nicksaviking

I agree, it's probably not fair to the players themselves, but relievers are so fungible and inflammable that the bullpen really is an ever changing social experiment even for the best of teams. Trial and error, see who works and who doesn't, they all have options so it's not like they only have one shot to make it. And it's not like anyone should ever be worried about service time for a relief pitcher. For the most part these guys throw hard and have only two pitches, there shouldn't be half the concern about developing these guys like there would be for a starter and if these guys had a better repertoire or better mechanics, they'd be a starter. No need for a lot of tinkering.

The problem is, adding a guy isn't going to be pushing Fein/Tonkin/Pressly out, it will be pushing the higher upside but untested prospects out, who unlike Fein/Tonkin/Pressly have the stuff to be a late inning guy. The team just has to stop thinking that experience trumps strikeout ability when there's guys on 2nd and 3rd and no outs. They just have to.

The centerpieces for the off season bullpen plan were Casey Fein and Fernando Abad? I think most people are focusing on dates earlier than August 5th. The bullpen clearly needed help back in June.

I realize I'm asking for a philosophical change that emphasizes skill and upside over experience. I also realize philosophical changes are laboriously slow to occur in the real world.

Walks don't bother me all that much, if a guy can miss bats, a walk should be way more palatable than a hit despite how the broadcasters may sell it. But no way do I want Bastardo for three years, I don't want any reliever on a free agent contract for three years, I want to see the young hard throwers, and I want them now. I'm also not sorry for my impatience, I don't need a finished product, watching them improve is half the fun. I'll take Ray Searge on a three year deal though.

Because if he struggles making contact AND he can't lay off pitches, he'll never see a hittable pitch at the MLB level. Minor league pitchers will throw hittable pitches because A ) they're trying to prove they can throw strikes B ) they want to prove they can get power hitters out and C ) they're not as good as MLB pitchers at hitting their spots. If he's not seeing hittable pitches, his positive stats obviously aren't going to be there.

Way too many variables to figure out if that would work in an Internet forum, but it sounds like a fun outside-of-the-box idea to try. Clearly you've been thinking about this, nice one.

The Marlins might be a different story, but I still wouldn't call them tanking, if as Stark implies tanking is done for draft position. The MLB draft is just so uncertain, much more than the NFL, NBA and even NHL. I think the Marlins sold the farm, not for draft position but because they have a highly unethical owner who didn't care about winning, similarly the Mets the past several years didn't spend any money because they were using the team to pay off their Bernie Medoff penalties. I just don't buy that draft picks are the motivating factor. The Astros may have upset people, but they were giving a lot of young guys experience and trading vets for more young guys whom one would have to assume were intended to help the team in the future. Full disclosure, I desperately wanted the Twins to do this; start from the ground up and do what they did in the early part of this century getting rid of all the vets and letting the kids learn on the job.

I think tanking in baseball is hard, unless Stark thinks tanking and a ground up rebuild are the same thing. I mean no manager or player is going to throw a game intentionally so it really falls to the GM to "tank". Unless I'm missing something, these teams "tank" by getting rid of the established vets and replacing them with young players. While that may be a recipe for a lot of losses that year, isn't that also the same recipe teams have been using to win in the ensuing years? Including the Astros and Cubs last year? I think the high draft picks are a nice bonus, but I really think that there generally isn't anything devious about playing the young players; teams just want them to get experience in hopes that they'll be able to contribute to a winning team in the future. If teams truly were "tanking" than when the youngsters end up thriving and helping the teams win games, wouldn't those guys find themselves demoted or on the bench? Seriously, why would anyone fault the Phillies or Reds for not shelling out big bucks to free agents when they have no chance anyway? What's wrong with saving your money for when you're ready to compete? These were the quotes from the unnamed GM: The Brewers -- "I think Milwaukee is tanking. They're basically trying the Houston approach. They spent a lot of money trying to win. It didn't work. So now they're prepared to go through three or four years of losing, and going the Houston route." The Reds -- "They're in Houston mode, 100 percent. They tried it the other way. Now they're the biggest example of doing it this way. They're willing to do pretty much whatever has to be done." So Milwaukee and Cincinnati spent more money than they were comfortable spending trying to win, failed, and now the small marked teams are supposed to continue pushing on down the dead end path throwing money out the window? What the hell, this unnamed AL GM must be Brian Cashman, emphasis on Cash. If one approach doesn't work, it's only logical to try another one. Hint, hint Twins.

Like it or not, his rep is going to carry a lot of weight. Lot's of baseball people love the guy. Not sure if Barardino gets a vote though.... Plus Edmonds almost certainly was compared to the PED contemporaries, fair or not. Hunter likely will be compared with the post PED era, even if those guys had a lot of overlapping years. I don't think he gets in, but I'd bet good money he stays on the ballot quite a long time.

Yeah, Jimmy Haslem appears to be extraordinarily unethical and evil AND incompetent. NFL had a golden opportunity to kick him out during his Flying J criminal fraud accusations too.

