mlhouse

Not really sure why Astudillo wasn't given more of a shot. He certainly proved his versatility when he had his brief cup of coffee with the Twins earlier. I get it, he wasn't a good pitcher but why not give him more than 19 PAs to see what a guy like that can do.

Why not opening day 2019? Add Gordon, Luis Arreaz, LeMonte Wade and Rooker to that lineup too. Here are the reasons why. 1. They would not be the first 20 or 21 year olds to play in the major leagues. I haven't seen any evidence were the Twins minor league development makes that much of a difference. Make the commitment to these young players even if that means lots of losses, lots of errors and lots of strikeouts. 2. It isn't as if the team has a high quality players at the positions. THe middle infield is wide open with the trading of Dozier. Move Lewis to SS and Gordon to 2B, with Polanco and Arreaz the utility guys. Replace Morrison with Rooker. Wade is the 4th OF, and Kirilloff would play all of the OF spots as well as DH. 3. Let this new wave of current FO picks mix in with the younger guys we have on the roster now, get a manager that will be willing to work with the young guys and has the patience to do so, and let this group take their lumps for a bit. Maybe 2019 would be a 100 loss season like 1982 or the recent ones we had. But, my guess is starting late 2019 and into 2020 we would see the elements of growth in many of these players. Not all of them will be successful, but learning this now means we can adjust with new prospects from the minors and then finding veteran players to fill the remaining gaps.

The reason why this is such a lengthy rebuild is because for that past 8 seasons the Twins have not taken rebuilding seriously. They thought that they could get guys like Jamey Carroll and Phil Hughes as lower cost (at least to the MLB free agent market place) and those insertions around Mauer and Mourneau would be good enough to keep a mediocre team on the field. Even at the start of the rebuilding they were reluctant to switch from their conservative development approach and instead plugged in a myriad of players signed as cheap free agents or waiver wire pickups. Jamey Carroll, Clete Thomas, Matt Carson, Chris Collabello, Wilkin Ramirez, Doug Bernier, Eric Fryer, Josh Willingham, Ryan Doumit, Kurt Suzuki, Sam Fuld, Kendrys Morales, Jordan Schaffer, Shane Robinson, Logan Schafer, Chris Giminez. That is just a list of the position players. The Twins have tried to short cut their way just to get a team that didn't suck. Their actions, continuing into the current FO, demonstrated they had no interest in doing what it took to make this team into anythong close to a team that can compete for a World Series. And, as I have pointed out, the other thing that is really troubling is that despite this very conservative approach to minor league development, the Twins players that do make it to the major leagues arrive requiring significant adjustment time and often lacking some basic baseball fundamentals (that the manager has not interest in dealing with). The ownership, front office, and some of the fans needs to drop the notion that this team is even close to being ready to compete. We need to tear it apart again but try to develop the team with a more committed approach to that rebuild. We will lose games, but hopefully we can sort out the talent that we have and then have some skill (and luck) to fill in the pieces that are needed to make this a quality, competitive team.

And the reason they do not trade for many guys at all is that they simply will not spend the money.

] MAJOR!!!!!

And your point is what? That the Twins have not been sellers at the deadline? Please. Even when the Twins had a decent lineup, one good enough to win divisional titles in the weakest division anyways, the Twins ownership was unwilling to spend the money to fill the roster weaknesses that prevented the team from being true competitors. Ten to fifteen million dollars more in payroll could have meant the difference between getting swept in the first round of the playoffs every time versus having the roster that had a chance to go all the way. I get that everyone thinks that the Twins ownership will suddenly become these big spenders that are willing to put the money out there to become true competitors, but they are not. And never will be.

When was the last time the Twins made a move were they traded multiple prospects for an established player? I think the answer will be never. The Twins reduce the value of their prospects because they will never pick up the tab for high cost veterans and eventually many of them reach the level of their incompetence and they are worth nothing. I think the FO did a reasonable job in these moves. The sheer volume of them demonstrates that they got everything they could get. I don't think that any of these trades are going to bring back a Kevin Tapani and Rick Aguilera like the Viola trade did, but hopefully out of the multitudes of minor league players they can eventually get at least one guy that can contribute.

The time for Garver was the beginning of last season with a commitment to have him catch at least half the games. Garver and several other guys demonstrate that there is an adjustment process. So, instead of getting these adjustments over and done with, this organization stretches out this process, often dumping them back to Rochester for the slightest mistake or bad performance. They have moved guys like Busenitz up and down that there is no way this guy has had a chance to establish any type of routine, and the psychoogical impact on the players cannot be underestimated as the team demonstrates a complete lack of faith in their own prospects. It would be different if the Twins had stellar alternatives. But they don't. So why not get these guys in the lineup. Arguing that they have a better chance with Bobby WIlson catching versus Mitch Garver is ludicrous no matter what the "DRS" differential. IN the end, Garver has the potential to be a contributor 2-3 years down the road. Wilson does not. It should not even be a question.

