ewen21

No, Carole, those two issues share the same kinds of concerns. How do we find these people jobs, housing, healthcare, etc.....Not sure how you can't see there is a connection. Even Cher does. I did not see it first hand in LA and SF since I have not been to either city in over 10 years. My sister and brother in-law go there because his parents live in Malibu. My sister and her husband are both doctors with degrees from Ivy league schools and are both very moderate. Neither like Trump. Both were stunned at the state of affiars there. I have seen several documentaries on it and the videos of the problem were stark and endless. Both sides of the aisle see the problem The concern comes from the sheer numbers coming in. I suggest you look at Canada's immigration policy. It is a whole lot more stringent and gives merit to those who speak English or French, are educated and have job prospects. Is that wrong or racist?

Wrong, you injected the blame game in this discussion. I am saying the situation is untenable and Bernie Sanders admitted there was a problem as well just about an hour ago. If this continues at the rate it is going you will look back on it a year from now and say that ewen had a point. This isn't about who is to blame. It is about addressing the issue of immigrants trying to rush the border in record numbers.

Nearly 4,000 apprehended for crossing on March 19th alone https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/daily-border-crossings-undocumented-migrants-hit-13-year-highs-n987396 I understand they are desperate. For what other reason would be doing this??? What do we do for them, Carole? HOnestly. Have you seen what LA and SF is looking like these days?

YOu don't know what mass exodus means or you deny there is a problem with the sheer numbers. Please clarify because I honestly am shocked if you answer yes to either.

You live in Oregon, Mike. Do you ever venture down to some of he cities in California? Have you seen what is now going on in Los Angeles and San Francisco? There are tent cities all over the place. We have war veterans having trouble getting the help they need and growing homeless issue in California. How in the world is it we need to add a new burden and find resources for accommodating this mass of humanity coming across the border--over 3,000 strong on some days. Think about that for a minute

I am sorry, but this is part of the 'all or none" postulate adhered to all to often. Did we create SOME of the problems for these countries pertaining to the things your outline? Certainly. On the other hand, do corrupt governments and horrible policing on their part allows this to become an industry? You better believe it. Seems as if you can only point to US as being the culprit in this. We can go on and on about what percentage of the blame either side deserves and how much of the pie should be relegated to "our responsibility" but that isn't even the issue. We can be altruistic about this sitting at our computers far north of where all this occurs (I live in upstate NY), but there is an issue to address at the border Period. This isn't about altruism anymore. It isn't about you or me posturing about being on a moral higher ground. Have you actually tried to grasp the sheer numbers we are talking about here? Have you sought out information from news affiliates near the border who actually report on this stuff from the front? It sure is easy for us to talk as though you are on a morally higher ground from where you sit (I assume up north like me). http://ktar.com/story/2527047/arizonas-immigration-crisis-take-a-tour-along-the-us-mexico-border/ It is not OUR fault this mass exodus is occurring. I suppose a small part of it is owed to us (I grant you that), but you cannot use that as THE REASON. This needs to be brought under control. I guess you don't like the language I use, but I see it as an urgent problem.

Carole, that is not the pertinent issue. Undocumented ones already here are here, as far as I am concerned. With regard to this mass exodus from Mexico and Central America, that is another matter altogether. Would you at least grant me that?

I will simply repeat what I just said in the post you quoted: The ones crossing trying to find asylum that have been detained are in an unfortunate predicament if they came unprepared to go through the process and cannot provide the documentation necessary. We can food, clothe, house and employ every last one; nor can we save them all. There needs to be a recognition of the sheer numbers we are talking about here. More than 1,000 migrants were detained in ONE DAY at the border in El Paso alone. Do you acknowledge that with such a mass exodus we simply cannot accommodate everyone? if so, then where I am wrong?

SABR, I will not quote your last post because of that silly picture. Let's have a discussion without that baloney, OK? The fact that they are seeking asylum, prospecting for gold, have aspirations of opening up a casino, whatever....is immaterial to the fact that people are crossing illegally. Period, end of story. And this is not a single boat floating up from Cuba in 1982. There is a distinction to be made from what is happening here and now as compared to anything else that has happened in the history of our nation. To pretend these immigrants are like others before them is beyond irresponsible. The ones crossing trying to find asylum that have been detained are in an unfortunate predicament if they came unprepared to go through the process and cannot provide the documentation necessary. We cannot food, clothe, house and employ every last one; nor can we save them all. If you want to cling to some utopian ideal that it is our job as America to do that then please do it without ignoring the letter of the law. I am pretty stunned that you would call those crossing the border illegally "asylum seekers". That connotation is an attempt to supplant the fact that they are ILLEGAL. It is so not necessary and such a waste of words.

