beckmt

I agree, you have to add 2-3 new arms(with higher ceilings) then the Twins currently have(not counting Romero, who seems to have the biggest upside). I would be very surprised if the Twins won more that 75 games this year, even with Dozier. To me the difference between 70 and 75 does not exist. The only chance to compete is to add, pitching, pitching and more pitching. Twins have enough position players to compete at this level, and you can use money to fill holes next offseason. Price of pitching is only going up and if Twins cannot get it cheap, they will not be able to contend by 2018-2019, with Pohlad giving 1-2 massive contracts to top of the line starters(very unlikely in my opinion).

Because you win with pitching and defense. You only need decent hitting(which the Twins could well already have). De Leon will slot in above most of the current Twins prospects, but he looks to slot in as a #3 starter with the upside of a #2, if all breaks right. Twins need some lower level pitching prospects with #1 to #2 promise to make this work, plus a couple of lottery tickets. Holdup from what I'm reading in the thread in the upside of those lottery tickets, with the Dodgers more inclined to give AAAA upside type and the Twins wanting 1 more decent(but lower prospect)

If the Twins are given a good return, by all means move Santana. The difference between 68 and 75 victories is not an issue of matter to me. The club going forward into 2018 and the talent level are the issue. You cannot raise the long term talent level without selling assets.

Deleon is not the type of headliner you would give up Dozier for. You need a prospect with a higher upside, hence Alvarez. The issue as I read it seems to be more the 3 or 4 person with prospect vs org filler being the issue.

I agree in that I only want high end veterans. More of the filler types are not needed here.

I would strongly disagree on the below average players in regard to position players. Pitching staff is another issue. Looked at the links and I agree one of the two(Greene or Faedo) stand out, but spring can change a lot. Would lean toward Greene because he has ace potential, but he is only high school. Faedo will need to show he is fully healthy this spring, but I feel he has a chance to be here in 2019, Greene is more of the 2020 or 2021 type. And the Twins need ace types now.

Do not see the Twins adding rotation pitching from FA. Would like to see them sign at least one quality piece(Feliz, Holland or someone of that ilk) to help fill out the bullpen. Price might be too high, but you get what you pay for. Would be very afraid of starting the season with just about what we had at the end of last season.

I agree, it makes too much sense. Given May's back issues, I also have him starting, so that somewhat limits my options. Feel if Santigo or Gibson have good springs, and some of the younger starters look like they should be in Minnesota, that you would trade at least Gibson for some lottery tickets. This will be more true is Dozier is traded. Maybe you package Rosario and 2 of these starters to the Rockies for one of the non Parra outfielders(this would probably be light, but may be a starting point, since at least Gibson seems to fit what the Rockies need).

Deleon is being offered because the Dodger front office does not regard him as an integral part of the Dodgers plan. Dodgers in the worst case. may be have give up more assets if injuries play as big a role as last year. Most of the Twins higher starting pitchers will be in AA to start this year, and we will know by mid to end of season where upcoming pitchers stand. Gonsalves, Stewart, Rosario, Thrope, and others all project into close to the #3 types. Only Romaro (who will also start in AA, has a higher ceiling, and I may have missed a couple of more #3 types. Assuming that most of these pitchers will be working on fastball command(something missing in the past), they may be a year later getting here, but hope the results will be better. This is why the Twins need extra pitching help over the next couple of years, and the need decreases after 2018. Plus the Twins have 3 draft picks in the top 40. Trading Dozier only makes sense in the starting in 2019 the Twins will have a window of opportunity(may be as early as 2018) to be a competitive team for the American League championship. Rays who have the other second base option might want Bellinger straight up or with additional lottery tickets for their second baseman. Rays are considered to have excess pitching and even if you could convince them to take Deleon, it would only mean you have increase the risk of a better starting pitcher showing up in the national league with a team that is as good to close to as good as yours. Detroit would want prospects for Kinsler and you would have to extend him (which means you double his salary as luxury tax) and he is at a much higher rate over the next two years as Dozier. Doing nothing means if you decide you have to make the move after the season start means the price will be higher than now, because teams will know you are desperate. And waiting for more teams to fall out of the race to lower the price, also means your chances may be gone before you can make the deal. National League has Cubs, Nationals, Mets, Giants, Cardinals clubs as having decent chances to make the playoffs, Then you have the Diamondbacks, Colorado(which has a good young nucleus), and Atlanta who could make noise. Standing still is not an option for the Dodgers..

