diehardtwinsfan

Only issue with a guy like Schwartz is that you're in the same situation that pure hitters like Schwarber and Bryce Harper were in. The bats were ready well before the glove and they forced them to move off of catching to accommodate. I think the hope right now is that there is a clear BPA and that BPA is a college pitcher with ace upside... That's the hope at least. The other hope is that you might get said player a mil or two under slot so they can get some higher ceiling HS guys in the later rounds, but I think more than anything that this is a secondary objective, as a clear cut BPA can certainly ask for slot.

Baring some sort of scenario where the Twins manage to win the next 8, the Braves lose the next 8, and win the tie breaker, we'll be picking first overall for the first time since 2001 when we drafted some kid named Mauer. It's the Twins, so hoping for a once a generational type talent is probably asking too much, as the baseball gods clearly hate us.. Looking at the early results won't say much. There will be tons of movement. Given the org's pitching needs, it might be nice to see some outstanding seasons from a college pitching or catching prospect. A college pitcher in particular could suddenly make the rotation interesting in a hurry. Here are some names to view: http://m.mlb.com/news/article/183854586/a-look-ahead-to-2017-mlb-draft-class/ http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2645674-2017-mlb-mock-draft-early-predictions-for-top-1st-round-baseball-prospects Discuss.

Ryan's inaction... Let's see... traded for Meyer, May, and Worley. Signed Hughes, Nolasco, and Santana... yep.. inaction. and that's before we talk about scrap heap guys like Pelf. He made a lot of mistakes, and not for a lack of action. If you want to define action is taking concrete actions to fix mistakes, I'll give you that, but that isn't what you said earlier. Doing something for the sake of doing something is about the surest way to make sure things get worse. You have to actually identify the problem first... then you can fix it.

wow, that's beer league softball kind of mistakes there.

Sorry, this isn't true at all, especially when you consider that there are successful entrepreneurs and unsuccessful ones all of which took action. Making mistakes can cause failure... but true failure is failing to recognize them and learn from them. Sometimes, not taking action is the right answer. Sometimes it isn't. I won't argue with you when you say that TR wasn't one to take much action... there's some truth to that... but that doesn't make it the answer to the Twins problem currently. The new GM could take lots of action and do it all wrong. Sadly, it can almost always get worse. I just don't want to see action for the sake of action. I want to see action targeted at fixing specific problems.

Perhaps a Saints Twins game at TF is the in works? Think of the marketing there... and the Twins still give up 10 runs.

Again, this is what irks me about this debate. I get that you know people that lack the self control. I know them too. I also know plenty where it isn't nearly that simple. It's really easy to simply say 'so and so lacks self control' and call them fat... But they are hardly all the case. As I said previously. I ran a marathon at 235 pounds (I'm not a tall guy). During training, I went on a pretty strict diet and ended up with nothing to show for it. I couldn't break below that floor, and when winter came and I was exercising less I ballooned up fast, and it's a cycle I had been repeating for years with each year having a new (higher) floor that I could never break through. As well, I have that same frame (minus the height), and at 0% body fat, I'm over weight by BMI (I've been tested). You can have all the discipline in the world and be doing it wrong due to simple things like body chemistry or medical issues, and I can find plenty of examples like that in my life as well. but at 23 and a professional athlete, I highly doubt that's Sano's problem is discipline. Perhaps he's lazy and eats at McDonalds every day, but I doubt that. Even if he does, at that age, a person's metabolism can make up for a crap ton of bad habits, especially considering that he gets more exercise than the average 23 year old. Every one of us can look at our past and see that. If he's got a weight issue, there's likely something else going on, and if he's really struggling to lose weight, I highly doubt it's a discipline problem. You're right that it will likely present a career limiting move at some point, especially if he continues to gain weight. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that his problem is his enablers continuing to stuff food in front of his face or the complete inability to turn it down.

I tend to get a bit annoyed with some of this as losing weight is much easier for some than others. I don't know how hard Sano tried (perhaps he did, perhaps he didn't) last offseason, but if he's got the wrong body chemistry, it won't come easy...and I'm living proof of that. If I could lose weight while training for a marathon and eating 1200 calorie nutrisystem diets, then I think there's something else there (in my case, there was). Whether that's Sano or not, I don't know. What I do know is that he does not look out of shape. He's got a pretty massive frame and that man will (by most metrics) be overweight if he was nothing but skin and bone. That said, I do hope he commits to his defense. I really don't care if he's only 5-10 pounds lighter this spring, but I want to see someone that moves from awful defensively to simply below average. That may save a few runs over the course of the season.

Honestly, this is another head scratching data point about a guy who can be so dominant in AAA but cannot seem to have anything more than short stretches of good play at MLB. Do keep in mind he wasn't bad through the first half of the year. I have to think that there's something going on at the coaching side of things. We shouldn't be redeveloping our players at the top level, and it sure seems like that's what we're doing (whether it's true or not, I don't know... but the perception certainly fits).

We've already got an all glove SS in the minors... I'd rather go for upside if they are replacing Escobar (and I'm perfectly fine running him out there next season). Something though needs to be done on the pitching side of things.

I was going to say McCloud/Bloom, but I'd be pretty thrilled here too.

