I feel like you guys were arguing two different things, but those two things are close enough to each other that you guys couldn't quite distinguish between them a) John was arguing that Ownership isn't putting it's best foot forward (Rays being the prime example). And that counts as "not trying" b.) Aaron was arguing that team management (GM, CBO, etc) was still actively trying to win as many games as possible given the restrictions from above. And that does count as trying. The Rays GM (or whatever his title is) clearly wants to win as many games as possible, but is forced to do some things that hinder that. Whereas the M's and Diamondbacks GMs are actively making their team worse (albeit for a long-term reason)