DaveW
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Why hasn't Berrios been called back up?
DaveW replied to Foghorn Leghorn's topic in Minnesota Twins Talk
IALTO! -
Why hasn't Berrios been called back up?
DaveW replied to Foghorn Leghorn's topic in Minnesota Twins Talk
I'm convinced the twins are the only franchise that would let this happen. Nolasco and Milone getting starts over him right now is pure comedy. -
a. To be fair it was pretty clear that Ryan was given the option of "when" to leave, and chances are he wasn't going to stick around anyways. b.This is an article about Terry Ryan the person, it's perfectly reasonable to discuss how "nice" he was and what people thought of him. Listen, I wanted Ryan gone as much as anyone, but I'm not going to pretend he didn't do ANY good here, this was a damn fun team to watch for several years during his first run as GM for this club, clearly he was/is a well respected baseball man, and had some nice success that first run as well. c. Irrelevant. d. I think that is a little inflammatory and harsh, Ryan had nothing to do with the contraction and hardly was tanking. e. There are plenty of pieces that have discussed that, along with 1,000 threads on Twinsdaily, I really think you missed the point of this article. There is a human side to the game... it's not like this was published by fangraphs. f. Then why read it?
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The view of Niagara falls is better on the NY side anyways (however the town is really crappy/nothing to do) the Canadian side area is "nicer" but insanely touristy. I wouldn't recommend more than half a day around the "falls" If you find the passport, I would recommend staying at Niagara on the lake instead, you are close to the falls, but on a beautiful lake in a nice (non touristy) town, with plenty of outdoor activities and great wineries. In Cooperstown make sure you check out Ommegang brewery if you are a beer fan. Enjoy!
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As far as FIP goes and some of its limitations: Nolasco 2014-2016 (Minnesota Twins): 4.21 FIP, 5.55 ERA, 1.49 WHIP. Nolasco career: 3.80 FIP 4.60 ERA (89 ERA+), 1.39 WHIP Is Nolasco just the unluckiest pitcher in baseball (the past 10 years) or is he just not that good of a pitcher?
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What it really all comes down to is results: Shelby Miller: 25 years old. 644 IP 3.64 ERA, 7.4 k/9 3.4 BB/9, 1.291 WHIP 104 ERA+ Kyle Gibson: 28 years old 496 IP 4.46 ERA, 6.0 k/9 3.0 BB/9, 1.358 WHIP 90 ERA+ Results (the thing that actually matters when it comes to wins and losses) wise it's not even close. Gibson gets a tiny edge in BB/9, but is far behind significantly in everything else. We can say NL vs AL all day long, but it should be noted that Gibson pitches in the central, which is a weak division overall and has been for some time. Miller pitched in the NL East and NL central prior to moving to the NL West this year, all three of those divisions have been much more competitive/better than the AL central. Even with the difference between AL/NL it doesn't make up the 14 points in ERA lplus and the ERA that is a hair below a run more a game. 644 and 496 IP are NOT small sample sizes. This isn't just a case of "one has had good luck and one has had bad luck"
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Again, that wasn't even the crux of my issue with his comparison, my issue was why ignore Miller and his VERY stellar rookie season in 2013 in order to fit his narrative? Does that not count because he was a rookie? Seriously Brock, go back and look at the original thread and stop making it out to me comparing Miller's 2016 to Gibson's rookie season. My issue was it was conveniently to completely IGNORE a season in which Miller pitched very well and Gibson pitched terribly. Seriously, I have now said that and explained in several times in this thread, you misconstruing what I was getting at is trolling and annoying, drop it Brock. Also Miller is 25, the same age that Gibson was when Gibson "made" the show. Gibson wasn't exactly some "rushed" prospect by the time he made the majors anyways.
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You keep bringing up xFIP, FIP while completely ignoring or dismissing ERA 100% I don't understand why people refuse to look at ALL the stats when it comes to pitchers, instead of just picking out FIP or xFIP (both of which have flaws, just like ERA, WAR etc)
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I think it just comes down to practice/repetitions. As Brock mentioned, he has only had like 80 games at 3rd base in the last 3 years. Consistency will come with time IMO. It's a shame we wasted a half season (in a wasted year) in having him not getting those reps at 3rd....hopefully we see better consistency by the end of the year.