That you did, my apologies

Ummmm. Yes it is. Relevant to the post I was replying to WHY is it so important to refer to people entering the country illegally (with no intention of being processed because they probably never would be) a problem? Is it too racist? Please. If somehow people from Germany were doing the same thing is large numbers it would demand the same attention. If you don't think so then please tell me why that is.

I highly doubt that people were more informed 100 years ago. Please give me your theory and the data on that one.

OK, in that case let's refer to them as Flower Children. This is, quite frankly, the kind of language that interferes with the substantive issue. What does it matter if they are called illegals? They are crossing the border illegally so the term applies. You want to call them something nicer. OK....now what?? And the "why are you so afraid of immigrants" response completely ignores the fact that we are talking about mass immigration of people illegally crossing the border. In what way is that immigration? It isn't the immigration that is acceptable under the law. Heck....if immigrants come into the country, are processed legally and aren't part of some mass exodus then we have no real problem. To say, "why are you so afraid of immigrants" along with your proposed solution of "processing them more efficiently" only goes to show you do not understand the gravity of the issue we currently face at the border. The people in question are not coming to the border to be processed. They are coming to the border to cross it without being processed. You completely talk around that and it is the entire issue.

Show me where the protests against quotas restricting Italians, Jews and Asians went beyond Italians, Jews and Asians themselves decrying bigotry. To the larger point, they do need to come up with an answer, and they need to now. Trump at least has a policy on the issue and the democrats are blocking it. All the democrats have is anti-Trump rhetoric and no real way of addressing the issue.

I don't like Trump's tactics here, but once again he exposes how insane liberal rhetoric on sanctuary cities and border control can get. The rhetoric seems to be more about demonstrating altruism through rhetoric without offering solutions or acknowledging he issues that arise from such an open policy. Illegals are being detained right now. WHAT is the solution here? Just let them go ANYWHERE?? The response from democrats to Trump's idea to send detained illegals to sanctuary cities really is telling. The response from democrats on this is more about Trump's tactics than it is what they truly believe or the logistical issues. Moreover, democrats are programmed to NEVER agree with anything Trump might present. For example, Corey Booker accidentally admitted mass illegal immigration and relocation of them in sanctuary cities makes us less safe. OK, how does this bit from Booker jibe with the rhetoric that's come from his party? I wish he'd tell that to Beto O'Rourke. The idea that this is a human rights issue or a race is too simplistic and ignores too many other factors. Here is Booker. So what do we do candidate Booker? Do we keep them detained? You really show where you truly stand on this one. Let them in, don't build a wall, but don't come into my district. Real cute stuff. And he isn't the only one This entire discussion on illegals is insane to me. Why are THESE people allowed to circumvent the process? My ancestors from Italy were not. Not only that quotas were instituted against Italy and many other countries after it was deemed too many had come over at once. Nobody screamed and yelled about, nor should they have, in my opinion.

There it is right there. HE keeps on injecting into the discussion so I do not get it when people who don't like hearing the criticism use the "why are we talking about this?" retort. We talk about it because it is an issue that can cause him to be on the shelf for a very long time. He has amassed quite a highlight reel of outfield collisions--beginning with that horrific one in New Britain. With regards to wall collisions, Buxton seems to have it on his brain and that to me is troubling. He put on muscle during the offseason and I felt he needed to do that for a number of reasons, but not one of those reasons was to hold up to the wall collisions better. Whether it is in gest or not, the media and Buxton have referred to that constantly. It's become his trademark and it is a dangerous game to play. Other players made acrobatic catches--Ken Griffey Jr comes to mind--but the way Buxton does it is so much more awkward and violent. If it continues it won't end well and that is a shame because it looks like he is getting his offensive game in order. As mentioned before ...he isn't injured "knock wood"

Just saw the promotion on Buxton and his own teammates had to say "if he's healthy" he is something to see. To say minimize the injrury concern and dismiss it as speaking out of court (vis a vis his style of play) is pretty irresponisble. I want him making great plays, but he doesn't have to be so darn reckless. There are a number of times thus far in his career where he unecessarily crashed into the wall on plays he had literally no chance of making. I cannot praise the effort in those situations.