Jeffers and Williams smash Rookie level minor league pitching because putting their prospects in levels of competition below their development level is what the Twins do. Players like these guys are wasting their time in Rookie ball. If you have ever been to an Appy game there is a major and easy way to distinghish pitchers: those that can change speeds and those that cannot. And in that league those ptichers are few and far between. Advanced college hitters like these guys are completely wasting their time playing Rookie ball.

Good god, I am so thankful that Taylor Motter is back up with the big league team. THE SEASON IS SAVED.

This is the Minnesota Twins Front Office bobos response. All of these claims about there is only 40 roster spots, and we were in a playoff "race" last season is ridiculous. First, we were an 85 win team that snuck into the last wildcard spot in a year were other teams were down, then got blown out in the one game playoff. Second, if 40 man roster spots are so sacrosanct why did this team have the roster space to give innings to guys like Dillon Gee, Buddy Boshers, Craig Breslow, Nik Turley, Adam WIlk, Drew Rucinski, Tim Melville, Nk Tepesch, and Chris Heston. Nine pitchers came in and nine pitchers went out. The FO made these choices, they were not random events. They preferred players waived by other organizations to giving our own prospects guys a shot, and what prospects they did give opportunities, they had zero patience with them. I am on record that this was the wrong approach last year. I get we are long suffering Twins fans so just the one game playoff felt ridiculously good. But, it came at a cost of properly rebuilding this team. Every year of rebuilding should be treated as a plan, not some ad hoc attempt to get to 500, and we threw out a year of that rebuilding. Guys like Luke Bard, John Curtiss, and Alan Busenitz should have been given extensive opprotunites, win or lose. But this year reality has hit back and for every step forward this organization makes, it takes two steps back.

Slegers is a guy you just have to give a shot to even if it is a long one. Until you actually know, you cannot be sure how a player will perform. One of the critical things of rebuilding is giving players an opportunity and finding the ones that will not work out. Remember, in 1982, the Twins starting CF was Jim Eisenreich. He had to be given his shot, and although it was unfortunate he could not work out here, his initial failure opened the door for Kirby. If the Twins don't rapidly advance Jimmy through their system, jumping him from a 1981 low A Wisconsin Rapids player, his 2nd minor league season, to the 1982 opening day starter in CF, they don't advance Puckett as quickly behind him (Kirby played in rookie ball in his 82 draft year, A+ in 83, AAA to majors in 1984).

While I do not advocate this trade, the unfortunate thing is that the Twins have been so poorly managed throughout these past years that we have absolute black holes at certain positions. And catcher is one of them, this despite having $24.5 million invested in the position with Jason Casto's contract. Mitch Garver is the "brightest" Twins catching prospect, but he is a 27 year old rookie that doesn't seem to have management's confidence to do anything beyond being a backup utility catcher. After Garver, you have to go to A+ league to find a catcher that is even a minor prospect in Ben Rortvedt, a 2016 2nd round draft pick. But Rortvedt has a minor league career .630 OPS versus Garver's .793. I get that the Twins FO apparently prefers catchers who cannot hit at all but Rortvedt's minor league stats do not prdict a catcher that can hit major league pitching. So, the best approach to this matter is the rebuilding approach. Don't trade your prospects to fill a "hole". Bring up Romero, Gordon, Rooker, Wade, Bard, Curtiss, Gonslaves, and maybe a couple of guys deeper in the minors like Arreaz. Let this team lose games, gain experience, and develop at teh major league level. Then, in another couple of years, the team might develop into a competitive team and you can fill int he holes from there. Think the 1991 Twins filling in the catcher position with Brian Harper. Unfortunately, the fluke 2017 season has led this team down the wrong path, and even before that no one has been willing to tear this team down to its foundation to properly rebuilding, preferring the patchwork approach that has led us to this point today. As I have said, many times in this forum, the longer we delay taking the rebuilding medicine, the longer it will take before we have a competitive team.

