kab21

Why don't the Twins don't get any points for exploring the trade route and getting Worley and two pretty good prospects? Isn't that being aggressive and looking further down the road than just one season? The Feldman sign and trade ended up being great for the Cubs but the Cubs love on this board is getting a little ridiculous.

I'm not sure you really know how hindsight works. Saying the Twins should have signed these guys that worked out is hindsight. Saying that you knew that two guys that should have been counted on would be dreadfully awful is hindsight. Saying that the top prospect would be dreadfully awful instead of stabilizing a rotation spot is hindsight. Saying that someone could have targeted guys (done in this thread) like Colon, Feldman, Villanueva or Liriano is hindsight. Liriano had his supporters but I think it was pretty clear that these two were going other directions. The Twins choices in FA: Go big - Would have worked out well but nobody should have had expectations that the Twins were going this direction. I actually supported going after Greinke since he is actually legitimately good compared to the 40-80M options. Sanchez is not the same pitcher that he was in Miami. The 40-80M options - only Jackson here and I thought he was a terrible option Go after guys that weren't coming here - Kuroda (resigned with the Yankees immediately), Peavy (signed extension) and lohse sifting through the cheap options - I don't think Ryan gets any credit for picking Correia. Many hated this signing and still don't like Correia. Pelfrey was a bust but perhaps we would feel differently if he had been in the minors rehabbing for two months and he didn't get called up until he had 12 months post TJ. So Ryan hit on one and missed on one. that seems pretty consistent with this tier of starters. The only thing one can justify criticism is that he didn't sign 3-5 of the guys in this group. I don't think that would have went over well on this board though. I hope this isn't considered as defending Ryan. His offseason was hardly inspiring as the 2013 season. It's pretty obvious that despite his Sept comments he was focused on future years. I think most were suspicious of these comments immediately. The guy missed in this whole hindsight analysis is Ryu. I liked tossing some money at him similar to the Cuban that is available right now. he at least came with upside and youth. He signed a 6/36 contract with a 25.7M posting fee. Not cheap but he was potentially a long term option for the team vs guys that were stopgaps (aside from Sanchez and Greinke).

It was pretty clear that Gibson was starting in the minors. The part that nobody predicted was that he would be inconsistent and get lit up so much in AAA and then absolutely suck once called up. Pretty much everyone expected Diamond to regress from last year but he should have been a consistent 4ish ERA member of the rotation. Combined with Worley the Twins had 3 guys that should have provided an uninspiring but solid rotation. Instead those three have been dreadfully awful. It would be interested to go back and see who thought the Twins had an improved rotation and see if they are are also leading the 'Ryan screwed up' charge. I wouldn't consider myself a Ryan supporter but playing hindsight is pretty questionable. I also think people's expectations are completely out of line with reality. There are 20-30 GM's that are interested in adding low cost solid starters. Being critical of a GM when he didn't sign one out of a whopping three options is just silly. It's even sillier when the guy that he did sign has basically performed just as well as that trio. of course it would be great to have been perfect but that's impossible.

I have actually wondered what the limits of the Dodger's budget is. They have tried to show that it is limitless but every team (even the Yankees) has a limit. Additionally the Dodgers have a 200M extension with Kershaw on the horizon and they will be maxing out the luxury tax penalties.

The Twins would be very lucky to have Arrieta since he would have been a downgrade to this year's rotation. FWIW - I have liked Arrieta for awhile.

They would be more than marginal upgrades. but it's only hindsight that would have told someone that Diamond, Worley and Gibson would have been dreadfully awful this year. Some on this board were up in arms that Gibson should have been up opening day and would be an #2/3 as early as this year. I was pretty optimistic about Gibson this year myself.

Ryan had a pretty lackluster offseason improving the rotation but the failure of the rotation this season is due to Diamond being absolutely awful, Worley being absolutely awful and Gibson becoming the 2nd coming of Liam Hendriks. It doesn't help that Hendriks has continued to be Hendriks. Ironically the move that everyone was critical of (Correia) has been as successful as reasonably possible. I think it's awesome that many are championing the likes of Colon, Feldman, saunders and Villanueva in hindsight.

I would have no problem buying out his age 32 (and even his age 33 season) this offseason. Of course it depends on how much he is asking for.

It all depends on what the asking price ends up being. The Twins need to keep their premium prospects (Buxton, Sano, Rosario, Meyer, Berrios, Stewart, Arcia and a couple others) and rely on them for the turnaround. After that they can fill holes with the rest of their prospect stash (it's pretty considerable) or get supporting pieces in FA. if they can get norris for a reasonable prospect package and it would be even better if they can buy out a year or two of FA with him.

They still need more than one and next offseason all we will hear that the money for pitcher X is ridiculous (and it will be ridiculous). My interest is limited to a smaller package than the guessed at asking price. I don't think other teams will bid anywhere close to Berrios and kepler. I wouldn't be surprised if you could land him for mays and walker. Or a substitute harrison into the deal.

you are acting like it's a guarantee that they can get even one guy as good as Norris in FA. they need more than 1 and the Twins don't need to only rely on prospects to turn it around. They can't part with their top prospects but they have a lot of depth at lower levels.

I completely disagree. Norris is nothing like Pelfrey or pretty much any of the pitchers the Twins currently have. I don't have a problem with the Twins parting with some of their nice but not great lower level prospects for a guy like Norris. I have a big problem with the Twins making a Myers/Shields type trade. If you want a #1/2 guy then it will cost a guy like Sano/buxton.

why not try both? Next year's FA market is also not that great. Garza, Lincecum, Hughes, JJohnson, Hudson and ESantana look like the best guys to me. These are not the kind of guys you get into a bidding war for. Maybe they can land one but it's definitely not a guarantee.

This all depends on what the asking price is. His velocity and swstr% rates are still pretty good so I think his K/9 can rebound some. Gallardo on the other hand is a mess. His velocity is still down considerably and his swstr% is much lower and dropping.

Are you saying that we don't need to worry about the arbitration clock and FA with Colabello?

it is funny that Cain ended up sucking but Gausman was the trade that was obviously a message. I don't care if you are trading for Zach and Drake Britton you don't trade the 1st overall pick in the minors draft. He's just being a bitch and now he's lying. He's a pile of ****.

The salary thing gets written about but teams are cooling on Justin Morneau because he isn't very good.

I thought it was time to throw a little gasoline onto the CoC fire.

22 teams have an affiliate in the NWL or the NYPL short season leagues and both are considered to be more advanced than the appy league (or the pioneer league). That is where the older prospects should go but the Twins don't have an affiliate. It's also a place that the Twins could push an elite prospect up to or have a young prospect (Kepler) go instead of repeating appy league.

Brett Lee CG 1ER 10K 1BB - that's just domination Walker - 2HR's Rosario now hitting .318

The Twins shouldn't commit to finding a SS of the future. They should commit to finding a future stud with a possible top 5 pick. I don't care what position they play.

The Royals lost 90 games last year. I hope the Twins aren't in the same position in a couple of years. Shields wasn't going to be worth 15+ wins for the team. And for the record I would be upset if the Twins traded Sano or Buxton for a Shields level pitcher (2 yrs to FA). If this was a 90 win team then I would feel differently.

If they don't then trading for one starter won't matter.

Are you talking about the team that is 14 games under .500 with the 5th worst record? This team will rebound but it will be when the prospects start contributing. Trading them away is not a good idea.

Gallardo is a complete mess right now. Velocity and K's are way down.