TheLeviathan
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Everything posted by TheLeviathan
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You have spent several pages minimizing the initial reaction and that included death treats. It was vitriolic doxxing. Enough so that the school closed down. And that's scraping the surface and putting it mildly. That has been the central criticism from us moderates (really, we're mostly liberal as today's spectrum dictates) who are trying to rise above tribalism. The scope and nastiness of the initial reaction is the problem and you, unfortunately, have spent several posts hedging and minimizing that. (I can cite posts, but start with 94) Essentially, you keep moving the goal posts. It's nice to hear you are now critical of the scope of the initial reaction, you might have saved some confusion in the conversation had you been less interested in defending that reaction.
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Yeah....thats horsecrap. I might buy it if I had heard more from those clowns during the Castille case. Thesilence was deafening for that gun owner.
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Buxton Has Gained 21 Pounds of Muscle this Offseason
TheLeviathan replied to nytwinsfan's topic in Minnesota Twins Talk
If true, I hope whatever motivated him to do that continues all season. -
Harper. I love the fun way he approaches the game. He'd be a nice fix to the OBP issues too.
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I missed this, it's a good post. I think that's a fair observation and one i share. Now that we know more about what happened, do you think the rationale being floated here by some posters (and it's not unique, it's out on the left right now), that the initial reaction (death threats among a host of other pretty unacceptable responses) is still justified simply because of the hats? That the hats themselves warrant the initial response, regardless of whether their actions were mostly banal or not?
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Well, that analogy isn't apt at all and its purpose is to do what? Justify a completely unacceptable initial reaction?
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These questions and thoughts are very similar to my own. Self reflection is a tricky thing, even trickier when the subject matter has the potential to be offensive or when it deals with politics or other emotionally charged areas of our life. Or when it threatens to shatter our self-image. Even trickier still when you're trying to help someone else untangle their own thoughts on such matters. You're asking someone to de-construct their own sense of self. It's no small thing.
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The one that was over an hour long you posted. Yes, the right wingers are being ridiculous. I posted about that last night in fact, but let's be frank: most people here are liberal. There is enough of an echo chamber, these conversations are useless if we aren't willing to call our own on the floor. If there were conservative here I would (and have) done so. Ain't the case in this thread. Go watch that video, it doesn't validate that concern.
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Those are all good questions, I think it cycles back to the origin of this thread too. Am I responsible for my privilege? Am I responsible for ignorance? I don't think so. What I'm responsible for is how I react to situations when they occur and someone felt offended. Now, sometimes, I'm going to push back because I don't believe every time someone is offended that I owe an apology. But sometimes I do and at the very least I owe them to listen. But here's the thing...we also have to listen the other way. Someone with no ill-intent, being labeled a racist pretty much ends our chance to reverse their ignorance. Now, I'm not saying we listen to KKK people about their opinions, I think that's an obvious waste of time. But the ignorant? (In the true sense of the word) Or those who inadvertently crossed a line? I hope we are at least open to the idea that their actions need to be changed, but the person is not a horrible, irredeemable racist. At least I hope that's true.
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It might have happened, but let's be honest here: what Phillips told us happened versus the video are not the same thing. It's why witnesses are so unreliable. His accusations towards the boys don't hold up upon the whole video. Is it possible those accounts are also inaccurate?
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I guess we'd have to discuss what kinds of acts you're talking about. I think intent is important to keep in mind. A lack of ill-intent may not be sufficient to wipe away how racist an act is, but it may eliminate the racism of the actor. If that makes sense.
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If it was deliberate - it was racist. I guess my earlier comment muddled that reading back. I was thinking it might have been trying to antagonize people on the city vs. rural, but in hindsight you're asking a good question. Yeah, it would be racist. I just think the question of whether it was this one time, or if they did it for every game, is needed to know if it was deliberate.