Very charitable official scoring for Max right there. Bad hop double, I guess

Korver's missive and the original post that launched this thread operate from the same dogma, and that is: White people are responsible for the problems black people face. As far as I can tell, an essential takeaway from Korver's manifesto is that we as white people need to wake up, and shut up and listen because blacks are being crushed by a systemic bias that even the best intentioned whites do not understand. We are all complicit in this whether we know it or not. This suggests to me that there is no solution and that white people are dimwits who never listened to blacks. Speak for yourself, Mr. Korver. Who made you the White Shadow? First of all, I don't need Kyle Korver to tell me to listen to what blacks are saying. As matter of fact, I don't need any woke privileged athlete to tell me about issues of race in America. I have been listening to this recent wave of athletes opining about race, but when I see people who have some of the same questions or comments I raise they don't want to have a dialogue. We are just supposed to nod and listen while they don't listen back. Who are these woke athletes? Well.... Colin Kaepernick wanted everyone to listen about the issue of race and his entire focus was on police brutality. He had the floor to expand on it (and still does) but he said his thing and has gone mute. Be that as it may, while the protest was getting nonstop national attention from the media, FBI data quietly revealed the racial breakdown of homicide offenders in 2016 to be 6,095 blacks for and 5,004 whites (https://ucr.fbi.gov/...ata-table-2.xls) despite the fact that blacks comprise about 12% of the population. This got ZERO play from the mainstream media and the woke sports outlets that discussed the issue nonstop didn't dare touch it. Yet Kaepernick's "bodies in the streets" statement got tons of play. If he wanted to, Kaepernick or other outspoken NFL players could familiarized himself with the numbers the FBI presented and acknowledged the problem goes beyond just the police. It never happened because they don't listen. Kaepernick could have gone on a run with San Francisco police to meet them half way and calm things down (and perhaps work in cooperation with them), but he refused. He wouldn't listen. in spite of what anyone might say, the disproportionate homicide figures supplied by FBI data show police must apprehend more black offenders committing homicide/manslaughter than any other race. This is a statement of fact and it is a piece to the puzzle in the discussion that Kaepernick started.. It is information that can contribute to the dialogue, but no... we can't go there. They just won't hear it. The data somehow implies racism. And yet Kaepernick was able start an aggressive, accusatory campaign directed toward the police because he wanted to "bring attention to the issue of police brutality". He became a symbol for "wokeness" with his anti-police rhetoric. He sure woke me up on the issue. In all my research, another thing never discussed, is that according to an article published by the NY Post police are 18.5 times more likely to be murdered by a black assailant. This statistic is buried in the "you can never see this file".(https://nypost.com/2017/09/26/all-that-kneeling-ignores-the-real-cause-of-soaring-black-homicides/) I will do more research into Heather MacDonald (the person who brought this information forward) But I am curious. Where is any further research/analysis on that figure? I would like to see more research on who kills cops. If those numbers are even halfway representative of reality then why shouldn't it get as much attention in the national media as what Kaerpernck got?? I would welcome anyone to find any further information on that data. I am told to shut and listen..... But I am listening. I was paying attention when Michael Bennett conveyed his story of suffering and brutalization at the hands of Las Vegas police only to be completely disproved by the subsequent video provided from house surveillance. Before the video came out he stood up at the mic in front of the NFL press and wrote a Twitter essay about how he had guns pointed at him for, "doing nothing more than being a black man in the wrong place at the wrong time" According to Korver I needed to shut up and listen . I did with this story, but then the facts came out and a video came out. The best thing about that video is cops went right past dozens of other black patrons completely nullifying Bennett's claim of being "detained for being black" He was detained for not complying when there was supposedly an active shooter in "the club" And by the way, what was all that squealing about? "I wanna be with my kids! I wanna be with my kids!" Seriously? You are at a night club in the wee hours of the morning in Vegas. If you want to be with your kids then what the heck are you doing there? Utterly insane and completely ridiculous, and yet his voice was one that was coming from this "woke" dogma--the same one where Korver is angling to reside.. A voice we are supposed to listen to. Then again, the Bennett scenario could have been an instructive one for all of us: COMPLY if you are innocent! If you do that things don't escalate. To make matters worse, he had no ID! "I'm Michael Bennett, Seattle Seahawks. Look it up" Are you serious? How does a grown man go out clubbing at night with no ID?? Oh. Poor underprivileged Michael Bennett. Please. He totally lied and did so in an attempt to prop up Kaepernick's insane narrative. Shut up and listen, says Korver. I was listening when Tyrelle Pryor got into it with fans in Kansas City and accused some of hurling racial epitaphs at him. I was suspicious because if a fan openly hurls a racial epitaph in an NFL stadium around me I am alerting security. I might even rally up and confront the fan myself. This is one thing ALL WHITE PEOPLE should do (and someone would have had it actually happened) Not surprisingly, Pryor's claims weren't supported by anyone. With all the people in proximity NO ONE picks it up but him?? It's just a bunch of racist whites covering for the hecklers Is that the excuse, or is it maybe because Pryor was mistaken or he simply made it up?? I think it was his way of weaseling out of trouble with the Redskins for his conduct. I was paying attention when Russell Westbrook got into it with a fan in Utah a little over a month ago. He called the fan's taunting racist even though the only real quote he could provide was the fan said "you can get on your knees like you always have" That's not racist. That is an insult to his manhood. Get on your knees, as in: "go blow someone" and yet it got branded to be racist because Westbrook said it was. Korver and his teammates had a big discussion about this in the locker room and not one of them can reveal anything more than what Westbrook claimed to be racist. "Get on your knees" is now racist? Some people are just DYING to