mlhouse

Need to congratulate the guy who predicted this earlier. I thought he was crazy. I can see passing on Hunter Greene if you want to take a more advanced college arm, start him in AA at the lowest and move him rapidly to the MLB level, even by the end of this season. I can even see passing on Greene and taking McKay and rushing him as a positon player to the major leagues. But a HS SS/OF? A guy that will start in Rookie + ball at the highest and is at least 4 years out?

Sure, I guess. But lets let these young guys get those games out of their system sooner, rather than later. I get that we want to pretend we are a contending team this year and making the playoffs might seem to be something special after all of that futility. But to postpone the proper development of this rebuild will just keep the system going, like it has for all fo these years.

They are not good enough to win it this year unless you think winning a "division" crown were the 2nd place finisher is a 500 team. Squeaking out a division crown with a totally mediocre record is not much to shoot for and we have seen what that meant in the past. We are on a streak of 9 consecutive playoff losses, and three consecutive playoff sweeps. In our previous Central Division glory, our playoff record is 3-19, with six consecutive playoff series losses and we have won 1,1,1,0,0,0 in those series. What our ownership demonstrated in that run is that when spending another $10-20 million would have made them real competitors they were not going to do it. Next, on attendance, right now the Twins attendance is worse than last year at 22,414 per game. This is what years of mismanagement will deliver for you. So, using attendance as a reason to make or not make baseball moves is a poor argument. While I advocate trading Santana, and Dozier, if the deal is right that isn't the biggest issue right now. Those are just baseball moves that could be seen as Selling HIgh, rather than waiting for the team to be out of contention and then Selling Low. What is more important is clearlng out the deadwood and having the courage to bring up the younger prospects in the system. Hughes and Santiago need to be put out to pasture, traded if they can be moved. I think the same for Kyle GIbson too. I would trade Craig Breslow to a team looking for a left hander out of the bullpen. I bring up Stephen Gonsalves to take the 4th rotation spot. If I draft Kyle Wright, he is on the major league roster from the day he signs otherwise draft Hunter Greene. I get Trevor Hilderberger up to replace Matt Belisle and David Hurlbut to replace Breslow. What will probably happen is just what happened when we finally recalled J.J. Berrios. They will be better performers than the crap we had.

I only trade Santana if the deal is right, and the same for Dozier. And the same for the other veterans. At teh same time, I don't care about record or postseason. If the deal is available, we should do it and we need to continue to get our prospects up into the rotation/bullpen. The timing of this is now. Waiting only pushes the major league intiation of the critical pitchers for this staff down the road when our positional players will finally, finally, finally be fully ready to play.

Smoke and mirrors.... when you have a run differential of -24 you are playing with luck. So why pretend? Our veteran starting rotation sucks outside of Santana. Our veteran relief corp sucks outside on perhaps Kintzler and Breslow, both into their 30's. Duffy and Rogers have been reasonable but we all know their inconsistencies. The time to move on from Hector Santiago, Phil Hughes, and Kyle Gibson is now even though you are selling low, and an argument can be made to sell high on Ervin Santana, Craig Breslow, and Brandon KIntzler. Perhaps even Brian Dozier.

The only way I select Kyle Wright is if I am going to fast track the fast track to the MLB. If I am running the Twins he is literally on the major league roster the day after he signs. But, if Wright is going to be developed the Twins way: Elizabethton with maybe a Cedar Rapids late season call up. Cedar Rapids. Ft Myers with maybe a Chattanooga call up. Chattanooga. Then have every 28-29 year old waiver wire pitcher in the league be signed, bounce a couple of years between Rochester and Minnesota...... Then I go with Hunter Greene.

This team should be focused on the out years, not trying to contend for a worthless division title just because the division is so weak. While that comment might suggest I favor trading a 34 year old pitcher, I think any trade of Santana is deal specific, and any trade needs to bring back a solid prospect that is relatively major league ready. One reason I say this is that I think Ervin is the type of pitcher that even at 34 years of age probably has two solid years left, which he is under contract for. So, if the team puts it together 2 years from now and becomes a true contender he could potentially be a part of that. Regardless, I think the Twins need to get Gonsalves up as soon as possible and run with a rotation of Berrios, Meija, Gonsalves, Santana if not traded, and whatever waiver wire pickup they insist upon signing. I also think the time has come to bring up Hildenberger, Busenitz, and John Curtiss for the bullpen. Throw them into the fire. The time has come.

