys. Therefore, I would expect to see Worley, Deduno and Diamond on the roster in some form sooner than Gibson, even if he nothing to prove in AAA. 2)Presly had to be rostered all year last year as a Rule 5, and can be sent down with an option this year. 3)Trading from the bullpen makes a ton of sense...Swarzak might be an attractive chip. Perhaps a different thread could focus on a number of the bullpen guys...Duensing, Fien, Burton, Thielbar? 4)The biggest point of contention on this thread is Correia and whether he gets a scholarship/earned a rotation spot/is blocking guys with more upside. This proves the point that everyone made last year about the signing: WHY did he get two years?!? Would be in such a better situation if he, or anyone, was just signed for 2013. 5) That said, I am going to love seeing people's heads explode around here when TR announces the three-year, $17.5 million extension for Correia.

There is definitely something to be said for a having extensive experience in an organization. That would definitely be a strong selling point in his application, it can certainly help an individual succeed in a position. However, I agree with the point that Twins do not do a good job of making prominent positions open to a wide range of candidates. And I am concerned that the organization does not necessarily embrace new ideas. I think a more open process for hiring top management would help foster that sort of working environment.

This move is great, I like it. Here is the BP write-upon Gilmartin last year, when he was ranked #6 by Jason Parks I. The Braves' system: 6. Sean Gilmartin Position: LHP DOB: 05/08/1990 Height/Weight: 6’2’’ 190 lbs. Bats/Throws: L/L Drafted/Acquired: 1st round, 2011 draft, Florida State University (Tallahassee, FL) 2012 Stats: 3.54 ERA (119.1 IP, 111 H, 86 K, 26 BB) at Double-A Mississippi; 4.78 ERA (37.2 IP, 41 H, 25 K, 13 BB) at Triple-A Gwinnett The Tools: 5 FB; 5 SL; 5+ CH What Happened in 2012: True to form, Gilmartin made 27 starts, logged 157 innings, and forced weak contact at two levels in the upper minors. Strengths: Pitchability; pedestrian fastball velocity, but can move pitch around and add/subtract; above average changeup is effective; keeps righties off fastball; has good sink and arm-side fade; slider flashes above average, works as average offering; good two-plane slice; above average command profile; makes it work. Weaknesses: Lacks true plus pitch; relies on sequence and location; pitches to weak contact; not big bat misser; curveball is get-me-over/change-the-sight-line pitch; will pitch backwards off changeup. Overall Future Potential: 5; no. 4 starter Explanation of Risk: Low risk; mature arsenal; pitchability; already achieved Triple-A level. Fantasy Future: Back-end innings chewer; league average at best; steady. The Year Ahead: A crowded rotation could keep Gilmartin in Triple-A for a healthy chunk of the 2013 season, but an opening is only an injury away, and the 22-year-old southpaw has the makeup and arsenal to step up to the highest level and hold his own. The stuff is average to solid average, but he makes it work by moving the ball around and changing speeds, keeping hitters from sitting on his upper-80s/low 90s fastball. It’s not a sexy profile, but dependable innings eaters have a lot of value, and Gilmartin looks like a safe bet to live up to that prophecy.

I am fine with the offseason so far. Would love a problem of needing to decide between good, performing pitchers. That hasn't happened for some time.

I'm more inclined to believe it is the calm before the calm. However, I would be ok being wrong and see the Twins spend exactly $100 million today on Garza (4/64) and Drew (3/36). Just for the record.

You kind of make it sound like Correia is not expendable now.

Oops, I started reversing those halfway down. Fixed (career numbers) Arroyo vs Garza H/9 - 9.2 vs 8.6 HR/9 - 1.2 vs 1.0 K/BB - 2.37 vs 2.55 WHIP - 1.29 vs 1.28 ERA - 4.19 vs 3.84 ERA+ 104 vs 108

Arroyo compared to Garza: H/9 - 9.2 vs 8.6 HR/9 - 1.2 vs 1.0 K/BB - 2.55 vs 2.37 WHIP - 1.28 vs 1.29 ERA - 3.84 vs 4.19 ERA+ 108 vs 104 Garza is definitely better, but the difference isn't as big as I would have guessed. Arroyo wouldn't be that terrible of a move, for a much cheaper deal. Arroyo has also cut down his walks every year for the past five.