Ryan on Nolasco for 2015

[USAFChief]

The last time a clear consensus "ace" was on the board when we drafted was 2013, and we drafted him (Kohl Stewart). The time before that was back in 2001, and they screwed up and took Mauer over Prior.

I don't think you'll see much complaining about not drafting pitchers they didnt have a shot at.

 

I think the issue is repeatedly targeting lower ceiling, but higher floor "strike throwers" with limited velocity in draft after draft. Targeting "pitch to contact" types when they did venture into the FA market. "Aces" don't only come from the top 3 picks in a draft.

 

The Twins themselves have said they've been trying to add velocity to the system over the past couple drafts...a sort of backhanded admission they've neglected to do so in the past.

[Kwak]

First of all, I think it was pretty clear I was talking draft AND international signings.

 

And it's not simply a matter of drafting "clear consensus aces" with the top picks of the first round -- that's something a monkey could do (or even lower, a fan on a message board ).

 

It's drafting (or signing) anyone, ever, that can even flash that kind of potential anywhere in pro ball.  We're talking 20 years with Ryan/Smith at the helm, and I'm not sure if we ever signed a single Trevor May type during that time (4th rounder), very dominant A-ball season at young age rocketed him onto prospect rankings).  Bunch of college control guys, Garza easily the standout of the group (and of course we inexplicably traded him right away).  Maybe there were development issues at play too, but it's not like we had guys flash this stuff in A-ball and fail to advance -- we just haven't signed anybody who registered much in the lower minor league levels either.

 

Super-cheapness has been my go-to excuse, but there have been plenty of guys like Trevor May who haven't broke their team's budgets.  The good early returns on the 2012-2013 classes suggest the Twins wanted even more control on bidding for this type of talent, so hopefully we are better going forward.

Say for example Corey Kluber who was a 4th rounder selected by San Diego in '07? 

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Here's a list of Ten great pitchers (they happen to have the highest WAR this season): 

 

Clayton Kershaw - drafted 7th overall in 2006 (the Twins picked Parmelee with pick #20, right before Ian Kennedy)

Corey Kluber - Drafted in the 4th round in 2007 (Twins selected Ben Revere in Rd 1, C Danny Rams in Rd 2, OF Angel Morales in round 3, their last pick before Kluber was selected)

Chris Sale - drafted 13th Overall in 2010 (Twins picked RHP Alex Wimmers at #21, Taijuan Walker was selected by the Mariners a few picks later)

Felix Hernandez - international free agent signed in 2002 from Venezuela (Twins Drafted Denard Span in the first round, a few picks before Matt Cain went to the Giants - international signings by the Twins in 2002 included pitcher Alexander Smit from the Netherlands, infielder Luke Hughes from Australia and .. Jose Mijares from Venezuela)

Cole Hamels - Drafted 17th overall in 2002 (before the Twins picked)

Max Scherzer - drafted 11th overall in 2006 (see Kershaw)

Jake Arrieta - drafted in the 5th Round in 2007 (See Kluber, Twins 4th rd pick was 3B Reggie Williams)

Adam Wainwright - drafted 29th Overall by Atlanta in 2000 (Twins had the #2 overall pick and selected Adam Johnson)

Johhny Cueto - international free agent signed in 2004 from the Dominican Republic (Twins drafted Trevor Plouffe in Round 1, then Glen Perkins as a supplemental pick in Rd 1, one pick before Phil Hughes, and Kyle Waldrop, Matt Fox, and Jay Rainville was also a supplemental pick in Rd 1 for MN- Twins did not have big international signing of their own that year that I could locate.) 

Dallas Keuchel - Drafted in the 7th Round of the 2009 draft (Twins drafted Kyle Gibson in round 1, then added Pitchers Matt Bashore, Billy Bullock, and Ben Tootle; 3B Derek McCallum; Catchers Tobias Streich and Chris Herrmann before Keuchel was drafted).

 

Kershaw, Sale, King Felix, Hamels, Cueto and Keuchel are still with the team that originally drafted/signed them.