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    Lineup of Twins Roster Hopefuls Beats Tigers, 4-0


    John  Bonnes

    The Twins' lineup was the most interesting part of Wednesday’s 4-0 road victory over the Detroit Tigers.

    Image courtesy of © Chris Tilley-Imagn Images

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    Virtually the entire lineup was filled with hopefuls; guys who could find themselves playing with the Twins or with St. Paul’s Saints for most of the season. It included eight players that are essentially batting for three roster spots.

    Leading off was Edouard Julien at first base, where he was playing for the first time this spring. He’s only played there five times in his MLB career, and only twenty-eight times in his minor league career. But manager Rocco Baldelli said before the game that Julien is likely to find himself playing first base nearly as much as he plays second base this spring. Ultimately, Julien’s bat is going to make or break his spot on the roster, but having some positional flexibility would provide a left-handed hitting option to pair with Ty France and Jose Miranda at first base.

    Batting second was Mickey Gasper, playing second base. Gasper has only played second base fourteen times: six times last year with the Red Sox, and eight times this winter with Criollos de Cagua in the Puerto Rican Winter League. He’s never played it in the minors, playing mostly first base. During the regular season, Baldelli would probably have Gasper and Julien switching spots. But this spring, the Twins need to see if Gasper can handle second base, since that flexibility might be needed for a bench role.

    Batting third was catcher Jair Camargo. The only thing that has kept Camargo off the Twins' roster the last two years is that Ryan Jeffers and Christian Vazquez have been unnaturally healthy for catchers, starting all 324 games over the last two seasons. He’s an IL-stint (or a cost-cutting trade) away from making the roster and seeing significant playing time. 

    The cleanup hitter was Miranda, who is most likely to find himself playing for the Twins. “But Jose is going to be in a position where he’s going to go out there, earn his at-bats, earn his opportunities like many other guys on our roster.” Those aren’t my words, they’re Baldelli’s when asked about Miranda’s role last week. Miranda played third base in this game, a position the Twins would like to have Royce Lewis get 600 at-bats, if he can stay healthy.

    When talking about earning at-bats, Baldelli made it clear he wasn’t just talking about Miranda. “You could probably turn to two or three or four other players who have done some good things at the major-league level and ask a similar question and it would made sense,” he continued.

    Which brings us to the fifth batter today, Brooks Lee, who was playing shortstop. Like almost everyone above him in this lineup, that’s not the position the Twins would like to see him play - he’s probably competing for second base - but he needs to get time there in case something happens to Carlos Correa.

    Batting sixth was Austin Martin, playing center field. Martin didn’t look great in center field last year, and the Twins should have both Byron Buxton and Harrison Bader above him on the depth chart. But the Twins are convinced Martin can be an excellent defensive outfielder if he gets more time there, so we’ll see him there a lot this spring. His more likely role during the season would be a corner outfield spot, perhaps starting versus left-handed pitchers over left-handed hitting Matt Wallner or Trevor Larnach.

    The eighth batter, left-handed hitting DaShawn Keirsey Jr, is somewhat blocked on the roster by the same four players as Martin, which is too bad because he’s had a pretty outstanding 24+ hours. Tuesday, he made a fantastic catch against the right field wall to preserve a tie versus the Yankees and then followed it with a game-winning hit. Wednesday, he made a diving catch in the right-field gap and started the Twins scoring with a home run to left field. 

    Finally, in between those two, batting seventh, was Mike Ford , getting at-bats at designated hitter. Like Julien, the left-handed hitting first baseman would also need to find his way on the roster as a left-handed hitting option for France or Miranda. 

    This was a lineup full of players that are guaranteed nothing this year. They almost all played positions where they are being tested, or where the team hopes they won’t have to play. They also traveled 2.5 hours each way on a bus to get at-bats to face Tarik Skubal, the reigning AL Cy Young winner who showed off a 100+ mph pitch in the first inning. But it is also a lineup filled with promise, much of it young promise, that could determine the fate of the Twins offense this year. 

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    1 hour ago, arby58 said:

    Except he wasn't a 'non-CF rookie.' Look at the numbers - he's played CF at each level since college and through the minor and major leagues. He may not be very good at it (the statistics with the Twins seem to bear that out), but it is not accurate to say he was not experienced at the position.

    I didn't say that he didn't play CF, I distinctly said he played all over which includes stints at CF, as I stated before as the team needs. But that doesn't qualify him as a CF prospect. A CF prospect is someone they fix at CF & they groom them for that position. that is not Martin. Again I'll remind you that CF is a very difficult position & he hasn't been prepared to play there. & let me remind you that this started from defending myself from your claim that I had vitriol for Julien which I assured you I didn't.

    42 minutes ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

    You are correct, some players need to be able to settle in to a position. I believe if Martin were able to do that very thing that he could be a solid ML player, for me that position would be 2B or LF. I remember back in the day players that were allowed this liberty. I'll name a couple from Twins past. Gaetti, Gagne and Viola. These guys took a lot of time and patience to develop into the players they would become. I give much credit to their Manager for doing this, mostly Billy Gardner. These three struggled at times. Stats said that they should not be at ML. But people that watched them day in and day out could see their futures. Many on here would discard them just as they would Martin. I saw something in Martin when he came up in April that was apparent in the players I just mentioned. I don't know if Martin will succeed like Gaetti, Viola and Gagne did, mostly because I don't think he will receive the same chance that they did. I also think some will applaud if he doesn't.  Just some of my thoughts and opinions.