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From growing up rural...I think the concern is legit. However, I would like ot know if they did this every game or specially for this one? That makes a big difference IMO. But given the feelings towards minorities in places like Jordan (I have coached against that school and played them in high school), I'd guess that this was deliberate. Maybe not racist, but probably deliberately antagonistic. That's just a guess, not an accusation. I'd like to know more info before I level up to an accusation. It fits well with this thread, because even if it wasn't intentional, it does speak to the lack of awareness for some people.
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I do think it's a poor choice for a bunch of 18 year old males to be spending a day at an abortion event and wearing stupid hats, but is wearing the hats the only real offense they committed in your eyes?
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Yes, they have always acted that way. So what little room I have to demand action of them (holding to their own 50% mark), I'm going to do it. Not to mention, if what you say is true about putting unused money towards the future....it would've been true in your very examples here. But it wasn't. It never has been. It likely never will be. That's my entire point and you've disagreed with. Perhaps you see the error in that now?
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I think this is a fair criticism of the right (and works with this thread's title) coming out of this. I don't know if this particular liberal has eaten his crow, but assuming he has (if he joined in the flash reaction) this is a fair counter point to the right's reaction to this. There are some fruitful conversations to have coming out of this strange confluence of political issues. As long as we keep the truth in mind and come at it with some humility. So, on second thought, maybe not.
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Keys to 2019: Buxton’s Emergence
TheLeviathan replied to Cody Christie's topic in Twins Daily Front Page News
Let's hope he has 500+ ABs. That should be the best sign of all.- 42 replies
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- byron buxton
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http://www.reactiongifs.com/lol/illK6U.gif
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Sure, I bet if they lost a ton of money (something they have never done) that it would make them gun shy. That would fit a Pohlad mindset. But we're not talking about that, we're talking about re-investing profits in future years to exceed normal payrolls. They have stated they do not do this. You can quote theory until you're blue in the face, but the Pohlads have never operated that way and stated that they do not operate that way. You have zero evidence they will re-invest profits (they've literally never done it) and your suggestion runs directly counter to their stated business practice. You can mock my understanding of economics, but my position is grounded in a ton of evidence. And it's the simplest explanation of their behavior to boot.
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He's a conservative writer, but damn were there some 5 star one liners. I'm a big fan of this one: This thread has been a monument to that at times. These kids were receiving death threats and told they deserved a punch in the face for their blatant racism and now, when the cold, clear light of day is available to us what do we hear? "Welp, I don't think the initial reaction was all that different" and other tripe. Just, ugh. It's ok to admit you got suckered by a false narrative. It's hard to dodge them these days and even harder when the path is always so well greased. Truth is eroding fast on the right to be sure, but if you're on the left and can't eat your crow...you should probably look in the mirror on your own contribution to the erosion of that once precious value.
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What mocking was there? I have heard the tomahawk chops referenced, but if you see earlier in the video that was being done by the Native American groups while they were singing. Now, you could say the kids shouldn't have joined in maybe, but even Phillips said he was happy they got into it and tried to sing along. Did I miss the press conference when the political left and right formally announced that video evidence is no longer a thing?
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It's fine to say everyone could've done better. The original narrative was not that, however. They are not guilty of anything overt or antagonistic, they're just guilty of being buffoons who should've walked away. I don't think Phillips was doing anything overt or antagonistic either, perhaps just a flawed strategy., His subsequent emotions are just that: emotions. Those are not substitutes for facts. Given what we now know of the facts, the initial narrative was very, very mistaken. That shouldn't be hard for honest people to acknowledge, but at the end of the day the real beef is with the hats they were wearing. And, as such, it's a political belief being disguised self-righteously behind trumped up attacks on their conduct. I too despise the MAGA hats and what they stand for, but truth comes before politics for me. That reversal is a major part of our problems right now.
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Nothing you are stating is economics. I'm not sure how you think that's the case. What we're discussing is how the organization operates and that is at their discretion. And, I know you haven't accepted this, but they've also made their methods clear publicly on this issue.
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I like my intellectual integrity, even with the ccassional crow. I prefer not to double down on foolishness. Guess I'm the odd duck. I'm out, crow is tough when it's cooked.