identify "racism" (even when it doesn't exist). I listen. I also was listening (reading this thread) when Covington happened. Anyone reading this thread could have plainly seen a couple of kneejerk reactions, but it was all over social media and in the mainstream media in full force. As is the norm, the reaction was very fast, highly accusatory and with no regard for getting all the facts. The "smug look" was all white SJWs needed to hang the kid by his nuts. That takes ZERO courage (even less brains) and accomplishes nothing as far as race relations go. The native American flat out lied and it fits a pattern with him. .A look at the whole picture with the full video and that kid did NOTHING wrong. The group know as "Black Israelites" were by far the most confrontational. Yet the kneejerk reaction against Nick Sandman is the kind of thing people like Korver unwittingly endorses with his manifesto. He's going to play race cop. Oh I'll listen..... I was listening when LeBron James (with the help of scummy TMZ) revealed that a racial epitaph was scrawled on the gate of one of his mansions. LeBron then got up in front of the press all somber and drew an odd parallel to Emmett Till (the young black man brutally murdered by whites in the 1950s south for whistling at a white woman). Couldn't LeBron have looked at the surveillance himself before he went up there to speak to a national audience? Before Shannon Sharpe and other woke voices dominating the sports scene amplified the issue? The funny thing is, the authorities said surveillance cameras would reveal who the perpetrator was, but we never heard thing one after that. Could it be the perp was black and LeBron didn't want us to know? Sort of like what happened on that campus in Kansas when a black vandal scrawled racial graffiti everywhere. Or Jussie Smollett more recently. White people need to wake up and listen, according to Korver. Speak for yourself, white boy. He was in the NBA 16 years and now he is listening? That what he doesn't get. Lots of people are listening and looking deeply into this issue (and have been for years). Some of us actually STUDY it. My only question is can he listen to another perspective or intelligently comment on data that might challenge his view? His presentation was superficial and leaves me with tons of questions. Does he have the capacity to answer a post like this? Is he willing to have a dialogue with someone who questions him multiple times? Do any of these woke athletes have that in them? I say If the issue is that big they can pick the smartest representatives from the woke NFL and NBA to speak about police brutality or systemic racism in congress. Allow them their time on the clock and let them hear the response--without talking over it or shutting it down. Sit there and listen like you're telling me I should do. This is something Korver and other woke athletes need to understand. People are paying attention. Informed, educated people are watching and there are lots of questions that don't get answered by the woke crowd. Any kind of question, concern or fact that is presented is met with dismissiveness or hostility. I posted a 22 minute video of Larry Elder completely dissecting Dave Rubin's (formerly of Young Turks) claim of systemic racism .As a result of his encounter with Elder, he completely changed his approach with facts and assumptions he once made about system racism. Larry Elder has written books about the topic and has lived almost 60 years as a black man in America. I think he is a little more informed on the matter than Leviathan (although I am not sure he'd concede that). Elder is a wealth of knowledge on the issue and certainly a challenge to the cadre of posters brushing off my input. It was not surprising that not one person could bring themselves to respond to comment on the video. Probably because everyone refused to listen. In sum, white people need to lose the superiority complex when it comes to race. This assumption that we as white folks can solve the race problem is completely insane. You guys want to give him an ovation, but Korver just doesn't see it. He is projecting his "white privilege" on EVERYONE. It is a very narrowminded perspective if you ask me. I think he comes from an arrogant, self-serving place and there's no shortage of folks jumping on the bandwagon trying to feel good about making a gesture toward blacks, in support of this missive, like it is some kind of gift. This is not a good gesture. It is patronizing and arrogant and it preaches there is no real solution beyond what we could do for black people. For me, it comes down to personal responsibilities, making the right choices, and having discipline .What the Korver piece suggests is that those things don't matter. Even if blacks abide by those precepts they STILL aren't going to enjoy the kind of success and peace a white person does. That to me is utter garbage. It validates a victim's mentality and it is, quite frankly, a means for keeping black people down. This is why it is refreshing to me to see blacks moving away from this tired refrain. I have to say that NFL and NBA locker rooms are as bad as college campuses. So many radical ideas that get shouted, repeated, blindly accepted and go unchallenged. If you challenge it then they either shout you down, call you names or turn tail and fold up the tent. Speaking to PsuedoSABR about BLM was an eye opener. Those black women shouted down Bernie at his rally. Under no circumstance should it ever be OK for people to take the mic away from a political candidate who paid for the space and time to speak to his constituents. I would be equally as disgusted if a couple of white trash girls stepped up like that to Obama. There is no place for that. But because they were black, SABR ignores and talks about how it is independent thinking and Brock thanked him for it: http://twinsdaily.com/topic/32067-privilege-and-responsibility/?p=832402 Honestly? No acknowledgment of the conduct of those women. Do you really think they are that incapable for following basic rules of decorum that they need to get a pass for that?? Had a couple of white conservative women done that they a) would not have been given the same amount of leeway at that event and would have been ripped to shreds here (and rightly so) And finally.... A five year old child was thrown from the balcony at MOA yesterday. Not a thing has been made about the race of the child or the race of the perp If you do a little bit of clandestine searching you will find that the perp was black and the 5 year old boy clinging to life is white. Had the tables been turned this would be a top news story across the nation and the narrative from it would endure for months. This is what the media does. This is what it is. I simply view it as an unfortunate event, something I don't chalk up to the black race. However, I do find it telling that the story has not gotten bigger coverage. There will be no march for that boy. All lives matter.

