TheLeviathan

I dont think moving down 30 spots and some mid-round picks is a high price at all for a ggood tackle in his prime.

31, 94, 136 and a fifth for 58 and Orlando Brown is a steal for KC. No reason the Vikes couldnt have made this work as a deal trading down from 14 to 27. Woof.

They have some interest in the long-term stability of the game. It's unlikely the flagging support and interest changes their bottom line, but it might. And balance in hitting/pitching is vital to stemming the tide on the game's interest levels publicly.

But then they won't be soaking people for money RIGHT NOW! What kind of crazy business ideas are you high on where investment in your future is important? Silly person.

I can get behind that.

Also, worth pointing out in this conversation that the only thing really trending out of control is strikeouts. While putting balls in play is important, most every other per year metric is within "normal" range for the last twenty years except strikeouts. Even if you think HRs are worrisome, doubles have trended down over their slight rise. Indicating players are just getting that extra lift to clear fences more than an all or nothing approach. Now I'm aware all of that means more outs are being made at the plate, but that also indicates about the same number of hits (which create more action) are landing as they always have. I think that's an important distinction for diagnosing the problem. Shifts are kinda lame, but it isn't the problem. What has escalated out of control is the degree to which pitchers are controlling games. This seems like a plausible reason why. It's why I'm a fan of experimenting with the idea of giving hitters more time to recognize pitches so they make more contact.

Great to hear! Moving the mound back msy help with balls in play FWIW. As long as dudes who are 6'5 are humming it up there at such high velocities there will be contact issues at the current distance. Perhaps the all or nothing plans hitters use as their approach could change if allowed more time to recognize a pitch.

The scouting services seem to be all over the map on him. I doubt he's an option there either. For me the big takeaway is that if one of the QBs slip, or the WRs, there is hay to be made in moving down. A pick in the 50s can land you a starting OL in this draft.

PFF has a pretty good simulator. I think this one is plausible in that one of the QBs slipped to 14 and Washington got aggressive to move up. Vikings walk away with an edge rusher, two small school linemen, a QB project, and a bunch of nice development guys. Plus two first round picks the following year is never a bad thing. Christianson is a great fit for the OL as a development guy and Dalman could be as well if muscled up. Johnson could start at safety right away. Johnson is an excellent slot talent at WR. I'm a big fan of Herbert as a legit starting running back and with Dalvin's injuries this is a nice place to have depth. Mond isn't a guy I like as much as I was Hurts last year (I was basically running that guy's fan club) but he's an interesting player who I think is more than worth the flyer if we have some extra picks to work with.

Missing from the conversation of "they should just hit the opposite way" is that teams are well aware they are shifting. It's not like the pitcher approaches the batter the same way either. Most of these lefties with the shift on get worked hard inside. Going opposite field on a 95 mph fastball on your hands is not "easy" for anyone. I'm partial to moving the mound back myself, but as Brock pointed out....no league but baseball is so afraid to adjust it's rule set to the ebbs and flows of how the game plays out. In hockey goalies started piling on gigantic - the league acted. Not to mention changes with two line passes, interference, etc. Basketball smartly implemented shot clocks when teams exploited possession. They've gone back and forth on zone defense and 3 second rules. Football continues to tinker with OT rules, extra points, allowing defenses to change personnel once a huddle happens, etc. Only baseball just puts it's head down and pretends problems will magically go away if guys "just blah blah blah". That's not reality. If we want to talk about symptoms of a bigger problem, some of you are demonstrating a long-standing issue with the league - stick your head in the sand over tradition or other stodgy notions and meanwhile keep throwing dirt on the league's future.

There are no fun ways to lose, but there may be no more frustrating way in all of sports than a baseball team and a bad bullpen.

I'd be pretty happy to land Slater.

Yeah, I won't attempt to defend that list, but it does speak to how frequently GMs across the league blunder badly. Spielman has warts, but my god the bottom of that list....woof.

FWIW....NFL.com ranked Spielman the 6th best drafter in the NFL.

No, I don't have confidence, but I don't have confidence in them drafting OL in pretty much any round. Nevertheless, they need to. I do agree they need to consider changes to those groups. I'd suggest another possibility to look at is our strength and conditioning coach. We do pretty well as zone blockers creating running creases. What we suck at is holding up against a bull rush or moving a guy in a short area.