    Career bWAR through age 25 season - 

    Gaetti: 7.8

    Gagne: 4.6

    Viola: 5.4 

    Martin: -1.0

    While it's true that those players struggled a little bit when they first came up, it's not really comparable. They were all 21-22 years old, ages when they ARE still a bit green of thumb and growing as players, and in the cases of Gaetti and Gagne, they only struggled in initial cups of coffee, showing real value as soon as they received significant playing time.

    Austin Martin was a 25 year old rookie, given significant playing time, and didn't excel at anything. There's no reason to believe he has any real upside. The only reason he's even in the majors is because of his resume as a 1st round draft pick and notable piece in a big trade.  

    1 hour ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

    I don't know if Martin will succeed like Gaetti, Viola and Gagne did, mostly because I don't think he will receive the same chance that they did.

    Gagne was in the majors at age 21, fulltime by age 23, Viola was in the majors at age 22 and got CY votes at age 24, Gaetti was in the majors at age 22 and fulltime by age 23, Martin is way closer to Kielty and Lew Ford then any of those three.

    1 hour ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

    I don't know if Martin will succeed like Gaetti, Viola and Gagne did, mostly because I don't think he will receive the same chance that they did.

    Gagne was in the majors at age 21, fulltime by age 23, Viola was in the majors at age 22 and got CY votes at age 24, Gaetti was in the majors at age 22 and fulltime by age 23, Martin is way closer to Kielty, Lew Ford, Danny Valencia then any of those three.

    2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

    Lf, cf, 2b. Mostly 2b and LF. 

    I think we might actually agree that he is a mediocre defender in any position and therefore more valuable if he can cover multiple positions off the bench.  You avoided the assertion he does not have the bat for LF.  Should they have played him there as a primary position?  When I have seen him live he actually looked pretty bad in LF.  He is a poor option in CF.  I agree with 2B but to disregard how many SSs have been converted to 2B is a convenient argument.   What percentage of players who start out in the minors end up at another position?  Where do most of the end up?  2B.

    21 hours ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

    You are correct, some players need to be able to settle in to a position. I believe if Martin were able to do that very thing that he could be a solid ML player, for me that position would be 2B or LF. I remember back in the day players that were allowed this liberty. I'll name a couple from Twins past. Gaetti, Gagne and Viola. These guys took a lot of time and patience to develop into the players they would become. I give much credit to their Manager for doing this, mostly Billy Gardner. These three struggled at times. Stats said that they should not be at ML. But people that watched them day in and day out could see their futures. Many on here would discard them just as they would Martin. I saw something in Martin when he came up in April that was apparent in the players I just mentioned. I don't know if Martin will succeed like Gaetti, Viola and Gagne did, mostly because I don't think he will receive the same chance that they did. I also think some will applaud if he doesn't.  Just some of my thoughts and opinions.

    Things like character, heart or spunk are intangibles. Some fans reject anything that they can't fit into a formula by stats or age. They try to put intangibles into some formula, is ridiculous. Martin has the character, heart & spunk that these players possess. Don't let these guys get you down, keep up the good work.

    1 hour ago, Doctor Gast said:

    Things like character, heart or spunk are intangibles. Some fans reject anything that they can't fit into a formula by stats or age. They try to put intangibles into some formula, is ridiculous. Martin has the character, heart & spunk that these players possess. Don't let these guys get you down, keep up the good work.

    Thanks Doctor. I will keep on keeping on. Everybody has their opinions. That's awesome. I have mine. But one thing I do that is different is in that I look at players as people. I don't look at them as stats on a spreadsheet. They are humans and each of us as humans have something inside that sets us apart from others. Yes stats are fun. But they only tell a portion of who a player is. So when I saw something in Martin in April it had nothing to do with stats. It was something you don't see come out in every player. Martin has an intangible that can't be measured by a stat. Not that I don't think he is capable of putting up some decent stats. I could care less that he was a first round pick. I could also be wrong in that he ever makes it in the ML, I'm wrong often. But I am not wrong in the spark that I saw in him that not every player possess's.

    3 hours ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

    Thanks Doctor. I will keep on keeping on. Everybody has their opinions. That's awesome. I have mine. But one thing I do that is different is in that I look at players as people. I don't look at them as stats on a spreadsheet. They are humans and each of us as humans have something inside that sets us apart from others. Yes stats are fun. But they only tell a portion of who a player is. So when I saw something in Martin in April it had nothing to do with stats. It was something you don't see come out in every player. Martin has an intangible that can't be measured by a stat. Not that I don't think he is capable of putting up some decent stats. I could care less that he was a first round pick. I could also be wrong in that he ever makes it in the ML, I'm wrong often. But I am not wrong in the spark that I saw in him that not every player possess's.

    Well said! Many look at MLB as they do Fantasy Baseball. MLB is real people, full of intangibles & underlying conditions that stats can't simulate. To people who only look at stats, "Get real"

    6 hours ago, sweetmusicviola16 said:

    Thanks Doctor. I will keep on keeping on. Everybody has their opinions. That's awesome. I have mine. But one thing I do that is different is in that I look at players as people. I don't look at them as stats on a spreadsheet. They are humans and each of us as humans have something inside that sets us apart from others. Yes stats are fun. But they only tell a portion of who a player is. So when I saw something in Martin in April it had nothing to do with stats. It was something you don't see come out in every player. Martin has an intangible that can't be measured by a stat. Not that I don't think he is capable of putting up some decent stats. I could care less that he was a first round pick. I could also be wrong in that he ever makes it in the ML, I'm wrong often. But I am not wrong in the spark that I saw in him that not every player possess's.

    I love this post

    I never want to lose sight of what you are saying. 

    The majority of players from Aaron Judge to the 20th round pick in the last draft is putting the work in to make a dream come true. 

     




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