TheLeviathan

Take offense Pseudo and clean up your retorts. Your "dead in the street" nonsense you should be ashamed of. Its beneath you. To then call out someone else's committment to real solutions after that pathetic nonsense is embarrassing. You know full well I dont play sides. My retort to jocko was coming - you just jumped the priority list with your high and mighty crap after twice sounding like a smug, shallow alarmist.

The real question is who does Jeff Gray have leverage on if these two went before him.

You know, I would've responded to your whole post - but this just rubs me wrong. I respect your opinion Psuedo, but seriously, screw this smug nonsense. You know what really stands in the way of smart policy and fixing this process? The left's Mrs. Lovejoy impression every damn time this conversation comes up. That we're going to "dump" people "in the streets" and duct tape, spit, starvation, and other BS. This claptrap is what stops the conversation from ever happening in the first place. Hell, in this little space of the interweb your shrill nonsense derailed the conversation and it is the perfect microcosm of the national debate. Someone says "Medicaid reform" and the left-wing can't wait to start running ads about the elderly being shoved off cliffs by fat-cats. I could give similar examples of college financial aid, school funding, social security, and just about any other welfare program. You want a smart conversation? Put down the damn bunny and the gun you have to it's head and let's talk. You and other of your political persuasion are what is stopping this from happening by your own version of "oh so you want the terrorists to win?" response to a perfectly pertinent question. (Iraq war, just for the record) As a libertarian I can look you in the eye and honestly say I have the same intentions. What you can't do in return is honestly say you mean to discuss them. The drivel you tried to pass as arguments in this thread alone show your real intent. I, and I think most other libertarians at least, are ready for that conversation. It's you and the rest of the Lovejoys that have to back off so we can have it.

I will continue to hope to see Hicks and Arcia until they (probably) let me down.

Really....we pitched Perkins in this game?

Two players and we contend in 2013. Or so I hear. On the plus side, some nice young talent coming soon.

I'm actually offended that he's being paid as much as 10 public school teachers combined. It's an affront to humanity really - screw the baseball performance angle. I've moved past that.

Twilight > Jeff Gray continuing to draw a major league paycheck.

I agree with Gibson too, but the rest of the list? Yuck It wasn't just that. If you were playing the "Which one of these guys is not like the others?" it's CLEARLY Berrios. So I started reading an article, flipped a few pages, and it's like the damn author changed.

I thought this was interesting when they started with Berrios......and then I saw the rest of the list.

I'm more concerned with the fact that Span is starting to build concerns about durability. Given that he's likely to be deallt at some point soon, that is a much bigger issue to me.

And people are worried about putting Parmalee out there. Have they seen Doumit?

Yeah, that's how a catcher playing OF prepares for a tag....

I was hoping Diamond pitching would give us some better looks. The guy is built more like a third baseman, I guess I also didn't know he was a switch hitter. There is really a lot to like about this kid, wish we would've seen him sooner.

Thread could've just ended right here. This is right on.

Florimon is a more intriguing player than I thought. I had a mental image of a tiny, frail Alexi Ramirez type - but the he's a pretty big guy. The fielding report looks pretty dead on so far too - very smooth.

Except that's not the context of the point. People are often ignoring the things that broke right because they see one of the worst teams in baseball and figure much more has gone wrong than right. Yes, many things have gone unexpectedly wrong. And some of the unexpectedly right things will continue. But it isn't as lopsided towards "gone wrong" this year as many around here try to portray. In fact, I'd argue we've had more unexpected pleasant suprises than we've had unexpected unpleasant surprises. That doesn't bode well for the immediate future.

Pseudo....the discussion is happening because in this very thread someone is suggesting that the rotation wasn't even viewed as a problem preseason! Please look at the context of the discussion. And all over this forum people are talking about one or two FA pitchers putting this team into contention next year. I would call that using FA as a silver bullet. Especially when I could list a dozen things that have broken right for this 2012 team and they're still awful.

Right now someone is snickering in the corner of this forum at you Smerf. But they were really just doing us all a favor censoring you....

Sure if you want to use Statfreak and Dave as your ying and yang that's a fair criticism. The fact is, most of the time when you are a realist and slightly pessimistic you take a beating for it. I've mistakenly done that after 2010 (Nick) to others too, so I'm not trying to play any games with this. The fact is there are many that always want to see the glass half full. They have noble reasons for doing so, but that doesn't make every pessimistic take wrong. Take this year, we're one of the worst teams in baseball and people are talking about how we can use FA as a silver bullet for contention next year. I want to hope for the best too, but at some point reality should enter the equation. And the reality about this rotation coming into things was that it was likely to be a major problem. Lo and behold, it was.

You've got a strawman and a ridiculous notion here. Nothing comes with a guarantee and no one is suggesting that. Hell, the Angels are in a dogfight for the playoffs after adding CJ Wilson, Albert Pujols, Zach Grienke, and a wunderkid to their already solid roster. The notion that FA can be any more a silver bullet than rebuilding is just foolish. No one is guaranteeing rebuilding will work, but there are some valid reasons to defer to that strategy. When you build around young talent you give yourself a longer window of opportunity. The team next year has many, many question marks and is coming off a season in which it was one of the worst in baseball. A couple FA pitchers could help a ton, but they won't fix everything. And to me, it's all about focus. If you focus your FA work towards the future - spend away. Go get someone that will be here and contributing for the next 5-7 years. But if you focus on putting your eggs in the 2013 basket I think you will horribly waste an opportunity down the line. Think about it this way - the Twins had two waves of good young players that put them in contention. Their hesitation to ever add to that mix hurt the team. But you have to have that intact core before you can go outside the organization and fix all your ills. Putting aside the hypocrisy of "Don't trade Hammer and punt 2013, but trade Span and Morneau" - Span's team friendly deal will simply not be enough to garner a significant piece. (Hell, look how bad Sanchez failed for KC and Span doesn't even have that kind of value) Morneau is making 14M and has had basically one stretch where he looked great again. Trading from this supposed "glut" A) isn't going to fetch much immediate impact and puts even more pressure on Hammer and Doumit to defy 6-7 years of career norms for staying healthy and producing. The Twins potentially have a core they can compete with for a decade coming very soon. That same group could fail miserably, but the group we have right now is not a core to build around or invest assets into - we KNOW that much. Willingham will not be a longterm solution - but Revere, Plouffe, Dozier, Hicks, Parmalee might be. My opinion has always been - build with an eye towards what will be the most sustainable and durable. 2013 offers little of either.

Well, if he's ok with Doumit - Parmalee can't be any worse. I'd like to see the kid up - I don't see what justification Ryan would have not to call him up.

Yes, that Alexi Casilla. The one we should cut after this season. The way Dozier has played the position defensively, it's not a stretch to say Casilla would be better right now. Anyone who suggests that we should be worried about winning now and next season (as you have) shouldn't be advocating Dozier to be getting significant time until he's actually ready. He's spent the last three months demonstrating that he is not ready and shouldn't be playing. Personally - I think he should have been sent down at the all-star break, worked on things for a month, and come back right around now. He's potentially part of the future so we should've been treating his development with more care. But the idea that he's clearly the best SS option we have isn't backed up by his play - defensively or offensively.

This strikes me as Gardy being comfortable with Mastro/Doumit in the OF and he wouldn't have played Parmalee. Which wouldn't be unusual for this team - in that case - would rather he stay at AAA.

Well....the last time Parmalee was up he got a nice spot on the bench virtually every game he was here. If we call him up again - he needs to play. If that means Doumit sits quite a bit, so be it.