While true, I would point out that the OL talent is not what it was even 10 years ago. We've been on a steady decline for a long time. The 1998 Vikings today, would be unearthly good relative to the rest of the league. This isn't an excuse, they have to be better, but part of the problem in identifying better talent is that the talent pool has been hot garbage for a long time now. And it's true across the league.

Maybe they're really good at coaching it as a subtle trick,

I wouldn't view zone blocking schemes as a bandaid. Several of the best offensive minds in the game (Shanahan in SF most notably) employ the system because of how effective it is at moving the attack and creating opportunities for play action. I don't know who is to blame for why the team can't identify linemen, but it's a problem. That's why I pushed back on the idea that the Vikings haven't drafted guys that have started for them - they have (Elflein and Samia to name the two most recent) - the problem is they aren't very good. But neither are their high picks like Bradbury. The team is struggling to coach and develop or identify guys who they can coach and develop. I don't know the diagnosis, but the team's with the best OLs in the league aren't burying every first round pick into their line. They're the Packers who take guys in rounds 2-7 and keep manufacturing bad asses. Philly did the same on their run. Dallas tried and most of those guys are washed up or gone. New Orleans has done well, but they also have developed a lot of 2/3 round guys to where they are. That's the path to a better OL - better identification and development for their scheme. But, make no mistake, good OL play is in a drought that is seriously harming the product on the field right now. Virtually every team in the league, including pretty much all of last year's playoff field, have OL as a need. Personally, I trade back, grab the best pass rusher, and then bury my next two picks in the best guys on the OL I can find. There will be good talents that are long term starters in the NFL in this draft taken later.

Nashville and compete with Memphis which already doesn't draw? Vegas, where the entire state is full of transplants? (I live in the 6th largest metro area in the country and there are more Cubs fans than D-backs. And it ain't close) Plus, Vegas will almost certainly be Seattle's expansion partner anyway and they make more money off of that. Seattle is going to be an expansion team. San Diego will not build them a stadium. That leaves the luscious confines of....Louisville? I mean, c'mon. Oakland and Cleveland were free agent destinations for a bit. New Jersey is right now. Maybe it's less about climate and more about not sucking. I've now lived in four different major markets and they all have their excuse for why they can't land a big player. Ours is always climate. You hear that BS here too. Yet, once we started winning and offering substantial money we landed big fish targets. Money and winning talk. The Wolves have been too terrible for the money to even matter. The business side is super easy to see by the way: They see a team in the bottom third of value with 20 years of terrible ownership and performance that still gained 10 times it's value in the last fifteen years. They'll be getting two fat expansion checks. They are buying into one of only two leagues not dying off with the young fans. They are in a top 15 market in the country. This is basically guaranteed to multiply their investment by several large factors with even competent management. Moving them will do nothing to add to that.

At this point isn't believing the Wolves are bound to stay more of a masochistic conclusion rather than romantic?

I said 2nd round....didnt I? Also, your point isn't even accurate. I take your point but it'd by nice if the reverse was true too. There is depth to take OL later in this draft. Pass rushers are mostly going to be gone by pick 35. And this team desperately needs pass rush help.

Where would they move and make more money?

I think there is a good chance several of the elite OTs, WRs, and CBs is sitting there at 14. If so, it puts us in a really good spot to trade back and pick up a 2nd round pick. There are some nice tackles and guards to pick from in the 2nd and 3rd round. I'm growing more and more partial to taking a pass rusher and spending the next two picks on OL. (Someone like Eichenberg, Walker Little, Jackson Carman, Brady Christensen, James Hudson - they all fit our scheme and are good talents)

Right. I didn't articulate that point well, but it was across the board in sports. Oakland's football team moved to Vegas but that's a clear upgrade. The Twin Cities are the 14th largest market. It's just highly unlikely they can find a better situation. And the league will want to keep a team in the upper midwest. They stepped in once before and I expect they would again. Plenty of money to be made here with competency.

I really like Morneau, but Hawkins is the best guy they bring up there. I feel like a three man booth with those guys would be ideal. Hawkins will bring the conversation out of Justin and bring the energy and Morneau will continue to give really good analysis.