I'd like to comment on this a bit. I think we've all seen WOW moves at the deadline... and we've seen MEH moves at the deadline. We can say the same for winter moves. It's all about supply and demand. Granted there's an incentive midseason to keep up with the Jones' and show your fan base that you're all in, but I don't think the premium exists just because it's a deadline. It exists because you have something that everyone wants at the deadline, and in that scenario, they may pay more to get it. But to that point, we know the Twins were willing to trade him, and we know the Jays backed out essentially killing the deal. I think the Twins were quite willing to part with him in July for said premium. I'm not certain they couldn't get a similar deal come December. The question on Santana is whether or not he will have the same value he has this winter come next June. There's a lot of risk the team is going to swallow there, including a well documented UCL issue in his throwing elbow. Given the risk with pitchers that doesn't exist with hitters, I'd note that risking waiting beyond this winter isn't quite the same with Erv than it would be with a hitter like Park or Vargas. Not sure if that changes things, as I wouldn't move him for a less than stellar deal, but it does make shopping Ervin this winter a very reasonable option.

Just a moderator note, but let's try and cut down on the tension here. There's a lot of good conversation in this thread that is being overshadowed by it. Thanks.

I don't get the dislike of Tonkin. he's spent 1 year in the pen minus a few Chargois type opportunities over the last few seasons. The Ks are there, as are the minor league results. I'd give him more than this year to work things out... If it comes to the point where he's blocking someone, then yes... but we aren't there yet.

Anyways, I'd go youth. Pressley, Tonkin, Chargois, and Rogers for sure. Maybe Kintzler as a place holder, but I'm definitely leaving room for guys like Light, Burdi, Hildenberger, Melotakis, etc. if one or two of them is lighting up AAA. Not putting much faith in Perkins/Hughes given their injuries. May not hurt to have one of those guys around as I do believe that veteran presence means something, but I certainly wouldn't hand them a spot over a deserving kid. Problem with Hughes though is that he's under contract for 3 more years. It's a bit easier to dump Perkins on the last year of his deal, but I can certainly understand if management wants to keep Hughes around.

So Santana and pray for rain right now... ouch. I think that gives more impetus on moving on from BD (below average defender) though it hurts the offense pretty bad given that BD is probably 50% of our offense (not quite, but you get the exaggeration)... Definitely makes acquiring pitching a priority. Berrios seems to have talent to get there some day, but I think patience is warranted. Sadly, short of Sano at 3B and possibly a corner spot, this team (without BD) should be solidly above average... They need some pitching.

I'm going to guess that for CERA to be accurate it needs not only a multiple season sample, but a multi-season sample across the same pitchers. Don't get me wrong, I suspect that it factors in some way, but quantifying it is what is difficult here.

Look, I like Vargas. I've said earlier that I want the bulk of 1B/DH time to be Vargas and Park... But Vargas put up a .626 OPS last season in 175 at bats. That's a bad season and certainly worthy of demotion for a DH/1B type, not a bad game. Now, should the Twins have been more patient with him? Perhaps, but let's not forget that they were actually winning games and they replaced him with some kid Sano. I won't fault them too much with how they handled Vargas last season, and I do think he should be penciled in as the starting DH in 2017, but let's not re-write history.

Couple things on Santana. 2 years left and probably as high of a value as you can have, so yes, if you get a good deal, shop him.He's not going to get major league ready high upside pitching. Any team with major league ready high upside pitching is far more likely to role with such pitching in their 5 spot than to trade it and more for Santana.He might get you that catcher you want.If he nets pitching, think guys who just completed some level of A ball (either high or low).Dozier could get you a pitcher you want, but probably only one that would be ready to start next spring.

No to Santiago. Strong no. I'm fine with Santana (not against a trade there either). Berrios needs to figure out major league pitching, so I'm fine with those growing pains too. Gibson probably deserves one more chance to figure things out, but this would be a make or break year for him. Baring a trade, I'd want May, Duffey, and Mejia to compete for the 4 and 5 spots. At least there's some upside with most of those guys. Don't expect it to just happen in 2017, but I do think that over the season they could improve on what we had this year.

Agreed, but Trout is still above average in that aspect... and then you add the bat. I think Trout should get it, and yeah, I'd give it to a guy like Trout over Cabrera any day. Cabrera is essentially a DH... I don't have a problem with a DH winning it, but he's got to be Barry Bonds steroid era with the bat to do so.

Vargas was pretty bad last year, so having Park as a backup plan doesn't really change his value much. He never really had value at the end of 2015. That said, he's reclaimed a bit of it, but now there's a real problem in that Park and Vargas deserve more PT than Mauer (though for different reasons). I'll never fault the Twins for adding talent, even if (as I said early on in the Park thread) it doesn't make a ton of sense given the org needs. That said, the real issue now is that based on what I've seen of Park and Vargas, Mauer is the odd man out, and I don't see that happening in reality, even with a new regime.

I really cannot argue with anything said in the article. Not sure if Duffey will survive as a starter, but I think given the derth of upside options there, they should keep that going for now.

Not sure what to say there. Glasnow has had more major league success than Meyer ever had, and he's 23. I'd trade Dozier to the pirates if they were willing to offer up Glasnow as the center piece, and I wouldn't think twice about it.

I've got to think you'd want a higher ceiling starter like Justus Sheffield. Just my 2 cents.