I think you take Hunter Greene. All of the draft picks have risk so you take the absolute best upside. The only issue I have with him is then you dont leave him in the minor leagues for 8 more seasons. Move him rapidly through the system with a target date to MLB when he is 22.

I read the article. You can make whatever arguments you want, but it is without a doubt that Mauer is diminished. It has been 4 seasons since he last had a batting average above 300, a OBP above 400, a slugging pct above 400, and a OPS above 800. And maybe that is too high of a standard to hold him too. But, at the same time he is a first baseman, not a catcher or in reality any other important position in the defensive spectrum, and at his age and injury issues first base is the only position he can really play. As a first baseman his offensive statistics are terrible. He has not hit more than 11 home runs since 2009, which other than the 13 he hit is 2006 were the only years above 11 HRs. His overall power numbers poor, less than 30% of his hits are for extra bases and it has again been 4 years since he has 30% extra base hits. More importantly, he takes up a position the Twins really need to get playing time for players taht should be up in the major leagues. I get the Twins are not going to eat a $23 million contract and having Mauer on the team helps a bit at the gate and is an all-time Twins player. But there is no denying the team would have one more leg up on rebuilding without him. He has no trade value so there really are limited options. Let him finish out his contract and then let the team move on from a local sports hero. I hope he only plays for the Twins and I think all of the money the Twins have paid him in the twighlight of his career can buy that from him.

Who cares. Stats, success, failure. Mauer no longer is evaluated he is only paid. He has one more year on his deal and as long as he is healthy the Twins will trot him out on the field. Then the Twins will move on. I hope Mauer retires after 2018 rather than continuing on in diminished form.

Any reason given why they gave up on Michael Cederoth? He was a 3rd round pick in 2014, pitched last season in CR with a 2.45 ERA and 61 strikeouts in 47.2 innings. He essentially gave up a year of his minor league development in the Twins convert college relievers into starter strategy.

I think any claims about the Twins pitching staff being elevated are a bit exaggerated. Phil Hughes 5.23 ERA, Kyle Gibson 8.20, Meija 5.79. Hector Santiago 3.80 ERA is a reasonable surprise, but is almost exactly his career 3.84 ERA. Amongst the starting rotation only Ervin Santana who had a career start to the season is doing better than their career average. In the pen, the pretty much the same story. I will buy the anecdotal evidenence that the catchers are working well with the pitchers but I think most of that is the pitching coaches job and I also doubt it makes up for these two players hitting 200 or below.

What in the F are the Twins doing? Seriously. Of course this is one of their perfect "prospect", some journeyman of journeyman, with a career 4.15 AAA ERA. Why give this guy a shot when you are not willing to give Trevor Hildenberger a shot? Or David Hurlbut, a long time Twins minor league player that is sporting a 1.59 ERA at Rochester? Much less JJ Berrios who is the Twins best prospect and has dominated at AAA level now for 2 years. WHAT IS THE FASCINATION WITH OTHER TEAMS REJECTS?????????? Who is calling the shots???? Is the similarity to previous moves indicate that Molitor is calling the shots? This team is NOT going to get better if it keeps plugging in these non-entities without future while holding their own prospects back. I have seen David Hurlbut pitch several times in Ft Myers. I don't think he has the stuff to be a MLB pitcher but I think that the Twins should run these guys through and give them a chance. If you think this team is a contender over the full season you are fooling yourself. We have way too many holes to fill. Delusions have already set this rebuild back 4 years, and continued delusions will keep this level of futility going for many more.

He is so bad that I am sure the Twins will find a way to get him right up on the major league pitching staff.