For now, I will not respond to anything unless it has to do with the video I posted. Try to suspend the fact that it comes from YouTube and listen to what the speaker has to say. Dissect that if you can

Well, I see you edited your post so what was said is in question. I was responding to THIS: Saying "Being black makes you more violent" (as you have said repeatedly now) is definitionally racist. To say I am incapable of comprehending is more of the same stuff you always do when you get desperate. Please stop. You are trying to call me a racist by putting quotes around something you said. I never said what was in the quotes. According to FBI statistics over the last 7 or 8 years (available online), black commit way WAY more violent crimes than any other group. And your response that is??? "It's a symptom"

I dare anyone whose responded to me to watch this video. Larry Elder completely smokes the stance of systemic racism and he hits on some things I discussed here. He also gets into Black LIves matter and other things we have discussed here. So glad I found this and I am watching it on my TV right now: I'm curious to see what kind of response SABR, Brock, Leviathan, Mr. Brooks, etc....has for what Elder says. However, I will be dollars to donuts none of you guy will get through the entire 22 minutes

More bull. Look up the FBI numbers for murder the last ten years. If you want can post links. They HAVE committed greater than 50% every year and they make up 12% of the population. No about of sophistry or chicanery on your part dismiss the facts. You seem angry that I even presented those numbers. Why? Blacks murdering blacks isn't about them. It's about US! Huh??

Jason Whitlock clapped back hard on Korver. Good for him.

Bull Leviathan. Look at crime stats from 50, 60 years ago. The black crime rate then was nothing compared to now. Blaming this condition of crime and violence on slavery doesn't work. Oh that's right. It must be "white privilege"! Please. Plenty of blame must be assigned to cultural factors within the black community. I know Kyle Korver doesn't want to hear it. I know you don't want to hear it..... But if you are calling black on black murder a symptom leftover from slavery you are being equal parts ignorant and arrogant. I'm not exactly sure why blacks kill people at a much higher rate, but I do believe them being killed by police at a higher rate than whites has to do with their greater propensity for violence and physical confrontations. Makes a whole lot more sense than you saying slavery made them murder a rival gang member.