Maybe there would be an argument if the minor league system was developed ahead of him. It isn't. Here is another argument. The Twins minor league development system sucks. We have these guys like Sano and Buxton, obviously talented baseball players. Romero and Berrios, obviously talented pitchers. They smoke throw the minor league system. Blast it away. Then they struggle when they reach the Twins. You can have your own theories. But look at the Twins roster right now. Look at the posiitonal players. Look at anyone under the age of 30 and was developed in the Twins system: Rosario, Kepler, Garver, Polanco. Add the two previously mentioned that are back in the minors because of their struggles. If this group, only Rosario can be considered a player the team will certainly move forward with. Kepler has shown flashes, but that is it. Garver has been up and down at the plate but he is a 27 year old rookie. Polanco has shown flashes, but after an 80 games suspension who is counting on him. After all of this losing and all of the near the top of the draft draft picks, the sensational minor league perforamnces of Sano, Buxton, and Kepler along with the the other named players (and others who have fallen off the board along the way) we have basically nothing and projected to lose another 90+ games this season. Like I said, you can have your theories but here is mine. The Twins development concept is flawed because ti is too conservative. It doesn't challenge our minor league players enough. We start them at too low of levels. We move them very slowly through the system. They dominate competition that isn;t the level they should be developing against. They are not learning fundamentals and they are not learning how to adjust. This process is doing two things. First, it is turning out flawed prospects that have major struggles when they get to the big leagues. Maybe some will right their approach (Rosario and Berrios have). But the struggles are very real and significant. Second, it is completely eliminating the trade value of our prospects. I get that the Twins will probably never trade a prospect away. Apparently we need a stocked minor league system. But the methodical approach of the Twins removes the upside of the player (to see an example consider Carlos Gomez). Anyways, if you cannot see that this team has some major issues. We need to understand this and have the a rebuilding approach. This emans young players like Rooker get advanced even over their heads. You patiently work with them on the major league level. You need a manger and staff willing to do this.

Sometimes you need to stop being afraid that a player is going to be successful. Bring him up. Have him slug the damn ball, and if he does pay him.

Yeah, it would mean moving a valuable guy like Taylor Motter off the 40 man.

The Twins FO needs to stop pretending this team is a contender and start developing a realistic plan to rebuild this franchise from its rubble. From that plan they can decide whether Kyle Gibson is going to have a chance to be part of it. I think, however, that the rebuilding plan lead time is such that Gibson should be traded. He is 30 years old, will be a UFA in 2020, and even next year will cost substantially more than the $4.2 million he earned this last season. I just don't see him being viable when this team might be ready to compete. And, while some may be sick and tired of hearing this, as long as this FO continues to put guys like Motter and BObby Wilson in the lineup, that rebuild is pushed further and further into the future.

So, a team like the LA Dodgers, a team in the 2012 playoff hunt can bring up a 21 year old 2nd round draft pick to the major league roster in their draft year? Then as a 22 year old they can count on him to be a set up man with 76 appearances? Amazing.

There isn't anything that can be done with this team to make it competitive unless you think last seasons fluke meant we were competitive. And, as I at least alluded to, if our pitching is slightly better than league average, it is because we have stocked it full of 35+ year old relievers who after thsi season probably will not be available. I get that we can keep up the mediocrity by stocking it back up with 35+ year old arms to limp through another season. But, this gets us no where. This team is not going to "FREE AGENT" itself to success. The same holds for the .190 hitting DH who was just that kind of signing to begin with and finding a catcher that can actually hit. Following YOUR ideas (and the FO's too) is what is really quitting. Just plugging mediocrity after mediocrity in the lineup and hope your fans don't notice. The NON QUITTING option is to get the prospects up in place of these short term veterans. Take the lumps now. Find out who can play and who cannot. Keep the guys who can and fill in the holes. Maybe Buxton and Sano are guys who can. SO get them back up and if Sano still demonstrates he doesn't care, move on. It worked in 1982 and this is the approach this team needs to take now.

What are you even talking about?????? THE FIRST SIGN? You must be joking. Except for two fluke seasons, this team has sucked big time for almost a decade. In the previous 7 seasons this team has lost 92 or more games 5 times. We are playing at a 90 loss level this season. And, as I have pointed out, the entire roster sucks. We don't even have players that have any value to "Sell, sell, sell". And with all of this flailing, if you look at our farm system, the pantry is virtually bare. We are calling up guys like Bobby Wilson and Taylor Motter (combined .118 batting average). WHen you go on a streak and lose 99, 96, 96, 92, Fluke, 103, fluke, and 90+ pace the first signs should have been 5 years ago. And, the as I have pointed out, one of the real problems with this situation is that with all of that losing this team dradted at the top of each round in the draft. Unfortunately, the real prescription is more losing. Get Nick Gordon up to the big leagues. Let him play some SS and 2B at the MLB level and develop. Get LeMonte Ward up and see if he can bring his professional hitting approach to the big league level and perhaps we will have a true leadoff guy with a bit of pop. Get Willians Astudillo up. I don't know if he can catch, but at least he is not an embarrasement at the plate. Give him a chance. I would even argue that they really need ot look at Brent Rooker and I would strongly consider Luis Arraez all the way from A+ who started slow coming back from a knee injury (.132 in April, .241 in May, and .442 in June) but now is pounding the ball like he did in previous years. Instead of sending Romero down, give him the ball and let him pitch at the MLB level and work on those things he needs to work on. Stephen Gonslaves should be up with the team too. Instead of signing a 38 year old Matt Belisle, give John Curtiss a shot. If he is worse than Belisle's 12.60 ERA then we have a good understanding going forward he really isn't going to be a long term contributor to this team, jsut like how 38 (Belisle), 35 (Duke) and 41 year old(Rodney) pitchers are also not going to be long term contributors. Instead of these guys, get Luke Bard a last shot and let Gaberiel Moya get some experience in the set up role. If these guys fail, they fail. Big deal. The Belisles and Wilsons are failing too. Losing and failure are information to guide the team forward. If Bard isn't good enough, then you know and can plan going forward with that information. But anyone who wants to go see this team play when JJ Berrios is not pitching must like punishment.