Having watched him at Ft Myers, Stewarts has very good control of his fastball and throws it 92-94 during the game. As I noted after one of his outings in this forum, his problem is that when he throws his slider it just doesn't have any downward movement, and just stays in the same plane. Lower level hitters were able to get this ball in play, higher level hitters will be able to really hurt him. THis season Kohl is having problems throwing strikes, 22 walks in 24 innings which is very high total for him. I think the Twins need to completely rework his slider. I think they have ignored it because they wanted to avoid elbow issues, but at AA he needs to get this pitch moving. He needs to change his release point to get the change in plane movement a sldier needs. I also think they need to work on his change. Because Steward played football his baseball skills are not as advanced as other players in similar draft positions. He was drafted almost purely on projection and is a type of prospect that I advocate taking slower than otheres. I think the Twins should take him out of AA and put him back to EST, work on his slider and change, then get him back to AA.

Oh no....Tepesch is obviously the most qualified. We can work with him so he can be a nice pitcher with an ERA in the 6.00 range. We can't bring up anyone the coaches actually have to work with.

A few more years of AAA and JJ Berrios will be ready.

Yeah, in 12 years we will get Greene up to the majors.

They arent limited to just one way, surely you jest. As far as the everyday players, yep. But lets look at that a little deeper. Two of the everyday players are 30 years or older: Dozier and Mauer. So, while I agree with you that they are "home grown" neither is really going to play a part of the long term future of the team at a competitive level. Mauer is part of the early 2000 team that was decent and Dozier has wasted most of his career being poorly developed by the Twins and then on their losing, long term rebuild? We agree on that? So, that leaves us with Sano, Polanco, Rosario, Kepler, Buxton, Santana, Vargas. Over the long run we know Danny Santana isn't going to be here. He had a fluke rookie season and since then has followed up performance that isn't MLB standards and he is 26 years old and showing no signs of getting better. The Twins keep him up because they just refuse to bring up prospects and would rather plug a mediocrity at best hitting .100 than take a risk. Vargas, I would put in the same boat. He hit with decent power over a short stint last season but the Twins obviously have zero confidence in him. NOt a total write off yet, but with his defensive limitations it is hard to see him long term. Rosario, I can see him filling a Randy Bush/Gene Larkin like platoon role with better defense. That can make him valuable in the long run and he still has some potential. Buxton? Already covered and it is starting to look like the writing is on the wall to me. I think Kepler, Polanco, and Sano have good potential yet. So, 3.5 guys with a total wild card in Buxton........not much to speak of. And, while I understand it is out of the ordinary, no one has refuted the concept that bringing up Buxton right up from A+ ball when he was at his minor league peak would not have been a good idea. Again, what was the downside? We would have lost more games since 2013? We would not have the opportunity to watch Clete Thomas, Shane Robinson, Sam Fuld, Jordan Schaefer, and Logan Schafer play gloriously in center field? That Buxton would have missed out on the fine development he obviusly had in his last minor league appearances that would have made his major league adjustment so much easier? I think the confidence he had as a player would have carried over and he would have adjusted. After that, he was frustrated because injuries derailed him and he did not hit MLB succesfully, the Twins have changed his swing over and over, and the fact is he is probably never going to develop. Even with that in mind, if we would have brought him up in 2013, and he would have failed, we would be in a solid position knowing he isn't going to work out and would already be developing the next CF while the team was losing. Now, 4 years later, we are still wondering. Like I have said, one reason a rebuilding team should "rush" their prospects is that some, even the most touted, do not work out. If you move them up slowly, that just pushes that recockning down the line when you need the players that can play to get competive (that is unless you are willing to live with many more years of futility).

Wow, not sure if anything can convince you then. I point out that the Twins pitching staff, despite multiple year of futility and high draft picks, has 4 marginal pitchers on the MLB roster? That is shrug? Go back to the last good season the Twins franchis had, 2011. 4 out 5 of their starting rotation was essentially homegrown (counting Liriano). Of their relief pitchers with the most appearances, 3 out of 5 were homegrown and this was before Perkins emerged as the closer. While there are a myriad of ways of building baseball teams, because of many factors (but mostly because our owners have always been too cheap), the Twins are limited to one real way: develop the players in house. The reason why this team hasn't been rebuilt is because they have failed in developing players.

