NEWS: Twins Agree to Sign Infielder Ty France

7 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Providing specific names are always great for these discussions but the reason I refuse to discuss specific names and instead focus on the process is.

Except this line makes the discussion moot and that's why this thread and the other one have circled.  If your argument basically boils down to "The team should be developing these relatively low end players (or high end ones for that matter) so free agency isn't required" - you will have a 100% agreement on that on this board.  

But that's a counterfactual.  It's a hypothetical.  One we may all agree ought to be the case, but when you're filling out a roster and making decisions about how to win games, no longer becomes a valid argument.  It's like saying, after the game, that if we had just hit a homerun to go up 3-2 we'd have won!  Yeah, of course.....but we didn't.  That's not the reality of what we're dealing with.

Which then requires you to have a real conversation about who the players in question really are and what they do, in reality, for your chances to win games.  If Harrison Bader blocks out Matt Wallner (as happened last year) that's a horrifically stupid decision by the team.  But signing Harrison Bader because you've failed to develop a requisite talent your roster needs....is just resource management/gap filling.  

We'd all like to have a different, better, cheaper option.  We don't.  And that is the realm within which the conversation should be happening, not counter-factuals.

16 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

Except this line makes the discussion moot and that's why this thread and the other one have circled.  If your argument basically boils down to "The team should be developing these relatively low end players (or high end ones for that matter) so free agency isn't required" - you will have a 100% agreement on that on this board.  

But that's a counterfactual.  It's a hypothetical.  One we may all agree ought to be the case, but when you're filling out a roster and making decisions about how to win games, no longer becomes a valid argument.  It's like saying, after the game, that if we had just hit a homerun to go up 3-2 we'd have won!  Yeah, of course.....but we didn't.  That's not the reality of what we're dealing with.

Which then requires you to have a real conversation about who the players in question really are and what they do, in reality, for your chances to win games.  If Harrison Bader blocks out Matt Wallner (as happened last year) that's a horrifically stupid decision by the team.  But signing Harrison Bader because you've failed to develop a requisite talent your roster needs....is just resource management/gap filling.  

We'd all like to have a different, better, cheaper option.  We don't.  And that is the realm within which the conversation should be happening, not counter-factuals.

Facts for 2025 have not arrived yet. It's all hypothetical. Everything is hypothetical.  Counter-Factual? What's factual? Harrison Bader might OPS+ 110 this year. Even if he doesn't match his 2021 offensive output... Harrison Bader just might be exactly what the doctor ordered. I'm not going to argue about Bader specifically. It's the system that requires Bader that is driving these types of roster decisions. 

As long as anyone believes and posts with all the conviction that they can muster that they KNOW what Kiersay will do if given a chance... hypothetically of course. The discussion isn't going to circle... it's going to crater. It won't get off the ground. OK... forget about Kiersay and what you KNOW he will do. Anybody else? Anybody? No? Nobody? Well... we need to pay 6.25 million I guess? 

We can't fill these spaces internally? The system doesn't have it. Why not? Can't we go outside the system. The front office has been in place for quite some time. Cleveland is filling these spaces internally. 17 Pre-Arb players will break camp with Cleveland. Detroit is filling these spaces internally. Nothing but pre-arb and they shot right past us after selling at the deadline. We can't? Cleveland spent 2024 with Tyler Freeman, Angel Martinez and Daniel Schneeman in CF. OPS of .626, 635 and .671 OPS respectively. I know those numbers are not going to win any arguments. And Cleveland addressed those numbers at the deadline like you should. They traded for Lane Thomas and his .738 Nationals OPS at the deadline. Lane took over CF for the stretch run produced a .657 OPS just like everybody else was doing before he arrived. Cleveland still won the AL Central and arrived at the AL Championship series with a bunch of pre-arb players surrounding Jose Ramirez, Josh Naylor, Bibee and Lane Thomas. The Twins? Well apparently The Twins will have to decide between Bader and nobody capable in the current Twins system. Why is that? 

Are we better off with 1 bigger free agent or 3 smaller ones? It's a legit debate. Well... it's hard to have the 1 bigger free agent discussion when those inclined to discuss are already casting off Pre-Arb player A and Pre-Arb player B that will be required to go the 1 bigger route. And they don't know... I don't know but specific players for Pre-Arb A and Pre-Arb B are non-starters so... Well... Let's pay 6.25 million and let's trade Vazquez and Paddack to some GM who doesn't know why we want to trade Vazquez and Paddack in the first place.  

And of course... Bader isn't here just to play CF when Buxton hits the IL again. Bader is also here to keep Wallner from facing lefties. France if he makes the roster is going to do the same thing... play the same role. France is here to keep us dependent on this type of player next year. We have two left handers who are for sure to make this roster. Maybe 3 with Julien... and what were the Twins looking for? They are looking for right Handed hitters. What did they sign? Right Handed Hitters. We got too many of them left handed guys. Wallner shielded from left handers because he might OPS in the .600 25% of the time if given a chance... means Wallner in the same role in 2026... which means... we will be looking for the same low level right handed free agent next year who is just so happens to be coming off a season with an OPS in the .600's,,, 100% of the time.   

How do we break this yearly dependence on this type of low level free agent? The only thing I can think of is. Stop being dependent upon them. How do stop being dependent on them.

The answer is... Martin sucks I guess. 

3 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Which 1 big free agent are you getting for $10.5M? 

Max Kepler? 

 

Juan Soto

This specific player thing works out great! 

5 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Facts for 2025 have not arrived yet. It's all hypothetical. Everything is hypothetical. 

With all due respect, and I appreciate your post, but this only furthers my point: you've defined the terms of the discussion in a way that doesn't allow for any meaningful discussion. 

The FO has to evaluate what they project the season to produce and where their roster needs to be supplemented.  Your desire that they have an ever ready supply of AAA players to do this is grand and wonderful, but not realistic.  Rendering the discussion down to a bunch of what-ifs only makes continuing it a pointless exercise.