Sorry, but if you cannot see that this team isn't any good and that their minor league system isn't any good, then I don't think you have much of an opinion. Lets look at facts the way they really are rather than the way you want them to be. 1. Our vaunted position prospects really were not as good as we thought they were. Buxton and Sano are not even in the major leagues anymore. Rosario is a good hitter (with limited OBP). Kepler? So, in the lineup we have perhaps 3 major league players under the age of 30: Rosario, Escobar, and perhaps Kepler. Mauer when healthy is an adequate MLB and Dozier when he isn't slumping. So, in year 8 of our rebuild we have 3 positional players that we have developed. 2. WHile I think our pitching has been adequate, the ONLY pitcher on our current 13 man pitching staff under the age of 27 is the star of the rotation, JJ Berrios. Gibson is an adequate mid-rotation guy going forward, but what else do they have in the rotation? They seem to be scared to have any young guys like Romero or Gonslaves up with the big league team because ? 3. Same with their relief staff. We have a core of players that are at the end of their careers: Rodney, Belisle, Duke over the age of 35. Niot a single reliever in the bullpen is under the age of 27, and those are the only two relievers (Hildenberger and Rogers) that were developed within the Twins minor league system. ALl of these years and all of those draft picks spent on pitchers, we have older young players in the bullpen to show for it. 4. Unfortunately, the only players that have any real trade value on this team are Escobar, Rosario, Berrio, I can see trading Escobar, trading high but then he will be a free agent at the end of the year so that mitigates his value. If you traded Rosario or Berrios that would really be surrendering. Maybe Trevor HIldenberger has some trade value??? But again, this isn't trading Cliff Lee for a boatload of high end prospects, this is trading for a guy deep in some teams minor leagues that is a fringe prospect. 5. AS I have posted in another thread, if you look into the Twins minor league system it only gets uglier. Outside of Gordon, the AAA team either has pitchers the FO has no desire to call up or garbage. Even in AA there isn't much talent, and the talent deeper in the minors is very young although I think the time to bring them up is fast approaching. Do you want to lose games with Taylor MOoter and Bobby Wilson playing or try Nick Gordon, Luis Arraez and develop them as major league hitters as we lose.

Since 2014 Maurer's OPS has been 732, 718, 752, 801, 717. Ok numbers but nothing to justify paying him $23 million and playing first base. I think Joe should retire after this season. This opens up first base to Sano which is the best defensive position for him. And, from what I have heard (I know people who know him), that is what he is leaning to.

Yeah, this loving FO puts guys like Taylor Motter, Matt Belisle and Bobby WIlson in the lineup. I am sure they can find the next 29 year old waiver wire washout from another team to plug into the lineup so this team can "compete" and keep fan interest. Regardless, I totally disagree with the approach. Sending him back to the minors to dominate some more does him zero good. The management has to be willing to work with young players and their flaws. Frank Viola, with a lot less minor league experience than Romero pitched his rookie half season with over a 5 ERA, then the Twins trotted him out for 210 innings in his second MLB season with a 5.49 ERA. IF you have to limit his innings, limit his innings. But he just isnt going to learn anything more in the minors. Let him take his lumps. WOrk it out of his system. And in the end he will be the pitcher he will be. But, the Twins managemnet just isn;t willing to do this.

While you certainly can, why? Keep Romero up at the MLB level and let him work on his game there. We have no reason to send him down. PUT HIM ON THE MOUND. HAND HIM THE BALL. And let him pitch. If his ERA is 8 who cares. No matter how people want to pretend, this is a terrible baseball team that needs to rebuild.

Summer in Ft Myers is stinking hot. Although our temps are "only" in the mid-90s right now, the humidity is unbearable.