Gibson, and Buxton, represent the total dysfunction of this team in developing their players. If you look at their current pitching staff, just Gibson, Taylor Rogers, Tyler Duffy, and Mike Tonkin were developed within the Twins organization. That is it. So, in the 6 years of futility and 90+ losses that gave us top of the order draft picks, the Twins have 4 marginal MLB pitchers drafted by the organization on the roster. FOUR. And it aint like any of these guys was rushed to the majors (Gibson was pushed, by the Twins standards a bit but that was because he had injuries). They all moved through the system basically stepwise. Buxton is a different case and it is baffling why he isn't performing even at a replacement level. But, I am going to tell you the mistake the Twins made with Buxton. They should have moved him up to the major leagues when he was 19 years old. The major league team in 2013 was a 96 loss team so bringing up a minor league player wasn't going to cost them anything and they had 322 PA available for a no-body like Clete Thomas. Bringing Buxton up at the height of his confidence would have probably changed this story. I have been saying this all along and Buxton is an exhibit of WHAT IS THE DOWN SIDE. We would have lost more than 96 games? We would have been deprived of the joy of watching Clete Thomas play CF? That Buxton would have shown up ready for the major leagues???? Really. At the MLB level this guy looks like he has never played the game before. What good did those extra games in AA and AAA do for the kid? Not a damn thing.

I am a critic of how the TWins manage their minor league prospects and LeBlanc is just an example. I really do not know what his true upside is as a professional baseball pitcher. He seems like a pitch to contact guy with a 6.40 K/9 through A+ and probably does have a limited future. But, he is a college draft pick and is not 25 years old pitching in A+ ball. The Twins management of him is typical. He pitched short season in Rookie+ in Elizabethton in his draft year. His first full professional season he pitched A- at Cedar Rapids, mainly as a reliever with a 3.03 ERA. Then, in typical Twins style they send him to a "prove it" start in 2016 again at Cedar Rapids before moving to A+ for the remainder with a 2 game coffee stop in AA (with a 0.00 ERA). Now it is back to A+ to start the season with another "prove it" start that he is passing in flying colors. So, if they follow this pattern he will be moved up to AA in midseason. Start 2018 to prove again AA and maybe AAA again. THen prove it in AAA some more. Get called up, notpitch well, bounce up and down. By the time he will even be looking at a chance in the majors he will be 27-28 years old. This process isn't getting the prospects up to the major leagues fast enough and it would be different if the prospects that our system finally gets to the majors was ready, but their arent. So it is obvious that our approach to developing players and rebuilding our major league team is not working yet we continue the same old anyways.

Hague is obviously the only one the Twins would be interested in calling up since he is a magical 31 years old. ANyone under 30 simply hasn't proven enough in the minors.

When I watch him I see Dwight Gooden.

Short term? SOme of these guys will be geriatrics in the short term. What is the point of this roster? To lose another 100 games but not get an inning of MLB development time for any of the pitching prospects? I was hoping new general management would change this process to expedite the rebuild, but the ages of the players they have selected is frightenng. Our bullpen consists of arms over the age of 30, Kintzler 32, Belisle 36, Breshaw 36, and marginal arms like Pressly 28, Rogers 26, Tonkin 27. O'Rourke 29 and Duffey 26. We only have one pitcher that is could even be considered to be a prospect in Adalberto Mejia and arguably Rule 5 pick Justin Haley remaining with the big league team. What is of continued interest to me is the continuous preference of this team to prefer players developed in other organizations to their own in that Berrios and Chargois have much better minor league credentials than these two guys. But out of 13 pitchers on the staff heading north, these two are the only ones under the age of 27. Think about that. ANd, it is continued with their preference at backup catcher, taking a 34 year old journeyman over their own catching prospect, Mitch Garver. But, at the rate they are developing their players Garver will be in their target age 30+ by the time they give him a shot. This is ridiculouos and it is silly. It is one thing to lose with inexperienced prospect. It is another to lose with no-name journeymen that arent even fun to watch.