Package White Sox got for Sale was better than the Dodgers had to offer. This goes to almost all fans valueing their prospects better than they are. DeLeon's top upside is a #2, many experts see him as a #3. Twins already have a system with a number of #3 prospects There is no reason to trade Dozier with getting one pitcher that has a huge upside. This may hold up the deal, but there is no reason to trade Dozier for other teams spare parts. DeLeon has no clear path to the major leagues in the next year or two. That is why he is being offered in this deal. Twins need a better prospect than DeLeon, plus a lottery ticket to make this work. It could be the second piece, but what I am reading, it seems to be the value of the third piece that is the holdup at this time.

Couple of the names stood out. Did not see any burning desire for any of the top players. High School pitchers seem to be the top of the list and am not sure I want to spend 5 years developing one. There did not seem to be any sure #1 pitchers in this draft. Take the best player and hope. Twins should get 3 or 4 good ones at least.

Nice article Seth. Given the fact that the last 4 years picks are not here yet, is not too surprising. Some of those pitchers, most have had surgery will tell the tale over the next few years. Many will be busts, but that is the nature of the game. Biggest issue I have with the Twins was failure to spend over the international budget, sort of knowing it would be changed in this CBA. Twins need a high impact pitcher or two and I do not yet see that type in the system. We shall see.

From MLBtraderumors reports I have seen, Texas wants too much for him. I would look at it if it were a buy low(Gibson and lottery ticket) opportunity, but Texas seems to want much more for him(like in the range of still an elite prospect), which he may no longer be. I would kick the tires, but not expect price to be in my range.

St. Louis has a surplus of infielders at this time. Do not see them buying Dozier for prospects. That also is not the St. Louis way. It is more of moving a player a year too early than a year too late. Pittsburg with 2 upper level starters close to the majors might have more of a reason to make a deal, division is very difficult and their window will be closing in the next 2-3 years.

With an average of 5 WAR over the last 3 years, you are talking a well above average major league player, if not a star. If he was a pitcher the price would be much higher. If you look at the trades made this winter, you have to give up decent assets if not overpay to get a player like Dozier. Offer from Dodgers is close to fair, I feel it may be a bit low and that could be the holdup. All De Leon projects is to be maybe another Santana, maybe a little better. Twins need at least one solid prospect that has #1 or #2 stuff to make this deal.

That is a relatively low price for a major league outfielder who produces at an average to above average offense and an average defense. Would not touch him, because of the clubhouse issues, but still if Dodgers want to move that contract to upgrade prospects, could see taking a flyer on it.

Yes, Thanks. Maybe some good will come of this for O'Rourke. For the Twins, there never can be a enough pitching competition.

Am concerned that a club like the White Sox get involved, especially if Dodgers fail to sign Justin Turner. Frasier becomes a possibility(as does Plouffe) and if they offer up Quintana could pick off most of the rest of the Dodgers farm system(getting much more than the Twins are looking at). They could also add Robertson to the deal(Robertson and Fraser would net them most of what the Twins are looking at. Quintana could take a fair amount of everything left. Hope the Twins are not overplaying their hand.

Link does not work for me.

According to a post at MLBtraderumors, trading for Quintana was suggested for the Dodgers, package headlined by De Leon and others. Do not know if this is serious or planted, but Quintana would be quite a get and probably would take Dozier out of the picture for the Dodgers, as they would look at cheaper/shorter options or force the Twins to take more A type players for Dozier than what is given now.

Team will not get significantly better without trading Dozier. He will not be as good as he is now when the Twins are good again, and he blocks a decent prospect from playing his best position. You might win by holding Dozier until the trading deadline and hope a contender has a big hole at 2nd base, but usually there are several teams out of it at that time and teams have options of players to buy, so will not overpay(especially for position players, pitchers are another group).

Think your payroll is higher than it will be. Do not see the Davis signing as Grossman, while not as good a defender or baserunner will do just as good or better against lefties for much less money. Feliz or like(Holland) will cost that much(but if you are going to spend the money would rather risk Holland). Hughes will be on the team at that price whether you like it or not as will Perkins(Perkins is a much better chance for and injury settlement if he cannot recover). Think payroll will be ideal between $90 and $100 million, just guessing budget. If you can pickup pitchers almost would rather non tender Gibson and use the spot to run tryouts for 2018. Do not see Gibson being much better. Notice Kinztler is also gone, do not have an issue with this, but leaves bullpen with little veteran leadership.

Dave, Despite usually being on opposite sides, this has been interesting and am hoping it works out. Twins need as much pitching as possible. On another note, it may well show what Falvey and Levine think of the pitching in the Twins farm system from an outside perspective. If that is the case this is not good.

Holdup is Dodgers and Twins looking for Dave's sources to fire their asses, before anouncing 'NO DEAL'

This probably means the Dodger trade is going down