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Joe Nathan also is on the Cubs, he looked good in his one appearance so far: 1 IP, 3 k's The Cubs could have a pretty amazing bullpen set up for the playoffs: Chapman Rodon Cahill Nathan Strop Wood Wow!
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I never said to discount his 2016, I said all along it has been a poor year. I said if you are going to take away Gibsons 2013 (which was poor) then you might as well take away Millers poor 2016 year.
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Comparing Miller to Pelfrey, Correia, Worley, Marquis and Hernandez is completely irrelevant in this case, we knew all of those pitchers were hot garbage the minute the Twins got them (Worley was a bit of a wild card) Nolasco appeared to be decent, but we know how that worked out, I personally put Nolasco's struggles on him and him alone. Pretty sure none of those guys had two full seasons with below a 3.07 ERA as well.
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Plouffe isn't going to net us anything of real value starting pitching wise IMO, of course miracles could happen? I just don't see it. I wouldn't trade Dozier for Miller, if they are going to trade Dozier I would want quite a bit more in exchange. (I think Dozier has a ton of trade value IMO as a top 5 or 6 2nd baseman in the majors on a good contract)
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First off: Gibson is 28, not 27. They are both born in October, so they are pretty much exactly 3 years difference age wise. Additionally, Miller has had two full seasons so far with under a 3.07 ERA, that is better than mid rotation, that is a solid #2 for any team (if he can duplicate that moving forward that is, which is the big question)
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I'm not cherry picking stats. I just found it odd that you didn't mention what was an effective 2013 season for Miller. The fact is, even with FIP etc it's Miller that has had two seasons with better than average FIP, Gibson has had zero (but 3 seasons with literally exactly average FIP) Thus the upside is better. (and keep in mind, Miller is ONLY 25, Gibson didn't even pitch in the majors until he was 25)
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Chapman is so much more than a "proven" closer. He is one of the most lethal bullpen weapons the game has seen in some time. He very easily could be the difference for the Cubs in winning it all vs not winning it all.
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It's a good trade for both clubs. The Cubs are a favorite to win it all this year, you gotta go for it when you have the shot. Plus they can always resign Chapman after the season (but will have quite a bit of competition), they also have a ton of up the middle youngsters, so while they gave up a good prospect, it's not going to kill them. The Yankees desperately need to get younger, this was a good first step. Trading Miller and Beltran for more young talent would be some great next steps.
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I am very aware on how FIP, xFIp etc work. FIP, xFIP just like ERA aren't perfect stats, the fact is he managed to outperform his xFIP and FIP almost every year (by significant margins) either he was the luckiest pitcher in the league, had the best defenses in the league or the truth lies somewhere between ERA and FIP. And like I mentioned, he is only 25, is a couple seasons removed from a top ten prospect and has had two seasons with above 3.4 WAR (bRef) the upside certainly remains.
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Shelby Miller has 69 innings this year, yet suddenly you want to include those bad innings (but not Gibsons bad innings)
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I have never understood why some people love WAR for pitchers so much. Pitchers pitch, it's not like non pitchers where WAR brings in fielding, running, arm etc as well. You can pretty much tell how well a pitcher is doing by looking at ALL of the following ERA (ERA+) FIP, xFIP, IP, k/9, BB/9, HR/9 BABIP
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Yikes, I think you are over-rating this teams system (and ability to develop/draft/etc) good pitchers by a huge margin.
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Except that Miller has had some pretty damn good seasons! While being 3 years younger!
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If you want to assume that Miller is suddenly a horrible pitcher, than go ahead and do that. I think most people would agree that one half of a bad season on a terrible ball team (surrounded by 3 good years) (a player who is only 25) isn't suddenly a "horrible pitcher" or likely to stay as one.
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Very convenient that you leave Miller and his good 2013 season out of this comparison, and Gibson and his terrible 2013 season out of it. LOL If you want to take away a players bad year, then at least take Miller's out as well. If not, come on.