The Tigers revamped rotation is starting to look like the Twins. Sanchez is the only one with plus strikeout ability and it's nowhere close to what it was at it's peak. Now they're bringing in Zimmerman and Norris, two more high contact arms. This rotation shouldn't scare anyone and it's quite possible by the end of the year it will be the worst in the AL Central. As for the offense, well stay away from Martinez and Cabrera, that's about it. **I say this knowing there's a fairly decent chance that this team signs Upton or Cespedes.

These guys I think http://blog.discoveryeducation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/WhaleWars2.png

This game was a lot more fun about five years ago when Mauer and Johan Santana looked like shoe-ins and Mornuea, Nathan and Hunter looked like they had an outside shot with a strong finishing kick to the end of their careers. At this point, I actually think Nathan has the best, albeit slim, chance of making it. But he'd have to come back healthy, put together a couple more very strong seasons and get 50 or so saves to pass Billy Wagner who along with Trevor Hoffman are contemporaries who got strong HOF consideration this past year.

I agree the guys in the minors weren't lighting the world on fire but we also should consider who they would have been replacing. The bullpen absolutely needed an influx of strikeouts. They had no problem calling up Hicks, Rosario, Santana, Buxton, Vargas, Polanco and Sano because their skill set and/or position was something the offense had to have at the moment and many of those guys could have used more seasoning. If the Twins need a SS, they aren't going to call up Adam Walker, even if he's the hottest hitter in Rochester. It still seems that the Twins will call up the pitcher who's pitching the best in Rochester, even if he's say Pat Dean but what they really need is a guy who can get a strikeout in a clutch situation.

Right, if Berrios got 30 starts and averaged 6 innings a start, he's only at 180 total and Ryan's deliberate pace calling up pitchers and Gardy and Molitor's history of giving young pitchers a much shorter leash than the vets say both the starts and innings are unlikely any way. Even if he got 5 starts in AAA averaging 8 innings per game, he'd still need 25 MLB starts averaging 6 innings each to get to 190 total. Only way he gets to 190 IP this year is if he stays in AAA the entire season.

I think Berardino does a pretty good job in all he does for what it's worth. However this indicates that at least in part, Berardino's ranking is influenced by what the Twins say about players. There's nothing inherently wrong with that but could certainly lead to league-wide inconsistency. Say the Astros had a clone of Stewart in their system and said that they WERE concerned about the plummeting K/9 despite his ability to be healthy. The identical players would be ranked differently simply because the Twins care less about strikeouts than the Astros do. Hypothetically. Also, I have so come to detest the sinker; stop pounding the zone with a pitch that gets weak contact and start pounding the zone with a pitch that gets no contact.

Hmm, I recognize this name from Berardin's chat: Mike Sixel (MN): Should I be worried that the Twins' starting DH isn't much of a prospect, or is that ranking not a ceiling one, but about control and other things? Or, are the other 6 so awesome that their starting DH can be ranked that low? Mike Berardino: Park turns 30 in July. He's relatively untested coming from the KBO. Many factors. I actually had him a little lower originally but the BA guys wanted to move him up. Interesting. A: Berardino does not appear to have final say over the list and B: He's much more skeptical than most of Park.

The Browns are a pretty recent move but people saw that coming as they were a bad team, run by bad owners and in a city that wouldn't build a new stadium and they had an agreement to get their team back even before the Ravens played a single game I believe. They also got to retain all the team history, records and name for the new franchise. It seems to me the Colts move was the most iconic in the NFL as that was infamously done covertly in the dark hours of the night and they didn't get a new team for 15 years. Also the Cardinals have moved twice, first from Chicago to St. Louis, then to AZ. The Dodgers/Giants moves were probably good for the game as they finally expanded past the Mississippi (way past) but those have to be the most famous relocations. I mean aside from the Senators moving to Minnesota of course.

I like this one better. I still like Thorpe in the top 10 though and would push Walker out for him.

Especially considering 4+ WAR hitters like Cespedes, Upton and Davis have yet to sign. Delmon Young too.

Agree with all of these points, particularly the omission of Park and the ABs for Escobar. And Logan Darnell is the #1 non-Perkins lefty in the pen? That doesn't seem likely at all, and as much as I criticize, I don't buy that they are only going to give 55 IP combined to the high ceiling minor league relievers, and Burdi isn't even listed (Meyer, Chargois and Melotakis are listed). There's a half dozen of those guys, a few are going to have to become regular contributors. Good to see Pinto back though. Thought we lost him there for a minute.

I'll bet there have been quite a few people who joined or perused this site through the years simply because they were looking for updates and were excited to see how Miguel Sano was doing. I love following the prospects.

I'm not surprised by Park, only because how to evaluate him is pretty gray. He's not a typical prospect as he's 29, from Korea and most importantly he is assumed to play DH which is going to be a drawback. Of course the only reason he is playing DH instead of 1B is because the Twins already have someone there. I'd still have him 4th but only because the three ahead look pretty special. Also, the Twins only have him for four years as opposed to the six+ for all of the other guys. I also like Gonsalves more than Stewart and Jay at this point. I'll probably like Jay more after we actually see him start. Start and still miss bats that is.

I don't see the Tigers doing that well, I think they are close to being bad, really, really bad. I agree the Twins likely take a step back until the young starters and relievers are relied on full time and get plenty of innings under their belt.